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New smooth jazz network

Couple of things:

1) Earlier this year I was interviewing for a PD gig at a SJ station in (******). The GM asked me how I felt about BA since they were consulting the station. I asked him how he felt giving some of his hard earned budget money to Clear Channel. He looked at me like I had two heads. I told him that we wouldn't need BA to have a successful station, but he had already taken a drink of the kool-aid and was convinced that they were the "best". I told him he needed a facillitator, not a PD and thanked him for his time.

2) Think it's just a coincidence that KIFM is #1 12+ without BA's help? Look at other non-BA stations that are keeping SJ relatively fresh and entertaining. BA is taking the format, which used to be an alternative to all of the structured and homogenized music formats, and turning into just another watered down version of AC.

Finally(imho), the smooth jazz network will survive for a short time...but eventually we'll see markets with strong AC stations knocking them out of the ratings and revenue race. Then you know what that means...it's be just like it was 5-6 years ago when we saw numerous format flips across the country.
 
The fact that it's up and running and displacing people is very disturbing. It was my impression that the "network" was to be pitched to smaller markets that didn't have a budget for an entire airstaff. I guess not.

I saw that Annie isn't a part of the night show anymore. No disrespect to her, but she didn't sound the least bit comfortable. So back to nights for Danae.

And where do they get the idea that putting Dave Koz in afternoon drive is the answer? And in Chicago at 'NUA? Yes, I realize he's on in Philly too. Not a good move there either. Afternoon drive? Right.

I agree that this won't make it through the year, and if it does, it'll be without A. Kepler's friends in the music world. Kenny G.? Sorry, that guy isn't very personable. He's not rude, he's just....not an air person. Maybe that's what they're going for. The best smooth jazz played by your favorite artists. It wouldn't surprise me. This may be the death knell for B.A or Kepler's career.
 
Anne is still on the network. WNUA just wasn't going to blow out Danae.. I guess ya have to live there or be male because she really overdoes the sexy moan thing but shes a heritage personality there. At least Koz has a natural voice, although all these musicians are going to be doing is voicetracking and sticking to scripted/structured breaks. Agree, KG is not very personable, and have you seen the sales stats on his new CD? Stiffing big time!

CC Norfolk just flipped one of their stations back to Sj with the network running full time.
 
Now that I've heard it...

With reference to wangchungs post above, RnR did a feature on the success KIFM has been having while actually playing smooth jazz and recent music a few issues ago. Excellent reading. BA tries to discredit you if you counter their tactics publicly but you can't argue with a winner.

Now that I've listened on and off for a while two things strike me.

1. If these people are so godlike and have such resources, the latest technology, the best and only reliable research methods, experience, and friends in high places then how come the best they can come up with is "Midnight Train To Georgia" into "Feels So Good" into "Get Down On It" I could set up a database that had categories for 60s/70s oldie vocals, SJ songs that crossed over before 1995, covers, and Screeching Divas (lots of Maria and Toni on this thing) and about 20 original smooth jazz songs, 10 of them by Paul Hardcastle and come up with this.

2. The jocks are really talky and its never about music or about anything that's relevant to anyone but themselves. Seems like they are reading the little lifestyle blurbs at the front of magazines like LHJ and Family Circle. Miranda spend about 2 minutes talking about her hometown (Baltimore) and her favorite TV show. I don't live in Baltimore and I don't listen to the radio to find out what the jock's favorite TV show is..especially when elaborated on at length. The other day Dave Koz spent a lengthy time talking about how it was Thursday, tomorrow would be Friday, then it would be the weekend, but Thursday night was still to come. :???: Maybe I spent too many years getting my talk sets to fit into an intro or having a PD clock them but if you talk this long talk about something I care about.

A very smart post appeared on the Atlanta Board...here's the link. scroll down to ck dexter haven
http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,66767.0.html.
I'm going to quote it. If this violates TOS hopefully the mod caan just delete the quote and leave the link. underline is mine

Talent has very little in the way of good teaching examples to rely on now. Nearly everyone's doing liners--there's hardly any stations left with non-morning drive dayparts that allow/encourage creative, relevant, SHORT breaks ("short" meaning, hit it and get it....outta there...come in for a landing, don't circle the airport. Get to the point and hit your spots). And if they're not doing liners, the only thing newbies have to model themselves after is self-indulgent yakkety-yak stupid trying-to-be-funny incredibly long break aren't-we-cool smug and "inside the building" oriented morning shows.
Click to expand...

Or in the case of SJN - morning, midday, afternoon and evening shows.
 
Your point #2 is well-said, Another Cat. Over the years, it seems the role of the on-air host in much of music radio has moved away from being a "presenter of music."

In a distinctive format like smooth jazz, where the music itself is what attracts people, music-related content would be most welcome. And who better to tell some great stories about the artists and the crafting of the music than the artists themselves?

In smooth jazz most of the significant performers seem to know each other. Their own experiences and interactions with musicians would be a great source of show prep. Hearing their professional perspectives would be fascinating!

Forget the lifestyle stuff and tell us some stories about why this music we love is exceptional!

Nick Gerard

www.NickOnTheAir.com
 
if it's boring...it must be successful (sigh!)

It seems like most smooth jazz programmers believe in playing it safe....
and apparently that's what works.

In northeastern Ohio, WNWV is painfully predictable: nearly 50%
vocals. And, the vocals are, of course: soft top 40 oldies or AC
oldies. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Nobody on this list who loves smooth jazz expects commercial
NAC stations to be all new music and wildly esoteric. We all know it's a business.

In the past few years, the songs most NAC's call "currents" are in
fact mostly "recurrents"....many of which are 6 months old or older.
And, the library tracks/NAC oldies so-to-speak...sound like the same
300 or 400 songs.

If you're lucky you'll hear one truly new track per hour...but often
not in drive times.

It really seems that NAC programmers feel this highly-predictable
NAC oldie/recurrent/AC vocals blend is what works. All of these programmers
can't be crazy or ignorant.

If you haven't given KIFM in San Diego a listen...do so. They stream. While
they do play a lot of overly-familiar stuff...this station also plays a lot more
new music than most NACs. And...by the way...they are San Diego's #1
station in total audience.

KWJZ in Seattle is very good also. Sadly, KTWV/LA
isn't close to what they used to be musically. Very dry.
Very predictable.

Sad as it is to say, it really seems if it's boring...it must be successful.
 
just remember that this network is programmed by BA, the same folks who have basically turned every smooth jazz station affiliated with them into 1 instrumental to 1 vocal ratios with the vocals being Whitney Houston and Babyface. did we ever expect the network to be any better? i agree ... it's a shame. so much good music that never gets played.
 
Re: Now that I've heard it...

AnotherCat said:
2. The jocks are really talky and its never about music or about anything that's relevant to anyone but themselves. Seems like they are reading the little lifestyle blurbs at the front of magazines like LHJ and Family Circle. Miranda spend about 2 minutes talking about her hometown (Baltimore) and her favorite TV show. I don't live in Baltimore and I don't listen to the radio to find out what the jock's favorite TV show is..especially when elaborated on at length. The other day Dave Koz spent a lengthy time talking about how it was Thursday, tomorrow would be Friday, then it would be the weekend, but Thursday night was still to come. :???: Maybe I spent too many years getting my talk sets to fit into an intro or having a PD clock them but if you talk this long talk about something I care about.
Click to expand...

I heard that Dave Koz quote here in Philadelphia on WJJZ this Thursday. Then he started talking about Saturday, and I was like WHAT!?!? Are they that desparate to find something for the so-called DJ to say in between songs? Just forget about the DJ if they're going to blabber about stupidity. Dave koz talks so rarely, that it hardly anyone would notice if his voice was no longer on there.
 
well, 10 years ago I never thought I'd say it, but nowadays, I almost prefer straight automation and music over phony voicetracks and/or DJs who have nothing to say. give some song facts and information. or worse yet is when the automation system screws up and backsells/frontsells the wrong songs. i don't know if this has ever happened on BA but i heard it happen more than once on a small market smooth jazz station. the dj frontsold a george benson song and simply red started playing. just forget the voicetracks and do quality automation.
 
I've probably said it before elsewhere on this board, but nothing will change as far as the music presented. The working mantra with Smooth Jazz and other formats is to find ways to get people to listen to the same drivel. The programmers are totally sold on the drivel. I repeat...the programmers are totally sold on the drivel. Whether it be big name stars in music, movies or even TV or big national contests, those elements will be between the same drivel. They will flip formats before changing the music. Have you ever heard a format so criticized that they actually listened to their critics? No. They just go away if they can't win. Too easy to flip. Despite the success you see in some SJ arenas, there are relatively few people programming the format who really know how to create a passionate audience enough to be local. "Local" jocks don't know this stuff and the ones who do can't work for the money offered. Therefore the only thing they can do is play it safe with the music they bothered to have researched and find ways between the songs to get people to listen. The only change in smooth jazz I see is that it will go away. I wish it would as a format. The term Smooth Jazz should go away too. It really should be weekend or weeknight specialty stuff on AAA or Soft AC stations. If it's delivered as specialty, then the AC stuff won't have to be there. It'll be on the AC's regular format when the show is over. We can whine and whine on this stuff and we have for years and nothing's changed. So maybe what's happening now is that it will go away, maybe left to the few in Philly, Detroit and San Diego who can pretty much do it. They could do it better if they were the only ones in the format. Then if they're successful the copycats will come, then we could have a more enjoyable format. It's embarassing to hear people laugh when a Smooth Jazz station is playing in a restaurant or bar and James Taylor or Babyface comes on. This has happened on several occasions, most recently two weeks ago when Chaka Khan and Phil Collins came on.
 
I think the scariest song is the cover of Just My Imgaination that Babyface is doing with some movie chick. I kept thinking how did this woman who can't sing get on a CD then finally heard a backannounce. The fact that you look good onscreen when you pout makes you a singer. ::)

I know at least 5 knowlegable and passionate jocks who had either brunch shows or worked for a previous smooth jazz station in my market and would love to have been given a chance to work the format again. Some of them have started an internet station, which could work since the signal for the SJN affiliate is so bad that you could only listen at work if you listened to their stream.
 
well thats a problem with a lot of "covers." they just dont have any pep. take a look at dave koz's version of "it might be you." now i'm all about sappy instrumental remakes, but on xm satellite radio's beautiful music channel. not smooth jazz. koz's "it might be you" is touching, but a bit "too" touching. if it got any more sweet and sad, i'd go through a whole box of kleenex.

whereas better "covers" are Peter White's "Mr. Magic." Amazing remake. also, getting away from the covers, make some good and powerful sounding instrumental originals. 480 east's song called "noodle soup" or spur of the moment's song called "food for the dog" are excellent examples of this.

smooth jazz is a viable format. it shouldn't just be a "weekend format" as someone here suggested. but the music does need to get a little zippier. adding chill to the playlist at wqcd in new york a couple years ago i thought was the right direction. alas, that has been dropped.
 
Chill was a BA driven flash in the pan. Some of those guys heard it being played in the background at restaurants in Europe and went all ga-ga. People want real songs with melody and hooks. Chill is just sound effects and canned beats. We need to bring the pop/rock flavor in to balance the mellow R&B so there's more variety in texture and energy. Artists like Ken Navarro and Acoustic Alchemy are making this music but corporate stations are scared to play it because someone might notice it's there. In XM terms, because that's the easiest way to clarify, there's this big territory between Watercolors and Beyond Jazz that nobody has explored since the first SJ Network went on the air. Real songs, more variety in tempo. People want escapism more than relaxation..don't put them to sleep, give them something compelling to make their day a little better.
 
Yeah, Gwyneth Paltrow does that thingy with Babyface. I have so many great CDs with the compelling songs Another Cat talks about in this thread. I do love Four80East's "Noodle Soup." Saxophonist Andrew Neu has a new CD "In Clear View." Love it! But the single is "Celebration", the Kool & the Gang tune. The REAL songs are "Wine", "Moving On", "Clear View" and "Sob City." Anyone of those will move us more than "Celebration." But that's the song Neu thinks he needs to get attention from radio. But I'm not hearing it yet. "Wind Chill Factor" by Matt Marshak has been my favourite since last May, but we had to sit through "Summer Funk" and "Mantauk Moon" before it was finally released. Had it come out last summer it might have done something. The first two mentioned songs of his stiffed. The bass on "Chill" is awesome! Nils' new "Ready To Play" CD is nice, but the title track just lays there for me. Doesn't GO! But "Catnap" and even his remake of Des'ree's "You Gotta Be" would make me turn it up on the radio. The only "turn it up" song on SJ radio for me right now is "The Rhythm Method" by Paul Brown. Great! The title track "White Sand" is great as well. The tracks "Ol' Skoolin'" featuring Boney James and "R 'n' B Bump" w/David Benoit worth crankin' too! By the way, any station that plays "Wind Chill Factor" is my favourite station while it's on!

This cat named Wayne Jones is cool. Bass player. New CD is "Forgotten Melody". Title track is OK, but "Gone For A Walk" sold me just from reading a review on the CD about the nature of the tune. Kind of like smooth funk. VERY nice! You have to take chances on some of this stuff. If I had gone by radio play, I never would have picked up on a lot of it. Had I only heard Nils' title track, I never would have gotten it. I heard "Catnap" in a music store near our local college campus. They guy there even told me, I "wouldn't hear this on the radio. It's too good." Maybe it will be released in the fall of 2007 or so for radio. You guys got me on this music kick here, but your points here made me do it. I love the music but what radio chooses to play (or the record company picks as the song to play) are off base. That's where radio runs into iPod trouble! It's be nice if they would go ahead and play "their" songs, but add any second track mentioned above or others and I'll bet they can turn things around. But it has to be done by pros who know what they're doing or they'll kill the concept.
 
well written thoughts. i agree. i've long thought the smooth jazz moniker should be dropped for contemporary jazz. i appreciate watercolors calling it c-jazz even if it still is smooth jazz. i want to hear edgier c-jazz tunes like david sanborn's 'chicago song' or alex bugnon's 'feels like sunday morning.' don't drop the other tunes. just add some edgier ones. you guys are right. watercolors can be too dry at times. beyond jazz can be too rough. a middle ground would be cool.
 
Nice song choices Interstate! "Chicago Song" has been a favourite of mine for years. I remember when the song "Okra" by Alex Bugnon was in the early SJ format. Would be nice to hear that one back. I think WJZI in Milwaukee has a great concept. The got rid of the "Jazz" moniker (and sax logo) and are now just "Smooth 93.3." I think that's what many SJ stations should gravitate to. It would reduce expectations for any good sounding contemporary jazz. I saw the song list and it's basically like an Urban leaning AC. Great format to go after Urban AC numbers which are high in many markets. If they reduce the expectations for jazz, people will listen and be less critical and scratching their heads less. They can do two strong AC vocals and one SJ drivel song and actually be OK. They're actually doing that. Vocal/vocal/instrumental drivel. This way you can be "smooth" and play the best of the SJ drivel in the format and be cool with it. The drivel can be the spice! This version of the format could actually be a contender in markets where there's enough Urban AC pie! I'd even listen, only because I'll expect good AC and any SJ drivel might sound good, because I wouldn't necessarily expect it. Eyes should be on this station. It might be the future of many existing SJ stations that are struggling.
 
While this isn't related to the current topic of the last few postings, I see that Annie Ashe isn't a part of the line up at KKSF. I know she was, but that isn't the case anymore. Maria Lopez has been brought back on board, which is nice.

I wonder why in the world it didn't happen for them when it came to using Annie.
 
You're cool, Sirius. Didn't know that about Ashe at KKSF. I've stopped listening to the format for awhile. I'm speaking as a non-radio person, which I pretty much am, but I can't stand not having a local jock speak to me on what has been largely a format with a more personal touch than most. The network just sounds too robotic, I can't get into that style of DJing. I can't explain it. It just doesn't work for me. I've had people tell me that over and over. They said it just sounds weird and you don't really see people at the events anymore because no one is talking about them. The recorded thingys sound like a commercial is coming on so you don't pay a whole lot of attention. And they go by so fast you catch only the end of it. I just figured I had to distance myself from listening so I won't get frustrated. I have been buying new SJ CDs though and they are great. I think that's what I'm going to do now since the format can't do anything for me. Just look at the charts and take your chances. But there is some great music out there but you just have to make sure to buy for real good entertainment. I have a road trip coming up and I'm looking forward to playing this new music. I used to listen for new music in this format even as recently as 2003 and the jocks in the format, but they're all gone. You hear the same stuff everywhere. I just have to get away from the format Not the music. The posts are very infrequent here and for good reason.
 
I have a road trip coming up and I'm looking forward to playing this new music.
[/quote]

ck

Do yourself a favor and pick up the new four 80 east disc for your trip. Not a bad track on it and so unlike the over researched crap you hear on these over researched stations.

Nock
 
Nock! You know da music. Picked up Four80East and I think the tune "The Drop" is the next "Sigh" (Praful). That songs sticks with me. If a SJ were playing it, and the other good stuff out there, I'd be listening to them. Cut 1 is good too but "The Drop" absolutely works! And of course "Noodle Soup". A good SJ station would add "The Drop" to the mix. Awesome! Watch "The Drop" come out as a SJ single in January/February 2008 after whatever they follow up "Noodle Soup" with. Just a hunch---going by history of the format.
 
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