Yeah, call me crazy, but I'd rather hear as close to the original recording than some phase-shifted, dynamically EQ'd, fake surround experience. And you're right. It has zero to do with radio, let alone a radio format.
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New Radio Format
- Thread starter kfbkfb
- Start date
(headphone "decoding" of surround sound has been around for a while)
I'm defining radio format not only as the type of songs but which mix of the song is played (similar in concept to AM stations playing the shorter radio edit version and FM stations playing the album version of the same song).
Kirk Bayne
I'm defining radio format not only as the type of songs but which mix of the song is played (similar in concept to AM stations playing the shorter radio edit version and FM stations playing the album version of the same song).
Kirk Bayne
That really doesn't happen much any more with currents.
Any stereo format (provided it has HiFi bandwidth, low noise, low distortion and high channel separation) would work.
I don't know the % of radio listeners using earbuds/headphones for stereo listening now as compared to 10, 15, 20 years ago.
It won't "break" any radio, it's just some music
Maybe a station/format could have an exclusive broadcasting 360 reality remixed songs for each market (perhaps the sounder [next song is a 360 reality remix] could mention Sony and thereby "pay" any increased costs associated with acquiring 360 reality content).
Kirk Bayne
I don't know the % of radio listeners using earbuds/headphones for stereo listening now as compared to 10, 15, 20 years ago.
It won't "break" any radio, it's just some music
Maybe a station/format could have an exclusive broadcasting 360 reality remixed songs for each market (perhaps the sounder [next song is a 360 reality remix] could mention Sony and thereby "pay" any increased costs associated with acquiring 360 reality content).
Kirk Bayne
So no this has not had a test broadcast on an FM station.
What if an FM station tries this "360 mixed music" and the music does not present well in Mono or on a car stereo when it goes into Blend mode. Your making some pretty big statements for not knowing what your talking about. It would be great if you could back up your claims with facts.
I'm willing to bet that Sony is only processing songs in their catalog (songs they own) for this 360 format. It's a gimmick to sell music in their Catalog. Sony would have to pay a station to play the 360 formatted songs. But only after it's actually been tested on an FM station to see how well it presents in all of the listening environments, which includes mono. If the 360 format does not transmit well over FM why would Sony want to want the music presented that way?
Sure this new format does not come with a Kool Aid drink?
What if an FM station tries this "360 mixed music" and the music does not present well in Mono or on a car stereo when it goes into Blend mode. Your making some pretty big statements for not knowing what your talking about. It would be great if you could back up your claims with facts.
I'm willing to bet that Sony is only processing songs in their catalog (songs they own) for this 360 format. It's a gimmick to sell music in their Catalog. Sony would have to pay a station to play the 360 formatted songs. But only after it's actually been tested on an FM station to see how well it presents in all of the listening environments, which includes mono. If the 360 format does not transmit well over FM why would Sony want to want the music presented that way?
Sure this new format does not come with a Kool Aid drink?
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Mono compatibility is the responsibility of the content creator, they should listen to their 360 reality mix in mono.
The 360 reality process is just another form of surround sound encoding for use with 2 channel systems, IIRC, ~50 years ago, the FCC stated that broadcasting (what was then called matrix quadraphonic sound) was fine and needed no special permission.
AFAIK, it's only songs owned by Sony.
Kirk Bayne
The 360 reality process is just another form of surround sound encoding for use with 2 channel systems, IIRC, ~50 years ago, the FCC stated that broadcasting (what was then called matrix quadraphonic sound) was fine and needed no special permission.
AFAIK, it's only songs owned by Sony.
Kirk Bayne
Yes, IMHO, surround sound is good idea, 360 reality, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X are all attempts to bring back "quad" sound.
www.wired.com
Surround sound is popular in gaming and of course movie soundtracks, audio only systems such as FM stereo radio seem to be behind the curve with regard to presenting content in (some form) of surround sound.
Kirk Bayne
Surround Sound Is the Most Surprising Gaming Upgrade I’ve Made
New mouse? New monitor? New keyboard? Maybe consider some new speakers, instead.
Surround sound is popular in gaming and of course movie soundtracks, audio only systems such as FM stereo radio seem to be behind the curve with regard to presenting content in (some form) of surround sound.
Kirk Bayne
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Because the other examples you give have a visual element. FM does not. FM markets itself on its portability, and ability to be used anywhere, not limited to just where the home stereo is. These are two different products and two different uses.
Sure if one wants to lock oneself in their room with their component stereo systems as they did 50 years ago, this is perhaps a nice add on. But it will reach only a small percentage of a station's audience. So you don't focus the thrust of your station's marketing and appeal to a product that will be used by a small fraction of the audience.
I've been reading a lot of articles on this since the subject came up, and none of them say anything about broadcast radio. This is all directed to streaming. If Sony is going to buy advertising somewhere, it will be on an ad-supported streaming service.
None of these tech companies are thinking about broadcast radio. Apple has created its own curated and hosted radio stations on Apple Music. It's all designed to replicate broadcast radio, but on the internet. Same with Spotify. They like it because it's digital. Broadcast is not. Sony likes it because streaming companies pay record labels a royalty, and broadcasting does not. So I'm not expecting this to show up on broadcast radio any time soon.
The idea of squeezing more than 2 channels into 2 channel media and distribution systems began in 1969 (Peter Scheiber invented the first such quadraphonic matrix system then), 360 reality is just another such scheme which, IMHO, could be used to enhance stereo radio listening (or vinyl LP listening, or pre-recorded compact cassette listening etc.).
Kirk Bayne
Kirk Bayne
Fantastic. Wonderful. I hope it's a great success and the few hundred thousand people who get involved enjoy it. But it has nothing to do with broadcast radio.
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Surround sound (SQ quad matrix) was on broadcast radio for several years starting about 50 years ago with the King Biscuit Flower Hour (I listened sometimes w/mono FM clock radio).
The BBC also developed a surround sound matrix (H) for broadcast radio.
We'll have to wait for the giant music/consumer electronics companies to pursue the rebirth of surround sound on broadcast radio.
Kirk Bayne
This sounds an awful lot like "QSound", which was developed in the early 90s and was allegedly a way to make stereo audio content sound binaural. There were some high-profile artists (Madonna, Sting, among others) who recorded albums using the format.
As I recall, there were problems with mono compatibility and it never really got any traction, at least in the recording industry.
As I recall, there were problems with mono compatibility and it never really got any traction, at least in the recording industry.
Headphone companies have been doing this since at least the 1960s. Here's one from 1973:
IIRC, the Madonna QSound album had to be remixed after the BBC deemed it unsuitable for broadcast because some of the background vocals and instruments would cancel out when listening in mono.
IIRC, the Madonna QSound album had to be remixed after the BBC deemed it unsuitable for broadcast because some of the background vocals and instruments would cancel out when listening in mono.
You've brought up the idea or reliving the idea of quad several times already. Many of us who actually lived through the past times chimed in why it didn't work back in the day, and now you've been given examples on why it wouldn't today either. In the late 70's, early 80's the failure of quad was lack of consumer interest. Today it's lack of a different kind of consumer interest because listeners no longer sit around wearing special headphones listening radio. And, as Frank mentioned, doing funky phase shift for effect, wouldn't be compatible to mono nor stereo radios. That would be a technical violation/incompatibility for FM stereo broadcasts.
I'm kinda wary about new phasing gimmicks for another reason entirely-the recordings. Namely, the Loudness Wars in mainstream Pop/Rock music over the last 30 decades, the recording engineering/mastering quality (or lack thereof) shows painfully from recording to recording since. You can improve the stereo separation. But if the original recordings were engineered badly (or on one tragic day some years ago, lost forever), there's not much you can do.
But that's not to discourage. FM radio might not be the outlet for it (it's showing it's age anyway.) But something else could be.
But that's not to discourage. FM radio might not be the outlet for it (it's showing it's age anyway.) But something else could be.
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