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New Rochester Numbers

M

Mark Giardina

12+ numbers shows the "B" numero uno with DKX second and the "news leader" in third.

Now here is where I give my annual rant about ratings.

(For the record...that sounds familar.....I do work part-time for WYSL)

According to this book a station in Batavia, which signal does not even reach Rochester, has the same number of listeners as WYSL. So you tell me what's is bogus about these ratings?

I think the same organization that tallies up these numbers were former elections commissioners in Florida during the 2000 presidential race.
 
"I think the same organization that tallies up these numbers were former elections commissioners in Florida during the 2000 presidential race."

No, they'd have found a way to vault WHAM from third to first. ;)

But seriously, some interesting developments here....not surprising that WBEE jumps to the front, they always do well in the warm-weather books. It's not even a surprise that WDKX moved up to almost a 9 share, close to its all time high of a year ago. What is a surprise is how many listeners WHAM apparently bled. It certainly isn't that the news cycle was dull or quiet. Could it be that WHAM's trio of far right shouters, Beck, Limbaugh and Savage, are wearing out their welcome in a basically moderate market?

98PXY also gains, like it always does in the summer book when 12-24 students aren't in class and thus are most likely to be tuned in...those same students probably gave WDKX a boost and helped it hit #2 as well. Legends 102.7 falls back a bit as Warm 101.3 gains (and that's probably the station that's fighting for the same 35-54 female audience that Legends wants). But Legends is still a pretty healthy 6th.

Another interesting phenomenon further down the ranks is how the battle over sports listeners was probably lost by BOTH WROC and WHTK. WHTK 1280 has lost half of its audience from a year or two ago, but WROC disappeared completely from the latest book...it's all the way down to a dash in the numbers, meaning an audience too small to reliably measure and report. If that persists it literally becomes a signal without value other than the real estate. If you were Entercom's regional manager Mike Doyle, what would you do with WROC to try to restore some value to it? And is sports talk really a viable format in Rochester, which has neither a major league pro team like Buffalo or a big time college program like Syracuse?
 
WBTA and WYSL performance... next, a discussion of hanging chad? Could be the diary placement. You'd think WYSL would perform better given its FM translator and better AM signal. WHAM gets a dose of reality 12+, but these are Persons 12+, so who really knows? One thing's certain, 'BEE had a great book, up 3.5 from last Summer. There has to be some nice Persons 25-54 inside that box. Looks like Legrett gets a mixed welcome back present. And what's Stephens Media going to do (if anything) with Fickle and the Zone? What's the potential for those signals? What of WCMF? More questions than answers, it seems.
 
And what's Stephens Media going to do (if anything) with Fickle and the Zone?
Click to expand...

Yeah, what's up with that, especially Fickle? IIRC, 93.3 did better than that when it was The River and then the re-located(from 98.9)WBBF-FM. Marti and Dino both sound good in morning/afternoons, respectively.

WROC gets a zero?? Prog. Talk wasn't getting them much either, but better than that. The urban gold format Entercom runs on 1400AM in Buffalo might be a better fit(but I'm not a corporate management guy, so who knows what they'll do, if anything).

Legends was down a little from spring, but seems like they have found a solid listener base. You could say they're Music of Your Life, the next generation. Reminds me of the early success back in the 80s enjoyed by WECK with MOYL. BTW, their sister station at 990AM isn't even listed at the bottom with all the zero rated stations. I wonder why that is.
 
i love both sp. radio stations and listen to both of them. the worst is when they're both in commercial at the same time in the afternoon. there is so much crossover in rochester music stations that any one pop/rock song can be heard on literally 5 or 6 radio stations. if somebody wants to flip formats might i recommend AAA/americana format, 88.5 has some descent following in late a.m. and then world cafe in the afternoon. its one of the only formats that hasn't found its way to commercial radio in roch.
 
Element9 said:
WBTA and WYSL performance... next, a discussion of hanging chad? Could be the diary placement. You'd think WYSL would perform better given its FM translator and better AM signal. WHAM gets a dose of reality 12+, but these are Persons 12+, so who really knows? One thing's certain, 'BEE had a great book, up 3.5 from last Summer. There has to be some nice Persons 25-54 inside that box. Looks like Legrett gets a mixed welcome back present. And what's Stephens Media going to do (if anything) with Fickle and the Zone? What's the potential for those signals? What of WCMF? More questions than answers, it seems.
Click to expand...

One big question is whether Arbitron really understands how to credit listening to FM translators which rebroadcast AM stations. This is a relatively new practice and I'm not sure they fully understand it.

For example, if a diary keeper in Monroe County writes 92.1 and nothing else, does credit go to WYSL or WSEN-FM (which probably does penetrate the eastern side of the TSA). The FCC CDBS database entry for W221CL says nothing about WYSL, so Arbitron may not have this figured out.
 
Bob Savage can chime in here with the definitive answer, but I'm pretty sure he can register W221CL with WYSL for combined top line reporting.
 
Rochester (like Buffalo) being a diary market, Arbitron ascription (should) rules apply as a 100% simulmcast situation, as such (TTBOMK) WYSL should appear as WYSL AM + FM followed by separates and total shares for AM and FM. Even though the FM operates as a translator, it functions as a ratable radio station on the FM band which simulcasts it AM 100%.

Consultant Roger Wimmer, PhD, an outstanding numbers cruncher, offers an overview of transalor crediting. (Scroll down below the "Sue Arbitron" discussion.)

Arbitron offers that listening to a translator is credited to its parent station but "do not need to be included in Total Line reporting combo." It appears that much of the burden for credit falls on the operator/licensee, probably as to how specific and detailed the Arbitron pre-ratings forms are completed by the station. It's been my experience that this is one of those 'paperwork' items that PDs cannot afford to overlook.

I could be (as Frank Zappa once sang) totally wrong. If so, I'd appreciate being corrected as one of my many daily "teaching moments." Savor the day!
 
JimPastrick said:
Consultant Roger Wimmer, PhD, an outstanding numbers cruncher, offers an overview of transalor crediting. (Scroll down below the "Sue Arbitron" discussion.)

Arbitron offers that listening to a translator is credited to its parent station but "do not need to be included in Total Line reporting combo." It appears that much of the burden for credit falls on the operator/licensee, probably as to how specific and detailed the Arbitron pre-ratings forms are completed by the station. It's been my experience that this is one of those 'paperwork' items that PDs cannot afford to overlook.
Click to expand...

Jim, thanks for posting the link to Roger Wimmer's page; this confirms some of my suspicions.

First, Ms. Knisley explains that "once we receive a request, we will then verify the translator's usage with the FCC", but CDBS doesn't clearly associate translators with primary stations, at least not in an FM Query or Station Search.

Go ahead and try this -- enter W221CL as callsign and see if the search details say anything about WYSL:
http://licensing.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/sta_sear.htm

Then, we learn that "the station then becomes eligible for credit in its translator-located county only", but what if the translator reaches more than one county? This is quite possible with 250 watts from an elevated transmitter site. And what happens if the diary keeper resides in a different county (for example, Wayne) but commutes to Monroe and listens in the car?

It also sounds like the translator frequencies are purged after a year if there are no diary mentions, but do licensees always know this has happened?

I think there are still some bugs in their system that need to be worked out.
 
BTW, my first post in this thread contained some of the worst typing, grammar and syntax (I've) ever posted on this board. Brutal! Blame it on multi-tasking (or as my friend Tom Atkins calls it, "screwing up two things at the same time.") Back to the translator (aka "transalor") issue: Good questions and points made, Freebird. The CDBS isn't all that precise as it relates to W221CL and WYSL, at least at this time. It appears Arbitron policy would not credit listening to WYSL @ 92.1 if listeners were mobile, listening in Genesee, Orleans, Wayne and ironically, Livingston county, home to WYSL-AM. This policy seems to be in need of revision, especially as more 'limited signal' AM stations simulcast on FM translators. There is some (small) consolation in that WYSL's 92.1 translator is in Monroe county, the most populous in the Rochester market.
 
Regarding WYSL's standing in the books.

There is no way in hell that a station in Batavia can pull in the same numbers as WYSL 1040 or their FM translator 92.1. Try to pick up WBTA on your radio and see what happens. Meanwhile WYSL's signal comes booming into metro Rochester.

If I was Mr. Savage I wouldn't worry about a ratings system that is obviously skewed against his station because he doesn't subscribe to it.
 
We have repeatedly included W221CL in our Arbitron roster/registry forms, ever since the FM went on the air last January. I have also had two phone conversations with Arbitron's market rep who has promised me that 92.1 is/will be included in the tabulations. Still, however, I share your suspicions. Since we are not a subscriber there is little motivation for Arbitron to make sure our station is accurately represented.

That being said, I have to say that the station slogan reporting form received during the summer looked way weird. For example, in Rochester, it appeared 'WYSL-AM' didn't make the minimum reporting standard while "WYSL-FM' did. That's the first time that's ever happened. I don't know with any certainty what this might mean, but I would bet it's an example of really bad diary placement.
 
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