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NEW Pirate Station!!!

busyradioguy said:
Well I was looking at this from what I know about the Mesquite School's station. When they were on 88.3, I believe the ERP was 3.0 kW, on a stick about 180 feet in the air (approx guess). Their ERP is now 61.0 kW on a stick that's about 514 feet. I doubt they could get 61.0 kW from an xmtr putting out barely enough TPO to equal 3.0 kW ERP at 180 feet, especially if the TX had a TPO of say 2.5 kW max..

Maybe I am forgetting that their coverage area probably increased with the move to 88.5. That must be it. :)

Their move was an UPgrade.....and yes they did increase ERP and likely went with a new xmtr as well....oh yeah, their coverage is a good distance for their class...I have heard KEOM down I45 to Huntsville (none of the Cedar Hill signals were making it though it could have been ducting with their antenna at the right height and CH was too high and out of the duct) BUT thanks to a new religious station north of Conroe on 88.3 and another in Crockett on 88.5, they dont make it as far as they used to. They better hurry and upgrade to full C1 status or else they will be locked in....C1 is allowed 100KW at 451m.....but as more stations sign on they may find themselves being locked and downgraded at where they are...(of course the Non-comm band spaces stations on actual contour and not predicted 1mV max protected contours..sorta makes the classifications worthless down there!)
 
CW said:
I never trust religious groups on broadcast anyway...most of them bend the rules more than the commercial ops!


I couldn't agree more
 
tested said:
There is little chance they're actually picking that station up over the air in Garland either since it is only in the CP stage. (look here: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?list=0&facid=173765 ) Once it gets on the air, they might be able to get it in Garland with a really good antenna.

The translator is translating KXVI not KKVI. I'd be curious to see if anyone in Overland is actually picking up KXVI on the original frequency. If not, that's a rule violation right there. And I'm sure if I dug enough, I could find more.

CW, I'm not an expert on translator rules... I thought they were supposed to help improve a station inside its contour... not in a totally different market (which this is, for all practical purposes). Can they have the translator spaced as far as it is from the originating 68 watt station? (regardless of the "they must receive it over the air" part)
 
eas_test said:
tested said:
There is little chance they're actually picking that station up over the air in Garland either since it is only in the CP stage. (look here: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?list=0&facid=173765 ) Once it gets on the air, they might be able to get it in Garland with a really good antenna.

The translator is translating KXVI not KKVI. I'd be curious to see if anyone in Overland is actually picking up KXVI on the original frequency. If not, that's a rule violation right there. And I'm sure if I dug enough, I could find more.

CW, I'm not an expert on translator rules... I thought they were supposed to help improve a station inside its contour... not in a totally different market (which this is, for all practical purposes). Can they have the translator spaced as far as it is from the originating 68 watt station? (regardless of the "they must receive it over the air" part)

If I recall, the rules are different for commercial and non-commercial outlets. For non-coms, translators can be used to extend coverage. KERA-FM 90.1 has translators in Wichita Falls, Sherman/Denison, and Tyler, for example. The difference here is the 88.3 translator in Wichita Falls is relaying KERA-FM's content; it's not broadcasting as "KERA 88.3 Wichita Falls" with programming originated in and for Wichita Falls.
 
txchipk said:
If I recall, the rules are different for commercial and non-commercial outlets. For non-coms, translators can be used to extend coverage. KERA-FM 90.1 has translators in Wichita Falls, Sherman/Denison, and Tyler, for example. The difference here is the 88.3 translator in Wichita Falls is relaying KERA-FM's content; it's not broadcasting as "KERA 88.3 Wichita Falls" with programming originated in and for Wichita Falls.

So if they're selling spots as opposed to underwriting, that's not technically a non-comm, right? I'm not sure how to prove the difference.
 
txchipk said:
eas_test said:
tested said:
There is little chance they're actually picking that station up over the air in Garland either since it is only in the CP stage. (look here: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?list=0&facid=173765 ) Once it gets on the air, they might be able to get it in Garland with a really good antenna.

The translator is translating KXVI not KKVI. I'd be curious to see if anyone in Overland is actually picking up KXVI on the original frequency. If not, that's a rule violation right there. And I'm sure if I dug enough, I could find more.

CW, I'm not an expert on translator rules... I thought they were supposed to help improve a station inside its contour... not in a totally different market (which this is, for all practical purposes). Can they have the translator spaced as far as it is from the originating 68 watt station? (regardless of the "they must receive it over the air" part)

If I recall, the rules are different for commercial and non-commercial outlets. For non-coms, translators can be used to extend coverage. KERA-FM 90.1 has translators in Wichita Falls, Sherman/Denison, and Tyler, for example. The difference here is the 88.3 translator in Wichita Falls is relaying KERA-FM's content; it's not broadcasting as "KERA 88.3 Wichita Falls" with programming originated in and for Wichita Falls.

True for Non-comms, a xlator can be used to expand the coverage (something I dont agree with; how many sat fed translators from AFR or AFA are taking legit local channels away or causing adj channel blocking for stations just down the road; hell I know one AFR station that has TWO commercial band xlators within its CITY grade contour...as if they need them!) regardless as to who owns the xlator.

As for commercial translators, they can be used for both BUT if the primary station or its owner owns the xlator, it cannot extend the 1mV contour.....IF SOMEONE else with NO connection owns the xlator, then it can be used for any extension of coverage, etc...There used to be one on the N side of Houston (north of Conroe actually) that was rebroadcasting KASE 101FM from Austin and it was injecting local ads once an hour...right in the middle of music too! Turns out the guy who owned it also had others around E TX originally rebroadcasting KZZB 95.1 out of Beaumont with cue tones used to fire the local inserts..but then he severed ties with B95 and some of his xlators went to other stations with NO cue tones...yuk!!!
Non-comm primary stations can use sat, microwave, etc to feed the xlators in the reserved band (88-92)....any xlator above 92.0 MHz MUST be fed by off air reception...regardless of the primary station
(but dont tell that to CC Beaumont...they have a 103.3 translator at the studio that is merely fed composite from the processor for 104.5...if 104.5 goes off the air, 103.3 DOESNT! hmmmmmph!!
I hear CC plans to FINALLY upgrade 104.5 to full C1 and diplex into sister 106.1 KIOC's antenna...thus making the xlator no longer needed.....about frickin time!)
PROBLEM I have with 99% of noncomm xlators, show me one that will go OFF the air when its primary does....MOST like AFR's or AFA's use a primary station in MS or CA...but I'll bet ya $100 that is doesnt go off the air when the primary FM is off the air...ARE YOU KIDDING?? WE MIGHT LOSE LISTENERS and that means MONEY and loss of income if they dont donate!!! (ahhh oh and they may never convert to our way of Christianity too! :)
 
eas_test said:
txchipk said:
If I recall, the rules are different for commercial and non-commercial outlets. For non-coms, translators can be used to extend coverage. KERA-FM 90.1 has translators in Wichita Falls, Sherman/Denison, and Tyler, for example. The difference here is the 88.3 translator in Wichita Falls is relaying KERA-FM's content; it's not broadcasting as "KERA 88.3 Wichita Falls" with programming originated in and for Wichita Falls.

So if they're selling spots as opposed to underwriting, that's not technically a non-comm, right? I'm not sure how to prove the difference.

IF they are selling ads, they are in violation of non-profit rules....period! Easy to prove....if the "spot" runs and sounds like a typical commercial than a one or two liner "underwriting" announcement, then its illegal.......The FCC has recently hit a couple of LPFMs for doing that...Livingston TX has a LPFM on 96.1 that runs ADs with Big Daddy and Little Jimmy (or something like that) talking about the local John Deere dealership and giving out their number, etc...THATs a SPOT!...yes the FCC already knows about them.....they will get busted soon enough)
 
CW said:
IF they are selling ads, they are in violation of non-profit rules....period! Easy to prove....if the "spot" runs and sounds like a typical commercial than a one or two liner "underwriting" announcement, then its illegal.......The FCC has recently hit a couple of LPFMs for doing that...Livingston TX has a LPFM on 96.1 that runs ADs with Big Daddy and Little Jimmy (or something like that) talking about the local John Deere dealership and giving out their number, etc...THATs a SPOT!...yes the FCC already knows about them.....they will get busted soon enough)

See here: http://www.kxvi.net/adv-rates.php You decide. (I have yet to hear the actual station's ads on air. I know several folks on here have. Do they sound like normal commercials?
 
eas_test said:
The translator is translating KXVI not KKVI. I'd be curious to see if anyone in Overland is actually picking up KXVI on the original frequency. If not, that's a rule violation right there. And I'm sure if I dug enough, I could find more.

The station ID mentions KKVI and K240DS. It does not mention KXVI. The FCC file says it's a translator of KKVI.

As near as I can figure it, "KXVI" is a branding name like "The Bridge 91." Basically, this station has way too many names on the air.

I don't know what's airing on KXVI in Winfield, but it sounds like the whole thing is designed to be a network of stations airing the same programming.
Regardless, the whole thing seems like it's not being done right.
 
tested said:
eas_test said:
The translator is translating KXVI not KKVI. I'd be curious to see if anyone in Overland is actually picking up KXVI on the original frequency. If not, that's a rule violation right there. And I'm sure if I dug enough, I could find more.

The station ID mentions KKVI and K240DS. It does not mention KXVI. The FCC file says it's a translator of KKVI.

As near as I can figure it, "KXVI" is a branding name like "The Bridge 91." Basically, this station has way too many names on the air.

I don't know what's airing on KXVI in Winfield, but it sounds like the whole thing is designed to be a network of stations airing the same programming.
Regardless, the whole thing seems like it's not being done right.

Problem is once a xlator is licensed, it can change whatever station it is retransmitting without notifying the FCC (nice loophole huh)!! BuT they show 95.9 as KXVI, NOT the LPFM!! AND I LOVE how they showed their coverage...they show the map from Radio-Locator.com....ahhhh isnt that a copyrighted site and their maps are hence copyrighted?? I dont think they can do that with acknowledging RL.com......AND their web site definitely shows ADs not "underwriting".....Hope the Dallas FCC busts these guys soon...I see a $10K fine coming and maybe revocation...another thorn in my side (NO pun intended) about "religious" broadcasters....who think they are ABOVE the law (remember Dr Gene Scott and his TV stations??)
 
CW said:
IF they are selling ads, they are in violation of non-profit rules....period! Easy to prove....if the "spot" runs and sounds like a typical commercial than a one or two liner "underwriting" announcement, then its illegal.......The FCC has recently hit a couple of LPFMs for doing that...Livingston TX has a LPFM on 96.1 that runs ADs with Big Daddy and Little Jimmy (or something like that) talking about the local John Deere dealership and giving out their number, etc...THATs a SPOT!...yes the FCC already knows about them.....they will get busted soon enough)

I'm not trying to defend anyone, but in the 1980’s, the FCC loosened the underwriting rules and approved "Enhanced Underwriting." An Enhanced Underwriting Announcement can sound very much like a commercial message. The main differences between these spots and a true commercial are: It may make no qualitative or comparative statements, it may not mention price (free is a price) and it can't contain a call to action. You may not run an announcement that contains an inducement to buy, sell, rent or invest. For instance, you couldn’t say “Stop by our showroom…” or “Try new amazing Product X.” On the other hand, it is OK to use logos or slogans that identify the product, but do not promote it. You may also mention brand names or trade names, and you may make value neutral descriptions of a product or service.

It is perfectly alright to identify the business, state what they do, give their address, phone number, business hours, etc. These "Enhanced" spots can and do sound very much like commercials, but they are allowed under current FCC rules. A creative writer can do some amazing things within those parameters. The big trick is to avoid the "promotional” problem. It is easy to go overboard.

Further, for the spot to be a commercial, the station in question must receive some form of compensation for running it. Compensation can be in forms other than cash. Trade outs and other consideration qualify as compensation. If the station is truly uncompensated, then anything goes. It is hard to imagine such a situation, but I suppose it could happen.

It is also OK to run spots that do not adhere to enhanced underwriting guidelines if they are for other noncommercial ventures, even though you are compensated for running them. Examples of this could include Arts Festivals, Civic Theater, the local Symphony, Colleges, Schools, Churches and other organizations that enjoy 501(c)(3) status. Some of the religious broadcasters use that loophole to market autographed copies of the Bible, CD's, books, concert tickets and numerous other fund raising activities that usually benefit their parent organization.

Do some stations abuse the rules? You bet. It seems to be very common. Some of the abuses are truly unintentional, while other stations make it a constant habit to push the limits. I heard one NCE running a car dealer spot that was touting "No money down and 0% interest.” That is a clear violation. Several stations been busted for this. Even very respectable stations like KERA-TV push the envelope from time to time. Watch some of the car spots PBS runs, and you will note that they are identical to the low key spots you see on commercial TV, except there is no dealer billboard at the end.

The FCC’s rules on Underwriting are very vague, leaving a lot to the station’s management for interpretation. That is part of the problem. The rules can be confusing for the broadcaster as well as to everyone else. In fact, the rules state, “…the Commission will continue to rely on the good faith determinations of public broadcasters in interpreting our noncommercialization guidelines.”
 
You are allowed to mention the value of the product, under some circumstances. For example, You can say, "After the next score in the game by either team, be caller # so-and-so, and you'll win $20.00 cash from company X".
 
busyradioguy said:
You are allowed to mention the value of the product, under some circumstances. For example, You can say, "After the next score in the game by either team, be caller # so-and-so, and you'll win $20.00 cash from company X".

I guess you could, but I sure wouldn't. It is very easy to cross the line by running a contest. What educational purpose does it serve? It certainly sounds promotional to me. I'm sure some stations do it, but I believe that is very risky behavior in the NCE world.

In a proper underwriting announcement, there can be no mention of price. There are two exceptions to that. One is if it is a PSA (no compensation) then it is OK to mention price. This might be for admission to a community theater, concert or other event sponsored by a noncommercial entity. The other exception is if the underwriting sponsor is a non-commercial entity. They can pay and you can mention price.

The best policy for any NCE station is to never mention price, regardless of the various loop-holes. If you do, you run the risk of having a paying for-profit underwriter complain that “You did it for someone else." It takes a lot less explaining if you simply don't do it.
 
I wonder if the folks running this station are reading this board. Last night I heard them clearly identify the station as KKVI Overland - now also on 95.9 in Garland. They had another announcement saying "The Bridge 91 is now KKVI Overland" etc. I even think they said something about no longer being part of KXVI or the KXVI website would be changing soon to KKVI.

Either the station in Overland is now on the air (who knows?) or they got scared and decided to try to make it look like they're really broadcasting from KKVI instead of Garland.
 
Either way, there is NO way they can be picking up Overton in Garland with a decent signal for retransmit......You canna change the laws of physics ;)
 
CW said:
Either way, there is NO way they can be picking up Overton in Garland with a decent signal for retransmit......You canna change the laws of physics ;)

It makes you wonder if anyone at the FCC is equipped with a map.....
 
gospeldan said:
Actually this station is ran from downtown Garland, Texas broadcasting from a tower near Lake Ray Hubbard. It relays all its programing by Internet feed to its transmitters in Overland, Texas and Garland, Texas. It is fully licensed by the FCC as low power stations.

Hmmm I just happened to re-read the first page of this. I remember gospeldan from the previous thread several years ago about this station - and I do believe he said he worked there at the time. If what he says is true, the station in Overland gets fed via internet (no problem there) but the Garland translator does ALSO. That's not legal.
 
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