NEW SPORTS STATION

[Rusty Muck]

They're ALL run by sales geeks! ;D

Too bad we can only speculate. Mel got a good deal on WKNR. Had to be billing 3 or 4 million a year, otherwise he would not have ponied up the million & and half for that "one no one can hear" to force Salem's hand on the sale of WKNR.

Checking old newspaper clips, the Karmizan Klub actually paid $2.5M for AM/1540! Meanwhile, Salem unloaded WKNR for $7M.

The studio space renovations at the Galleria were valued at $500,000.

But seriously. $2.5M for a puny inner-city daytime AM? Even in 2006 when radio station still sold for sizable sums, that was ludicrous. Dale Edwards made off like a [expletive] bandit.

Don't kid yourself. Salem was selling that sports station. Salem did not cater to the 3 B's that sports stations live on ( beer, betting, broads ) but they made some hay over there.

I thought they did sell for all three, which only heightened the irony (and especially so when the Drennan fiasco unfolded). Only there was no emphasis on the spots for beer, betting and broads - I don't remember them selling for the latter, tho.

Salem did treat WKNR autonomously given their standard MO of station operation. They just never cared to have a sports station in their portfolio to begin with, but appreciated the extra $$$. And certainly 850 aired far more brokered slots and infomercials. The only real overlap came in 2004-2007 when everyone's favorite PD, Mike Luczak, shared those duties with WKNR and conservatalk WHK.

And one thing I found out a year ago: in 2004, Salem had considered moving WKNR to their own Independence Death Star alongside WHK, WHKW and The Fish. Even went so far as to hold serious meetings with WKNR's staff and hosts about such a move. But it never came to fruition.

The only way I can see CBS going after the sports dollars ( i.e. change format to sports talk on one of their signals) is if the dollars KNR is billing now are disproportionate to what a sports talk station in this size market traditionally bills....power ratios....that sort of thing.

If those numbers are out of whack and opportunity for CBS exists to garner those dollars, they will make a play. I don't think that scenario exists.

I still don't think it exists, either.

Mostly I've been playing devil's advocate for the sake of discussion on here... it takes a real leap of faith for CBS Radio to make such an investment. And as much as I want them to get off their high horse and clearly make an investment in a below-top 10 market - which would be a serious, and positive, jolt for this city - I'm not confident they want to do so.

Personally, GKB purchasing an FM to simulcast/move WKNR makes more sense. (Pretty much, 850 would become "ESPN 850" with all network programming and the complete Rome show while the FM is almost all-local). They have nothing to lose. I don't know what station they'll get, though... or if any are available.

 

[TANK1]

P.D. hunt going on now...

 

[vjm]

Personally, GKB purchasing an FM to simulcast/move WKNR makes more sense. (Pretty much, 850 would become "ESPN 850" with all network programming and the complete Rome show while the FM is almost all-local). They have nothing to lose. I don't know what station they'll get, though... or if any are available.

I kinda wonder how much longer ELB would want to hold onto 107.3.

This is just me, but I see ELB as a small fish in a big pond. They may want to get out of Cleveland. They may be happier just dealing with WEOL and their 3 station Sandusky/Lake Erie Island cluster.

ELB was willing to blow up a successful 20 year format (The Wave), so I don't see them as seeing WNWV as a sacred cow.

Either that, or Moody Bible Institute unloads WCRF 103.3.

CC ain't selling Kiss/Buzzard/Majic/Lake/GAR to GKB. CBS surely won't work with Karmazin, Radio One has 2 rock solid FMs in ZAK and Z-107.9 that they're happy with. And Salem has The Fish, which they might sell if the price is right, but it won't be cheap.

 

[ericjbard]

Something tells me ELB wont sell unless they could swap with cash. While WNWV may be an odd man out station in the big party it allows ELB to bring their chips to the table when necessary. It's a great marketing arm for their Medina and Elyria paper products too.

They could eventually swap with 104.9 with Ideastream paying them millions on top, then could re-invest back into radio and paper?

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

A large chunk of the 107.3 audience can't even get the Elyria and Medina papers. That's a lot of wattage promoting those little papers to folks as far east as Lake County!

If that's what they want, 930 would suit their needs just fine.

I can easily see them selling off 107.3 solo, and hanging onto 930 and the Sandusky-area stations.

Can I see GKB buying it? Well, Craig K himself, on that infamous post-Jim Rome Fiasco show, basically said an FM station was "not in the cards", strongly intimating that an FM signal would be too expensive. Would ELB go low enough on the price of 107.3 that he'd be interested?

And who else out there could buy such a signal? CC is maxxed out. CBS wants to sell, but couldn't fit it even if they stuck around. Salem and Radio One aren't buying, and 107.3 being a singleton, it is less attractive for a group that's not already in Cleveland.

EMF/K-Love? Eep. Might be too good of a signal for them.

And about WCLV...remember, 104.9 is going to Ideastream. Would they buy 107.3? It's supposedly been marketed for sale for a while now, if you believe the rumors. Why would they buy 104.9, but later buy 107.3 and move the WCLV intellectual property there? Why would they just not negotiate with ELB for 107.3 in the first place?

 

[Rusty Muck]

A large chunk of the 107.3 audience can't even get the Elyria and Medina papers. That's a lot of wattage promoting those little papers to folks as far east as Lake County!

If that's what they want, 930 would suit their needs just fine.

I can easily see them selling off 107.3 solo, and hanging onto 930 and the Sandusky-area stations.

Bear in mind that A. Cooper Hudnutt, the longtime chairman of Lorain County Printing & Publishing (which Elyria-Lorain operates from within), passed away in November. Whether or not his family still wants to hold onto the station group - or the Elyria Chronicle and Medina Gazette - is their call.

The problem for Elyria-Lorain is, 107.3 had basically been the heartbeat for the rest of the cluster since it became a Cleveland move-in with Z-Rock. 930 has been gutted to the core, and then some. If they unload 107.3, it's a matter of time before the rest of the cluster is either spun off or acquired outright. The Sandusky cluster still should fetch a pretty penny.

Can I see GKB buying it? Well, Craig K himself, on that infamous post-Jim Rome Fiasco show, basically said an FM station was "not in the cards", strongly intimating that an FM signal would be too expensive. Would ELB go low enough on the price of 107.3 that he'd be interested?

Very possible. Plus I would take what Craig said OTA with the largest grain of sodium chloride I can get my hands on. Would he REALLY want to say to everyone, "hey, I'm going to deal with another firm for an FM relay of WKNR?"

GKB does own some non-sports stations in their home state of Wisconsin - including a tiny AM/FM duopoly in Beaver Dam. It's not inconceivable IMO for Craig to buy all of ELB outright, assuming the price is low enough.

And who else out there could buy such a signal? CC is maxxed out. CBS wants to sell, but couldn't fit it even if they stuck around. Salem and Radio One aren't buying, and 107.3 being a singleton, it is less attractive for a group that's not already in Cleveland.

For the sake of throwing it out there: Rubber City. They could target both Cleveland and Akron with 107.3 as a theoretical sister station to their existent Akron cluster (or if Mr. Mandel just gets 107.3, move the studios to Akron but, again, still target both markets).

EMF/K-Love? Eep. Might be too good of a signal for them.

Elyria-Lorain did make a small deal with EMF before, for their modest stand-alone in Mansfield - active rock "Z98" WYXZ/98.7 Crestline, now known as WYKL.

Yes, it's apples and oranges, but hardly unprecedented.

And about WCLV...remember, 104.9 is going to Ideastream. Would they buy 107.3? It's supposedly been marketed for sale for a while now, if you believe the rumors. Why would they buy 104.9, but later buy 107.3 and move the WCLV intellectual property there? Why would they just not negotiate with ELB for 107.3 in the first place?

A 104.9/107.3 swap with ideastream is interesting. I don't even think it entered anyone's mind at ideastream or the WCLV Foundation.

Say that ELB only does that swap, but retains the rest of the cluster. Ideally, they should simply simulcast WEOL on 104.9 as WEOL-FM, either with talk or a throwback music format. It would automatically solve 930's obvious problem of being on the AM band.

What I'm curious about is if ideastream would be able to relay WCLV's programming on one of 90.3's HD subchannels. As WCLV will remain a commercial station and consequently won't be recognized by the FCC as a "sister station" to non-comm WCPN, I'm not sure it's possible.

 

[vjm]

I can't see GKB buying the whole ELB portfolio.

107.3?...definitely.

Load it up with all the local hosts (plus Jim Rome in his entirety), and simulcast it on 1540, while 850 goes "Worldwide Leader" 24/7.

The "ESPN 107.3 WKNR-FM" schedule (simulcast on ESPN 1540 KNR2)

Munch - 5 - 8 a.m.
RBS - 8 a.m. - noon
Rome - noon - 3 p.m.
R & R - 3 - 7 p. m.
Xs & Os - 7 - 8 p.m.
Gamenight/10th Inning/KNR OT (Brinda) - 8 p.m. - midnight (simulcast on 850)
ESPN Radio (simulcast on 850) - midnight - 5 a.m.

OSU football/hoops gets simulcast on 850/107.3 unless there's a conflict, then the lower priority game (say Monsters/Gladiators) goes to 850 (or 1540 if it's a day game...then you could still do an 850/107.3 simulcast).

I can't see what GKB would want with 930 or the Sandusky cluster...too much on his plate for what he's trying to do.

 

[Rusty Muck]

At that point, 1540 could be simply unloaded for a mere pittance - or becomes a brokered gospel/ethnic signal (meaning more $$$ for GKB). Or it becomes "1540 ESPN Deportes" - which in effect would become the first commercial radio station licensed to Cleveland to carry a full-time Hispanic format of any sort.

Aside from Rome (which I believe would stay on 850 given GKB's reliance on local hosts - can't help but think tRBS ultimately gets a 10a-2p slot) the rest of the schematics make sense.

If Elyria-Lorain unloads just 107.3, then the rest of ELB is ripe for an outright takeover. 930 will have the most problems - if 107.3 is sold, 930 will need an FM translator... and BAD. But the only available translator in the entire county just got purchased by CC and will be moved to Parma.

 

[vjm]

If nothing else, 1540 could go full time FSR if it doesn't simulcast any "WKNR-FM" just to play keep away.

We could at least get Dan Patrick back on the radio.

Jim Rome simulcast on 1540/107.3 would be kind of a make-good for the current format if it were to come into fruition.

And why would WEOL want to go FM?

930 is Lorain-Elyria focused...the Cleveland/NE Ohio market at large would tune out such a narrowly focused format.

930 is fine for what it is...serving the L-E area.

Anything going on 107.3 needs to be full market focused.

 

[Rusty Muck]

If nothing else, 1540 could go full time FSR if it doesn't simulcast any "WKNR-FM" just to play keep away.

We could at least get Dan Patrick back on the radio.

Jim Rome simulcast on 1540/107.3 would be kind of a make-good for the current format if it were to come into fruition.

I can go with that. In any case, any of these scenarios has the entire Rome show airing on one station (or simulcast on two) in the Cleveland market once again.

And why would WEOL want to go FM?

930 is Lorain-Elyria focused...the Cleveland/NE Ohio market at large would tune out such a narrowly focused format.

930 is fine for what it is...serving the L-E area.

Anything going on 107.3 needs to be full market focused.

I was referencing having a FM translator not dissimilar to what CC is attempting with W262BI/99.1... which could cover just Elyria, Lorain and Oberlin. Not much else. Ironically, the original incarnation of W262BI, would have done that.

WEOL does decently with their sports coverage, but has no other local programming output of any kind after Jeff Thomas wraps up. Their newsroom has been decimated to just one newscaster, and it's all voice-tracked after 11am. Plus their imaging is beyond make-shift, with most liners well over five years old or older.

They need lots of help. A solid infusion of cash and programming, some embracing of social networking and a commitment to a full-service news department. And I don't see the Hudnutt family doing that for a long time, if ever.

 

[DToTheJ]

P.D. hunt going on now...

For this "new sports station", I'm assuming?

Too bad Gregg Henson is off the market... :

 

[dasfonzie]

Maxwell was just talking about this an. He mentioned that he read (unbeknownst to him) that his show would do mornings on this hypothetical new FM sports station, then the rest of the day would be sports

 

[Capulet]

Mels not going to buy an FM in Cleveland. CBS is not going to change a format to sports talk. IMO.

 

[wprt949]

MEL is at sirius now where you been ?

 

[Capulet]

MEL is at sirius now where you been ?

I've been in San Antonio trying to see what kind of car Bob Pittman drives. ;D
Mel buys stations for his kid. Already bought 2 here. I doubt he buys an FM in this market.

 

[Rusty Muck]

MEL is at sirius now where you been ?

I've been in San Antonio trying to see what kind of car Bob Pittman drives. ;D
Mel buys stations for his kid. Already bought 2 here. I doubt he buys an FM in this market.

After paying $2.5M for WWGK, I couldn't blame him. :

Although I don't think Mel's the only financier (i.e.: the Goldhammer family) but that's a subject for another thread...

And who knows? Maybe GKB DOES have the money to buy an FMer after all. Again, this hinges on the selling party (ELB or Salem) also low-balling on the signal enough to justify a purchase. You and I know very well that in five years, the slow denigration of the AM dial will render WKNR completely uncompetitive in the market.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Maxwell was just talking about this an. He mentioned that he read (unbeknownst to him) that his show would do mornings on this hypothetical new FM sports station, then the rest of the day would be sports

Nice to see he's an apparent reader of the boards on here.

I'm hearing that a number of people one would normally think would be aligned with a CBS FM sports talker have nothing on it coming to Cleveland. Including the guy that helped establish their most successful sports talker in Detroit, who has been utilized by CBS ever since as their primary consultant.

I personally view the "PD search" as a bunch of hooey... as if, yet again, our legs are being pulled for amusement. Because anyone with half a brain would know that if a competitor to WKNR emerged on the FM dial - even without any major PBP in tow - WKNR gets wiped off the face of the Earth.

I'm sorry TANK1, but until there is tangible proof of some sort that this is even going to happen, there's nothing to say. It's just like speculating on Maxwell's future or moaning about Aaron Goldhammer and Chris Fedor's existence on this mortal coil - really, what good will it do?

 

[Capulet]

You and I know very well that in five years, the slow denigration of the AM dial will render WKNR completely uncompetitive in the market.
[/quote]

Not sure I agree with that. WKNR is making money now, but nowhere near the amount that would make a compititor come after them in the same format.

 

[vjm]

MEL is at sirius now where you been ?

I've been in San Antonio trying to see what kind of car Bob Pittman drives. ;D
Mel buys stations for his kid. Already bought 2 here. I doubt he buys an FM in this market.

After paying $2.5M for WWGK, I couldn't blame him. :

Although I don't think Mel's the only financier (i.e.: the Goldhammer family) but that's a subject for another thread...

And who knows? Maybe GKB DOES have the money to buy an FMer after all. Again, this hinges on the selling party (ELB or Salem) also low-balling on the signal enough to justify a purchase. You and I know very well that in five years, the slow denigration of the AM dial will render WKNR completely uncompetitive in the market.

Gotta mention this since GKB's "benefactor" was brought up.

The other day, Rizz and Hammer were arguing about OSU and the Tressel scandal.

Aaron claimed he had a better perspective due to the fact he lived and worked in "other markets", and didn't live in Ohio his whole life (insinuating he was more "worldly" than Tony, lifelong Ohioan who has "Scarlett and Gray blinders" on).

Hammer went down the list of all the places he "worked"...NYC, Milwaukee, Beaver Dam.

What he didn't mention...

NYC means he did college radio for NYU...which he attended on Daddy's dime.

Milwaukee and Beaver Dam = GKB stations...established on Daddy's dime.

This guy is a piece of work.

 

[Rusty Muck]

MEL is at sirius now where you been ?

I've been in San Antonio trying to see what kind of car Bob Pittman drives. ;D
Mel buys stations for his kid. Already bought 2 here. I doubt he buys an FM in this market.

After paying $2.5M for WWGK, I couldn't blame him. :

Although I don't think Mel's the only financier (i.e.: the Goldhammer family) but that's a subject for another thread...

And who knows? Maybe GKB DOES have the money to buy an FMer after all. Again, this hinges on the selling party (ELB or Salem) also low-balling on the signal enough to justify a purchase. You and I know very well that in five years, the slow denigration of the AM dial will render WKNR completely uncompetitive in the market.

Gotta mention this since GKB's "benefactor" was brought up.

The other day, Rizz and Hammer were arguing about OSU and the Tressel scandal.

Aaron claimed he had a better perspective due to the fact he lived and worked in "other markets", and didn't live in Ohio his whole life (insinuating he was more "worldly" than Tony, lifelong Ohioan who has "Scarlett and Gray blinders" on).

Hammer went down the list of all the places he "worked"...NYC, Milwaukee, Beaver Dam.

What he didn't mention...

NYC means he did college radio for NYU...which he attended on Daddy's dime.

Milwaukee and Beaver Dam = GKB stations...established on Daddy's dime.

This guy is a piece of work.

Priceless. It's why I gave up on tRBS outright back in 2008.

Forget Glenn Beck, Rover or Dan Patrick - even Laura Ingraham and Mike Gallagher are 1000% more entertaining to listen to that that dreck!

What I would give for this city to finally have an all-sports radio station...