New subchannel for WFAA

[TexasTom]

Belo has signed up for ABC's "Live Well" subchannel in five markets, including Dallas/Fort Worth (WFAA). Belo's stations in Houston, San Antonio, and Austin are not included in the initial markets carrying this. Here the story from TV Newscheck: http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2010/09/29/45716/belo-to-air-abcs-live-well-in-five-markets

ABC has been airing "Live Well" in HD on the subchannels of their O&Os for a while, where reports have been pretty negative on how this impacts the image quality of both the main and subchannels. Since WFAA crossconverts their ABC programming to 1080i, the combination of a 1080i main channel and 720p subchannel would likely look even worse than the pairing of two 720p channels at the ABC O&Os.

The other question is what this will mean for WFAA's existing two subchannels -- in particular, it would be a shame to see "This TV" go away, so I'm hoping that it will get moved over to a subchannel at KFWD (which would be a really logical combination -- old movies on the subchannel would complement the old TV shows on the main channel at KFWD).

I guess we'll see how this all works out come November 8.

 

[Mediafrog+]

Belo has signed up for ABC's "Live Well" subchannel in five markets, including Dallas/Fort Worth (WFAA). Belo's stations in Houston, San Antonio, and Austin are not included in the initial markets carrying this.

ABC O&O KTRK in Houston already has LiveWell on 13.2, so not an option for KHOU.

 

[arnoldevns]

How about this: KFWD on 52.1 as a 1080i and Live Well on 52.2 as 720p.

Here's a question for people who know more about the rules than I do: since Belo controls both WFAA and KFWD, could they map something like 52.2 over to 8.4? I figure as long as they have 52 on 52.1, couldn't they map one of the KFWD subchannels over so that it looked like a subchannel of WFAA?

 

[mmnassour]

Hopefully, this will never come to Austin. The Spanish subchannel and the useless ( and I mean useless ) so-called weather channel are taking enough ones and zeroes from the main channel right now...and KVUE's HD is nothing to brag about to begin with.

 

[intx]

I'm not a weather fan either, but people pitched a fit when it disappeared for a while after the launch of Estrella on 24.2.

 

[mmnassour]

Well, at that point it was the REAL radar, with NWS weather radio audio behind it. Now, it's just old traffic reports, radar that's so small you can't see it, and out of date forecasts for small towns and MUSIC in the background.


And why won't they run the NWS radio?


Really pathetic, a classic fail. :

 

[fredcantu]

Their sister in S.A., KENS, runs NWS audio on their weather channel.

 

[mmnassour]

Just turn the knife in me, Fred, just turn the knife! ;D

 

[julesism]

i think yall are onto something regarding something showing up or moving to KFWD. 52.2 has been live for a while mirroring 52.1 so the subchannel is already lit. It just needs different content.

 

[JHBrandt]

Here's a question for people who know more about the rules than I do: since Belo controls both WFAA and KFWD, could they map something like 52.2 over to 8.4? I figure as long as they have 52 on 52.1, couldn't they map one of the KFWD subchannels over so that it looked like a subchannel of WFAA?

That is technically possible and I've heard that it's being done in some markets, but I suspect there are several tuners and converter boxes that wouldn't handle it properly.

And it wouldn't help much unless KFWD gives up any plans to broadcast their own HD content. Otherwise you're still talking about squeezing two HD subchannels onto one RF channel, and my understanding is that's a pretty tight fit, even if no other content is broadcast on that RF channel.

Incidentally, I prefer 5.2's weather. To each his own, I guess.

 

[arnoldevns]

My understanding is that you can reasonably fit 2 HDs and 1 SD channel on a typical 6MHZ digital frequency. KXII has CBS in 1080, FOX in 720 and My Network TV in 480 on their digital channel.
No reason why KFWD couldn't do 1080 on 52.1 and 720 on 52.2 (and maybe map that over to 8.4)

 

[w9wi]

My understanding is that you can reasonably fit 2 HDs and 1 SD channel on a typical 6MHZ digital frequency. KXII has CBS in 1080, FOX in 720 and My Network TV in 480 on their digital channel.
No reason why KFWD couldn't do 1080 on 52.1 and 720 on 52.2 (and maybe map that over to 8.4)

Many engineers would dispute the idea of two HDs on the same station.

In theory you can do just about anything -- in theory you could have dozens of HDs on the same transmitter. (If I recall properly there's an overall limit of 99 subchannels, just because that's all the standard allows for)

But the more subchannels you have, the more you have to compress them. The more likely any given subchannel is to run out of bandwidth, and start "pixellating". Statistical multiplexing (where the bandwidth allocation between subchannels is dynamic -- where 12.1 can call for more bandwidth when the program needs it) can help, but still you only get 19.2MB.

_________________________________________________

FWIW it's perfectly possible, from a technical standpoint, to map subchannels to any major/minor virtual channel you want. From a legal standpoint, your major channel (the "52" part in "52.1") must match your old analog channel, UNLESS.. you own another station in the same coverage area. In which case you can use its major channel if you want, since you have control of the minor channel numbers and can ensure the major/minor pair are unique.

In other words, as long as WFAA and KFWD are commonly controlled, you could indeed transmit 52.1 and 8.4 over the same transmitter.

 

[fredcantu]

What about the bandwidth issue? I've heard there is picture degradation is you try to squeeze too much-- i.e. two HD channels-- out of a single TV channel. I believe CBS forbids its O&Os from doing additional subchannels for that reason.

 

[arnoldevns]

Many engineers would dispute the idea of two HDs on the same station.

In theory you can do just about anything -- in theory you could have dozens of HDs on the same transmitter. (If I recall properly there's an overall limit of 99 subchannels, just because that's all the standard allows for)

But the more subchannels you have, the more you have to compress them. The more likely any given subchannel is to run out of bandwidth, and start "pixellating". Statistical multiplexing (where the bandwidth allocation between subchannels is dynamic -- where 12.1 can call for more bandwidth when the program needs it) can help, but still you only get 19.2MB.

An LPTV station in San Francisco does 12 SD streams on one digital channel. A station in Atlanta does the same and has several subchannels for radio stations too.

All I was really saying is that some stations have done two HD channels on one digital frequency. It's apparently a decent enough solution.

 

[JHBrandt]

All I was really saying is that some stations have done two HD channels on one digital frequency. It's apparently a decent enough solution.

You can fit two HDs and an SD on one channel - KXII does it and I believe KTEN does too. But the more you overtake the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain. KXII's HD channels pixellate noticeably on fast-moving video such as sports.

In the Texoma area it's worth the tradeoff, as it gives viewers all four major networks in HD, plus two minor networks in SD, despite the fact that the area is served by only two stations. But Dallas has enough bandwidth already - this is only an issue because one owner (Belo) wants to broadcast three different HD channels. If the new subchannel were slated for, say, KTAQ, everything would be fine.

If you're going to do it, the best way is to put two HD channels on one signal, and one HD plus both SDs on the other, in order to minimize the compression required.

 

[TexasTom]

In the Texoma area it's worth the tradeoff, as it gives viewers all four major networks in HD, plus two minor networks in SD, despite the fact that the area is served by only two stations. But Dallas has enough bandwidth already - this is only an issue because one owner (Belo) wants to broadcast three different HD channels. If the new subchannel were slated for, say, KTAQ, everything would be fine.

If you're going to do it, the best way is to put two HD channels on one signal, and one HD plus both SDs on the other, in order to minimize the compression required.

I agree with you on the Texoma tradeoff -- if I lived up there, I would rather have access to all the networks, even at the cost of some pixillation. Of course, I also don't care much about sports, which is where the pixillation is worst.

As for running both HD signals on one signal, and the HD plus two SDs on the other -- while not optimal, I would agree that also would make sense. I'll note that making both HDs 720p would also help.

 

[Gridlock Joe]

Not all the Belo stations will be broadcasting Live Well in HD. The network has dropped the "HD" from its name to reflect this.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/457792-Belo_Adds_ABC_s_Live_Well_Network.php

 

[Megapsycle]

Are the Dallas cable systems, ATT, Dish and Direct carrying 8.3 This TV? I can't imagine that not being a popular channel, if you can tolerate all the long commercial breaks and promos. There are way too many time consuming promos for upcoming programs which takes the pleasure out of watching a movie on This TV for me. They do show some good stuff on there once in a while.

 

[jd]

This TV's website shows it only on WFAA 8.3 and Charter.net channel 102.

 

[LibertyNT]

I actually Do like This TV. Since I don't have cable at the lake house,
"This" was a Great alternative, It's like AMC, but over the air.

I truly hope WFAA doesn't drop "This" for some health crap.