New Stevie Nicks album on Classic Rock?

[TheBigA]

PD's that believe that are shortchanging their listeners, station ownership and the occasional artist that creates a timeless CR song.

If something spectacular comes out, like the last Eagles album, they reserve the right to play it. But they're not going to play a karaoke record just because it sounds like Led Zepplin. A lot of people in the CR audience recognize how derivative new music is, and a lot of them simply can't stand it. It takes a long time to earn the stature of being called "classic." One shouldn't be able to be placed along side the legends just because they can do a great imitation. They can watch that every night on American Idol or The Voice.

 

[Avid Listener]

PD's that believe that are shortchanging their listeners, station ownership and the occasional artist that creates a timeless CR song.

True, but PD's don't give a damn about their listeners, other than pandering to them to increase ratings. They only care about short-term profits for the ownership in the current quarter. And the only thing PD's care about artists is how to suck the artist's blood like the leeches that they are.

 

[TheBigA]

And the only thing PD's care about artists is how to suck the artist's blood like the leeches that they are.

By the same token, no one's forcing these artists to become multi-millionaire celebrities. They could just as easily labor in obscurity the rest of their lives. If you ask the artists (and I have), most don't mind the leeches as long at they can still have their gated mansions and private planes. What would really piss them off would be living alongside the leeches every day. That would just be unbearable.

 

[landtuna]

If something spectacular comes out, like the last Eagles album, they reserve the right to play it.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

And, of course, I am talking about a quality new CR song and not a cover or "sound alike" imitation. The whole idea is that a new CR song can fit the CR genre no matter when it was produced just as a new Disco song could fit "classic" Disco and so on. There are certain genre's where this doesn't work (Oldies, which are date driven is probably the best example) but otherwise time doesn't matter. Consider the Beach Boys' "Kokomo" which was released in Spring 1988 - fully 25 years after the peak of the Surf genre - which hit #1 in multiple countries.

 

[TheBigA]

Consider the Beach Boys' "Kokomo" which was released in Spring 1988 - fully 25 years after the peak of the Surf genre - which hit #1 in multiple countries.

Sure...it also had a hit movie starring Tom Cruise to help promote it. The success of that song had nothing to do with the Beach Boys. It would have been a hit with Al Jolson.

The word "classic" is not something one throws around lightly. It takes time to become a classic. As I said, the Classic Rock audience has certain expectations for their radio station. They tune in for classics. Something that was just recorded this year by an artist the same age as their son isn't a classic yet. A fine wine takes time.

 

[Avid Listener]

Recorded songs are products, like any other product. Promotion and advertising helps sell them. Radio airplay helps recording artists sell songs. Being included on the movie or TV show soundtrack also helps. Getting the last 5 minutes of Fallon or Letterman helps. Being the musical guest on SNL helps. But radio stations, especially radio stations playing genres of music defined by sound instead of by recording/release date, enjoy a mutual benefit from being able to air music that listeners like. It helps the artists and it helps the stations.

It took some time for "classic" rock to become "classic", just as it took time for classical music to become classic. However, once the parameters of what makes a piece of symphonic music "classical" are defined, then any skilled, talented composer can write brand new "classic" music which even highly trained musicologists will recognize as being "classical music", even if only a few months old. The soundtrack music John Williams wrote for the movie Star Wars is just as much bona-fide "classical" music as anything Wagner, Bach, or Beethoven wrote. (I would have also included Tschaikovsky, but I wasn't sure I could spell it.)

European bands like Within Temptation, Nightwish, Epica, and many, many others are writing and recording brand new, classic rock in the "Progressive Rock" sub-genre every bit as "classic" as anything by Pink Floyd, The Moody Blues, or Renaissance. Grace Potter and the Nocturnals are writing and recording classic rock in the blues-rock subgenre every bit as "classic" as Big Brother and the Holding Company.

The suits who automatically present a knee-jerk defense of the radio industry might point out isolated examples of bands who struck it rich, and who owe a portion of their success to radio airplay. The truth is, there are hundreds of other recording acts, bands and solo performers alike, that the music industry chews up and spits out after milking them for all they can. Radio people usually don't like to admit that they are a component of the music industry. They like to pretend that they're something different, and that the record labels are the real villains. The truth is that the record labels and radio industry are two cogs in the same machine.

 

[TheBigA]

The truth is that the record labels and radio industry are two cogs in the same machine.

You obviously know very little about both industries, other than you don't like either of them.

No real classical stations EVER played any of the John Williams sound tracks. Just because they use orchestras doesn't mean it's classical. Using that definition, Barry White could get airplay on a classical station. No highly trained musicologists EVER considered John Williams to be considered equal to real classical music. I worked with the folks at WGMS in Washington DC back in the day when they were among the highest rated classical stations in the country, and they absolutely refused to consider anything Williams did as "classical music." Their audience agreed. It's insulting to the music, insulting to the audience, and insulting to real classic artists to equate such crap with true classic music. I can pour you a glass of wine bottled last week that looks just like an expensive Bordeaux. That doesn't mean it's the same thing, or could be served in its place.

 

[Groove1670]

"Why shouldn't a new artist (or old artist who didn't have any hits back in the day) not also have his new recordings included on a classic rock format station so long as the overall sound of the song is clearly "classic"?"

It is very difficult for a classic rock artist to break new material. We expect to hear the favorites. I always felt bad when I was at a concert and a classic singer or band played a new single. The crowd got quiet, went for a beer or restroom break.

The same holds true for other formats. Elton John, and George Michael both have new singles (both peaked in the top 30 on the AC Chart).

Prince just signed with Warner again. Not for new material but for the catalog. Yes, he will release new material, but will the public embrace it. meh......

Same as it ever was.

 

[TheBigA]

It is very difficult for a classic rock artist to break new material. We expect to hear the favorites. I always felt bad when I was at a concert and a classic singer or band played a new single. The crowd got quiet, went for a beer or restroom break.

That's an important point. I remember when John Fogerty was battling with Saul Zantz about 25 years ago. Zantz owned Fantasy Records, Creedence Clearwater's label, and he managed to get a piece of their publishing. Fogerty resented it, so he decided to stop playing his Creedence hits, and just perform his solo songs. He saw very quickly that his audiences didn't come for the solo songs, and found a way to settle with Fantasy. Now Fogerty plays his old hits, and everyone is happy.

 

[Avid Listener]

It is very difficult for a classic rock artist to break new material. We expect to hear the favorites. I always felt bad when I was at a concert and a classic singer or band played a new single. The crowd got quiet, went for a beer or restroom break.

It has been my experience that at any concert for a classic rock artist, "deep cut" songs from their old albums were as popular with the fans are their radio airplay singles. You are correct about new release songs, though how well those go over often depend on how faithful the new songs are to the artists' original style, and how they're presented within the show. When an artist brings a show to a screeching halt to awkwardly introduce a new song, it is usually as you describe. When they simply segue from an old hit to a new release and then back to another old hit, the result is often quite different. I've been to some concerts by classic rock artists who throw in covers of other artists songs, which often gets excellent reactions.

The dynamics of live concert presentation are very, very complex. There are almost no acts, classic rock or other genres, who can simply walk out on stage and play a bunch of songs without careful consideration of at least the sequence of the setlist.

 

[vchimpanzee]

You obviously know very little about both industries, other than you don't like either of them.

No real classical stations EVER played any of the John Williams sound tracks. Just because they use orchestras doesn't mean it's classical. Using that definition, Barry White could get airplay on a classical station. No highly trained musicologists EVER considered John Williams to be considered equal to real classical music. I worked with the folks at WGMS in Washington DC back in the day when they were among the highest rated classical stations in the country, and they absolutely refused to consider anything Williams did as "classical music." Their audience agreed. It's insulting to the music, insulting to the audience, and insulting to real classic artists to equate such crap with true classic music. I can pour you a glass of wine bottled last week that looks just like an expensive Bordeaux. That doesn't mean it's the same thing, or could be served in its place.

WMUU in Greenville, SC, which doesn't claim to be classical, DOES play Williams and a lot of that type of music. They call it "beautiful". Sadly, it's only online now and yet another conservative talker is officially using those call letters.

 

[vchimpanzee]

You're right about A/C. Though dominated by artists like Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, etc., they also play new songs by Michael Bublé or Harry Connick, Jr.? Much of their music sounds like it could have been recorded in the 1950's, except for superior technical quality.

You're thinking of the standards radio format. Stations doing that are not called A/C. Even stations that are called A/C aren't doing A/C any more. They're doing what was until recntly called Hot A/C.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Consider the Beach Boys' "Kokomo" which was released in Spring 1988 - fully 25 years after the peak of the Surf genre - which hit #1 in multiple countries.

I heard it just this morning on America's Best Music.

 

[Avid Listener]

You're thinking of the standards radio format. Stations doing that are not called A/C. Even stations that are called A/C aren't doing A/C any more. They're doing what was until recntly called Hot A/C.

If you've read any of my posts, you know how little I care about what arbitrary labels the suits who run radio put on their researched-to-death, life-sucked-out, tight little tested playlist formats.