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New PPMs

Another monthly set of numbers are posted...

Of course, the 6+ numbers don't mean anything in terms of selling time, but it looks like the new WBAP-FM debuted with a 1.3. The combined WBAP/WBAP-FM would make it #2 overall (5.2 from a 4.4 on WBAP by itself the month before). It will be interesting to see if they did pull in some additional 25-54 numbers with the new FM.

KRLD-FM fell behind KESN again. One would assume the M25-54 numbers would mirror the direction of the overalls. For the 6+ numbers, KRLD-FM has gone 1.7-1.2-1.0 now since the start of the year. Interestingly, the KTCK on-line stream showed up with a 0.3 (not shown on the radio-info listings, but shown in the allaccess.com ones).
 
What does this mean? KRLD-FM sounds solid lately...more than ESPN-FM
What we 1310's ratings?
 
txchipk said:
Of course, the 6+ numbers don't mean anything in terms of selling time, but it looks like the new WBAP-FM debuted with a 1.3. The combined WBAP/WBAP-FM would make it #2 overall (5.2 from a 4.4 on WBAP by itself the month before). It will be interesting to see if they did pull in some additional 25-54 numbers with the new FM.

I don't recall the date when Platinum became an 820 simulcast began, but I recall it was around the 12th or 13th of March. So the "book" includes part of both formats, and is, thus the AM and the FM are listed separately. I would imagine that, like just about every other full simulcast, in April it will be combined with the AM under single line reporting, and the separate numbers will not be available.
 
Why is CBS clinging to The Fan? It is obvious that nobody is listening... 105.3 = crap. They could probably broadcast cricket sounds and get better ratings. I would be very interested to see how the PPMs have "improved" since they canned Mondo & Dean. Wake me when it's over. ::)
 
jeffdfw said:
Why is CBS clinging to The Fan? It is obvious that nobody is listening... 105.3 = crap. They could probably broadcast cricket sounds and get better ratings. I would be very interested to see how the PPMs have "improved" since they canned Mondo & Dean. Wake me when it's over. ::)

I think it's time for "Gen-X Radio 105.3".
 
charles123 said:
jeffdfw said:
Why is CBS clinging to The Fan? It is obvious that nobody is listening... 105.3 = crap. They could probably broadcast cricket sounds and get better ratings. I would be very interested to see how the PPMs have "improved" since they canned Mondo & Dean. Wake me when it's over. ::)

I think it's time for "Gen-X Radio 105.3".

Second that.
 
I can't wait to see the breakdown on this.

I've actually made an effort to try the new shows and hosting combos and to my ear, the station is getting worse, not better. Once upon a time, I could sit through 10 minutes of Jaggar before hitting the button for the gentle musers or KERA. In two attempts this week, I didn't get past 4 minutes.
 
jeffdfw said:
The little Ticket is a ratings monster!

Men 25-54...

Numbers for Monday-Friday 6 am to 7 pm:

Ticket: 8.1 (No. 1 among all stations in the market) :eek:
ESPN 103.3: 2.2 (No. 20) ::)
The Fan 105.3: 1.7 (No. 24) :D

What do you think KTCK would pull if it were on a full-market FM? Would we have anything like the astounding numbers that WTOP draws in DC since they moved from 1500 kHz to 103.5 MHz?
 
jeffdfw said:
The little Ticket is a ratings monster!

Men 25-54...

Numbers for Monday-Friday 6 am to 7 pm:

Ticket: 8.1 (No. 1 among all stations in the market) :eek:
ESPN 103.3: 2.2 (No. 20) ::)
The Fan 105.3: 1.7 (No. 24) :D

http://sportsmediablog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/04/radio-daze-march-numbers-are-i.html

So looking back at the January 2009 numbers in the same demo, the Fan has grown from a 1.4 to a 1.7. Yup, a whole .3 growth in after 14 months of hard work and constant retooling.

I guess CBS gets the St. Jude award. They love them some lost causes.

Since I don't work in radio, can someone explain to me how this works. Over a year and a few million dollars later, the Fan is a disaster- and yet CBS radio continues to plow more money and give more time toward and obviously failed experiment. Is there no one in the company with enough sense to cut their loses and move on? Or is radio far more profitable than we are lead to believe such that CBS can keep a dismal failure on air because their sister stations rake in enough cash to make it all balance out?

Because as an outsider, I gotta tell you this whole scenario with the Fan looks like a blunder of epic proportions.
 
I wish CBS would buy The Ticket, that way The Ticket could be treated like the kings they are. Put money into a product and you'll make it back ten fold. They might be winning the ratings, but put them on a strong FM station and they are bound to make someone tons of money. When it all comes down to it, it's all about money.
 
T4 In Rockwall said:
I wish CBS would buy The Ticket, that way The Ticket could be treated like the kings they are. Put money into a product and you'll make it back ten fold. They might be winning the ratings, but put them on a strong FM station and they are bound to make someone tons of money. When it all comes down to it, it's all about money.

No, no, no, no, never, never, never. never!

If CBS had owned the Ticket a few years back when the Greggo situation blew up, they would have fired Greggo, flipped the format, and tanked the whole damn thing.

The Ticket is better off with a dispassionate owner who will be a tad neglectful, but also leave them the heck alone and just enjoyed the money rolling in.
 
105.3 should flip to Indie-Verse (that thing on the 105.3's HD2 signal). It can't hurt...
 
The big story I see here is that K-104 is about to drop out of the Top 10, first time since 1994 and only the second time since 1977!! I know, we're talking 6+ and not specific demos, but that Top 10 consistency of almost 33 years is based on 12+ numbers. Maybe this explains all the 'out-with-the-old, in-with-the-new' that Hyman is doing over there. Whether you're a fan of Ken Dowe or Michael Spears, those guys (along with fellow white boy Hyman) kept the momentum going for most of four decades.

So what's the deal? Erosion of listeners due to age? (They all grew up, or 'outgrew' the music and imaging?) Is it the format? (Has the rap/hip-hop audience eroded as well, and/or moving towards more mainstream AC/Urban? Are listeners tired of the hate?) Is the black listenership in general eroding, by not bearing enough children to keep the # of available potential listeners high? (And that's not some sort of racial jab; 'white America' is dealing with the same thing. And don't look to 97.9 to find the missing audience; they're suffering as well.) Or is this 18-34 crowd consumed with their iPods? Should KKDA consider becoming what 100.3 Jamz was, a station that crossed ethnic lines, played more pop crossover, and was more community-oriented? Or is Hyman or his new GM just out of touch? Someone else can quote the national trends to tell us if any of this is the case; I don't know. I'd also like to see what the size of the industry "pie" looks like today...what's considered the total amount of people in the 18-34 demo that listen to radio? Vs 5 yrs ago, 10 yrs ago, etc.

I know for me, I used to listen to K-104 pretty relentlessly from 1977-83. There was a lot of crossover pop/R&B hits being played, anything 'rap' was the early and 'safe' stuff like Sugar Hill Gang, Kurtis Blow, etc. There was a flow to it, the jocks were there but didn't get in the way or have an agenda...it was basically an R&B version of KVIL or KNUS then. Now (and consider I'm older and more dedicated to the music of my youth,) I find K-104 completely unlistenable. Rap and hip-hop irritate me, as well as any songs that are "Featuring (whoever)" or artists who have numbers and slang instead of real names. What I DO hear of K-104 seems like a marketing blitz, much like Disney and Kiss-FM do to promote certain artists ad nauseum, or is 104 just "narrowcasting" and running off the bulk of their potential, mainstream listeners?

As for Hyman Childs, he should have taken everyone's advice and sold K-104 5 years ago. It was still worth $70-80 mil then. With today's depressed radio market and the depressed future of the industry, AND with his ratings finally taking a dive, Hy would be very lucky to get ANY kind of offer, let alone something even in the $25 mil range.

And one day, common people will actually be able to afford to buy radio stations. (That's the same day that the meek will inherit the earth, or when Hell freezes over, or when Letterman goes back to work for NBC.)
 
MikeShannon914 said:
So what's the deal? Erosion of listeners due to age? (They all grew up, or 'outgrew' the music and imaging?) Is it the format? (Has the rap/hip-hop audience eroded as well, and/or moving towards more mainstream AC/Urban?
2 things- the market is much more hispanic then it used to be. Look at those 6+ ratings, KLNO has a 4.3, KBOC a 2.6, KNOR a 2.4, and there's another close to 10 shares spread through another 6-8 "Spanish" stations. That's almost 20% of the market that was someplace else 5-10, 20 years ago.
#2-Add in another CHR, and they just have more competition. I93 has a 1.6. That audience has to be coming from somewhere-


Are listeners tired of the hate?) Is the black listenership in general eroding, by not bearing enough children to keep the # of available potential listeners high? (And that's not some sort of racial jab; 'white America' is dealing with the same thing.
Yep, either due to migration, immigration, higher birth rates, what have you, the hispanic audeince is getting bigger. If the urban audience is just staying the same, they're losing ground as a total % of the market.

Now (and consider I'm older and more dedicated to the music of my youth,) I find K-104 completely unlistenable. Rap and hip-hop irritate me, as well as any songs that are "Featuring (whoever)" or artists who have numbers and slang instead of real names.
Gee, a 40-something year old white guy can't relate to the music on an urban station. Who ever would of thought that?

As for Hyman Childs, he should have taken everyone's advice and sold K-104 5 years ago. It was still worth $70-80 mil then. With today's depressed radio market and the depressed future of the industry, AND with his ratings finally taking a dive, Hy would be very lucky to get ANY kind of offer, let alone something even in the $25 mil range.
Do you have ANY experience in selling or valuing radio stations, or are you pulling figures out of your rear-end. I just found a place http://www.radio4sale.com/forsale.php that has a station for sale for 9x trailing BCF (broadcast cash flow, in case you didn't know)...Do you have any idea what KKDA's BCF is? What multiples stations in this market are selling for? Do you have ANYTHING at all to base that figure on?

(and yes, you ARE entitled to your opinion. But some of us actually base our opinions on facts, rather than on knee-jerk responses that may or may not have ANY relation to reality...)
 
http://www.lasentinel.net/Radio-One-Sells-V100-for-$137.5-Million.html

An urban station with a 1.3 in the ratings sells for 137 mil...Yes it's LA, but K104 has much better ratings....
 
little1 said:
http://www.lasentinel.net/Radio-One-Sells-V100-for-$137.5-Million.html

An urban station with a 1.3 in the ratings sells for 137 mil...Yes it's LA, but K104 has much better ratings....

At the time Bonneville bought that station, they only wanted the frequency. They dumped the format. So at the time, what they paid was stick value for a Class B in LA.

Today, stick value is likely about 20% or more less.

In Dallas, with roughly a third the market revenue pool, the stick value of an FM is likely about 35% to 40% of an LA one.

To get the current KKDA FM listening level (AQH persons) in LA, a station only needs about a 1.5 share.
 
little1 said:
2 things- the market is much more hispanic then it used to be. Look at those 6+ ratings, KLNO has a 4.3, KBOC a 2.6, KNOR a 2.4, and there's another close to 10 shares spread through another 6-8 "Spanish" stations. That's almost 20% of the market that was someplace else 5-10, 20 years ago.

There are around 16 Spanish language shares today, on average, in 12+. In 2005, there were 17.5... In fact, the last decade has seen comparable shares.

So in the last decade, roughly following the 2000 Census, any KKDA ratings erosion has been due to something other than the Hispanic "factor."

But the fact remains that the price that could have been had for the station at the peak is likely off by at least half if not more today.
 
David, thanks for the info. That's the logic I was attempting to follow.

L1, yep, pulled it right out of my ass. I must have struck a nerve there...was one of those YOUR employer, by chance?

What's the most any station's ever gone for in DFW?

KVIL, sold in 1987 for $82 million
KLUV, sold in 1995 for $55 million
KZPS and KDGE, sold as a pair in 1997 for $83.5 million

And your example is over a year old, AND from a market that's so potent and so apples-to-oranges from DFW that you can't really compare them fairly to each other.

My point (usually lost on you, anyway) is that who's in the market to buy anything right now, anyway? Even CBS and CC are horse-trading stations instead of buying anything outright. KKDA-FM may be well worth $100 million on paper, but if the highest bidder is $20 mil, and Hyman said, "best offer," then $20 mil would be the price. You can "BCF" yourself all day...but radio stations are not selling right now, at least not in this size market. Ever heard of "whatever the market will bear"? Sure, Hyman would be a fool at this point to let it go for $20 mil, but that's not the point. It's only worth what someone will pay you for it. Of course, no one can force you to sell it for that.

Using your logic, I've got a '94 Mazda pickup with 157,000 miles I'll sell ya for $14,500...firm. (By God, it says somewhere on paper that it should be worth that.) BTW, I bet you're a bitch to deal with at trade-in time.

A 40 yr old white guy listening to 104 these days? If the formatics were the same as 20 years ago, sure. FORMATICS, not the music...but the music style, the programming, etc. K-104 is not an Adult CHuRban station now as it was in 1980-85-or even 90.
 
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