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New Thread...Underground Dance on Radio...

M

midwestclubber

Guest
You guys are being misslead slightly by what I wrote..... Why wouldnt this work,,, I mean, it works in every other country except the U.S... And why is it, that Dance stations should only target women... I dont even personally know only Female Dance fans, other than my girlfriend, whom I converted from Hip Hop- and Grunge rock.... Why is it that guys are stuck with only Rock stations targeting them, Are men not entitled to hearing some of the More Agressive,,, Dance music. Im a man, and I spend money,,, I go to clubs, I buy alot of NEW Electronic Devices,,, PC Devices, Dance Music CDS, Car accessories, Stereo Equipment,,, We both Eat out alot... So why am I,,, A 29 yr old male not wanted to be targeted by radio... And I dont mean a station that plays back to back instrumental tracks... Go to www.xmradio.com.. And Check out Channel 80 (THE MOVE), This is the best thing to happen to U.S Dance Radio. Plays the perfect mix of HOUSE-Progressive-Some Trance,,, and alot of Mixshows, and it seems to slightly change its sound every hour or two,,, as it is Block Programming... This is BAR NONE better than anything Dance on U.S FM,,, and better than all other Satelite-National Dance Stations, and the closest sounding to a European Dance station. Also,,,, Groove Radio in L.A (IF NOT MISTAKEN) got higher numbers than anything else on 103.1 since.. Also... Party 93.1 had better numbers when they first started as an Edgier station,,, Before they Drown it out with Repetative cheese... The same thing happened to Mega 93.3 in Austin,,, They tanked even further the more mainstream they got, untill going Hip hop.
 
For real. This is a good topic Midwestclubber (though I'm not sure about your comments on Grrove in L.A.)

PS you're 29? Weren't you 23 last year? LOL

> You guys are being misslead slightly by what I wrote.....
> Why wouldnt this work,,, I mean, it works in every other
> country except the U.S... And why is it, that Dance stations
> should only target women... I dont even personally know only
> Female Dance fans, other than my girlfriend, whom I
> converted from Hip Hop- and Grunge rock.... Why is it that
> guys are stuck with only Rock stations targeting them, Are
> men not entitled to hearing some of the More Agressive,,,
> Dance music. Im a man, and I spend money,,, I go to clubs,
> I buy alot of NEW Electronic Devices,,, PC Devices, Dance
> Music CDS, Car accessories, Stereo Equipment,,, We both Eat
> out alot... So why am I,,, A 29 yr old male not wanted to be
> targeted by radio... And I dont mean a station that plays
> back to back instrumental tracks... Go to www.xmradio.com..
> And Check out Channel 80 (THE MOVE), This is the best thing
> to happen to U.S Dance Radio. Plays the perfect mix of
> HOUSE-Progressive-Some Trance,,, and alot of Mixshows, and
> it seems to slightly change its sound every hour or two,,,
> as it is Block Programming... This is BAR NONE better than
> anything Dance on U.S FM,,, and better than all other
> Satelite-National Dance Stations, and the closest sounding
> to a European Dance station. Also,,,, Groove Radio in L.A
> (IF NOT MISTAKEN) got higher numbers than anything else on
> 103.1 since.. Also... Party 93.1 had better numbers when
> they first started as an Edgier station,,, Before they Drown
> it out with Repetative cheese... The same thing happened
> to Mega 93.3 in Austin,,, They tanked even further the more
> mainstream they got, untill going Hip hop.
>
 
They are going after women because thats where the money is. You are being negative towards Pop dance music calling it cheese. No one has ever ripped the more aggressive dance music. We have only said it wont work on a US radio station in rotation. I think you need to read below. By your statements you dont understand how radio works, you are listening to niche stations that do not appeal to the masses. Thats top 40 stations are called pop stations cause they do appeal to the masses


I think you need to take radio 001 before you can talk about what a PD shouldnt play.

1. Have you ever heard of call out research? I am not a huge fan of it but a lot of the major companies use this. What do they need from a song? A hook No hook no add. Someone was talking about classic rock. People can sing a long.

2. What demo do most CHR's go after? Females!!!!! Why would a CHR programmer care about a male demo graphic?

3. Have you seen any dance artists perform? They typically are eye candy. Lucas Prata attracks the females. Kim Sozzi, Kristine Hendricks, Danielle Bollinger, Jenn Cunnetta they are all hot. I guess Im gay for liking to watch them perform.

4. How many over the air commercial dance stations are there? I believe that number is a whopping 4. And lets break that one down. One has a no repeat work day and plays mostly golds, one has a bad signal, one is a city that is rebuilding from a major disaster and the other just changed manageement. So if were an artist, is this going to make you become a household name? From the labels perspective, will this sell a ton of tracks? If I was Robbins I would want a 120 spins of Cascada on pop stations in every major market because I am gonna make money and it will help other tracks get airplay.
 
I know that both me and Midwestclubber listen to quite a bit of CHR/Pop radio (hence all of our positive posts on the CHR/Pop board). Those stations play the hits, and some of the biggest records there are very cheesy. That's not to say I don't enjoy listening to some of them, but that's essentially what they are.

> They are going after women because thats where the money is.
> You are being negative towards Pop dance music calling it
> cheese. No one has ever ripped the more aggressive dance
> music. We have only said it wont work on a US radio station
> in rotation. I think you need to read below. By your
> statements you dont understand how radio works, you are
> listening to niche stations that do not appeal to the
> masses. Thats top 40 stations are called pop stations cause
> they do appeal to the masses
>
 
> For real. This is a good topic Midwestclubber (though I'm
> not sure about your comments on Grrove in L.A.)
>
> PS you're 29? Weren't you 23 last year? LOL
>
..........LOL.....TYPO ABOVE....I am most definatly 25 Yrs old This yr,, and 24 last year actually...Birthdate 11/10/80.......... Yes Brett, I do know what Call out research is,, though im not a fan of it,, due to the fact that it has very limited choices, and a lack of participators... Brett,, You do know that I am a fan of yours, and do like all styles of Dance, both Mainstream-Underground-Proggressive, and Classic stuff,,, it isnt me that is calling them cheese, its the DJs and Hardcore Dance Fans. I like to listen to stations like Iparty, and Energy 98, other than my Girlfriend, and a few girls we used to share an aprtment with, (for 3 months last winter) I havent known too many people to heavily embrace Mainstream Female Vocal Dance, other than people/girls mostly that also enjoy CHR POP, and Hip Hop as well.... Also, Not all songs that end up on Dance radio are Cheese, and not all of them are female vocals either,,, I am in no way Knocking mainstream dance in any way,, Its just I think more Aggressive dance should be exposed,, and getting Dance to be more conservative is not the way to move forward,,,, but getting it to be more mass appeal is. And I for one am a Big Supporter of Robbins, they grab the hottest Dance tracks, and put them on U.S Radio and clubs,,, This label is doing the best for Dance music right now, Cascada and DHT are NOT Cheese,,, They both have Hard Pounding beats, Good Vocals, Beautiful Girl Singers, and a touch of Euro......... And as Jimi Lalumia says... Why not test his music, and see what happens.

> > Why wouldnt this work,,, I mean, it works in every other
> > country except the U.S... And why is it, that Dance
> stations
> > should only target women... I dont even personally know
> only
> > Female Dance fans, other than my girlfriend, whom I
> > converted from Hip Hop- and Grunge rock.... Why is it that
>
> > guys are stuck with only Rock stations targeting them, Are
>
> > men not entitled to hearing some of the More Agressive,,,
> > Dance music. Im a man, and I spend money,,, I go to
> clubs,
> > I buy alot of NEW Electronic Devices,,, PC Devices, Dance
> > Music CDS, Car accessories, Stereo Equipment,,, We both
> Eat
> > out alot... So why am I,,, A 29 yr old male not wanted to
> be
> > targeted by radio... And I dont mean a station that plays
>
> > back to back instrumental tracks... Go to
> www.xmradio.com..
> > And Check out Channel 80 (THE MOVE), This is the best
> thing
> > to happen to U.S Dance Radio. Plays the perfect mix of
> > HOUSE-Progressive-Some Trance,,, and alot of Mixshows, and
>
> > it seems to slightly change its sound every hour or two,,,
>
> > as it is Block Programming... This is BAR NONE better than
>
> > anything Dance on U.S FM,,, and better than all other
> > Satelite-National Dance Stations, and the closest sounding
>
> > to a European Dance station. Also,,,, Groove Radio in L.A
>
> > (IF NOT MISTAKEN) got higher numbers than anything else on
>
> > 103.1 since.. Also... Party 93.1 had better numbers when
> > they first started as an Edgier station,,, Before they
> Drown
> > it out with Repetative cheese... The same thing happened
>
> > to Mega 93.3 in Austin,,, They tanked even further the
> more
> > mainstream they got, untill going Hip hop.
> >
>
 
> I thought he was 14
>
And I thought you were 114....LOL... Actually your probably not that much older than me,, You might have 8-10 yrs on me.
 
you are missing the whole point. You can have a format do well that is too much of a niche. Pop dance music has the ability to cross over and is what is considered radio friendly. Programmers are listening for the song not the beats. Radio is all about mass appreal. That is the point. I love aggressive balls to wall dance music too but we are talking radio and building an audience.
 
> you are missing the whole point. You can have a format do
> well that is too much of a niche. Pop dance music has the
> ability to cross over and is what is considered radio
> friendly. Programmers are listening for the song not the
> beats. Radio is all about mass appreal. That is the point.
> I love aggressive balls to wall dance music too but we are
> talking radio and building an audience.
>
It doesnt have to be aggressive as in Hard Music,,, Im talking about music like Deep House as well, both Vocal and none. Deep house makes a really good Morning environment, Especially between 9.00 and 11.00 P.m ... Their is plenty of Vocal stuff out their, no Problem. The only slight problem is, Lack of Familier artists, and getting familier with any particular song. I do beleive that the same artists-vocalists do need to do more songs. But also, people need to learn about the DJs too, they need to know what DJ culture is in order to fully understand, and enjoy the music. Otherwise alot of people honestly dont know the purpose of music like this.
 
> And I thought you were 114

LOL

Midwest - I agree with your sentiment.

The vast majority of the Mainstream Dance stations online/offline/satellite are way too poppy and female-vocal-laden for my tastes. An exception is Energy Arizona.
 
Re: In reply to Dancerev..

> > And I thought you were 114
>
> LOL
>
> Midwest - I agree with your sentiment.
>
> The vast majority of the Mainstream Dance stations
> online/offline/satellite are way too poppy and
> female-vocal-laden for my tastes. An exception is Energy
> Arizona.
>
Well, If radio in the U.S has to be Repetative and predictable, then ill stick to Streaming the (REAL DANCE) stations and Mixshows from Europe, and beyond. And as long as the XM satelites dont crash and Burn, I,ll have the dance stations on their as well. Again,, Why are only Rock stations, and Shock Jocks like Howard Stern, the only outlets to target men?
 
Re: In reply to Dancerev..

cause Howard Stern talks about having sex with hot chicks

Go ahead listen to the internet stations cause the over the air stations are not targeting you so they dont care
 
Thanks for starting a new thread on this. It would have been annoying to continue the discussion in the other thread!



<font size=1>You guys are being misslead slightly by what I wrote..... Why wouldnt this work,,, I mean, it works in every other country except the U.S... And why is it, that Dance stations should only target women...</font>



<font size=2>Dance stations are presented as CHR stations, and CHR stations usually target women 18-34 (though there are exceptions to the rule). Dance music on the radio has received its best success when presented as a dance/CHR, meaning tight rotations, tight transitions, energetic presentations, heavy promotions, and emphasizing personality.</font>



<font size=1>Why is it that guys are stuck with only Rock stations targeting them, Are men not entitled to hearing some of the More Agressive, Dance music. Im a man, and I spend money, I go to clubs, I buy alot of NEW Electronic Devices, PC Devices, Dance Music CDS, Car accessories, Stereo Equipment,,, We both Eat out alot... So why am I, A 29 yr old male not wanted to be targeted by radio...</font>



<font size=2>Because the majority of companies that advertise on the radio are seeking women. How many times have you heard a radio spot promoting the latest in plasma-screen TVs, car spoiler wings, or iPods on a CHR or dance station? The majority of 18-34 demographic spot inventory out there is sold to a female audience because they traditionally have greater spending habits, and the companies that use radio advertising usually are leaning toward a female audience.</font>

<font size=2>Yes, there are stations that target men-- but generally those stations target men 25-54 because there is greater spot revenue in that demo compared to men 18-34 (or worse, men 18-24). You won't find many companies that will do radio advertising for those demos. Remember, radio is about bringing in the most REVENUE-- not about promoting scenes or cool music.</font>



<font size=1>And I dont mean a station that plays back to back instrumental tracks... Go to www.xmradio.com.. And Check out Channel 80 (THE MOVE), This is the best thing to happen to U.S Dance Radio. Plays the perfect mix of HOUSE-Progressive-Some Trance,,, and alot of Mixshows, and it seems to slightly change its sound every hour or two,,, as it is Block Programming... This is BAR NONE better than anything Dance on U.S FM,,, and better than all other satelite-National Dance Stations, and the closest sounding to a European Dance station.</font>



<font size=2>You just said it. A EUROPEAN dance station. We are in AMERICA, and what works in Europe doesn't translate here. Again, I must pound this cold fact of reality-- American commercial radio is about reaching out to as much people as they can, and they do this by airing MASS APPEAL formats. Block formatting does not generate ratings. It doesn't work-- if it did, then Clear Channel, CBS Radio, Cumulus, Citadel, and Entercom would have transformed their stations to block formatting several decades ago in response to TV.</font>


<font size=2>It's great that you like XM 80 The Move. Great for XM. Keep in mind that XM is interested in OVERALL subscribers to its ENTIRE service, not exactly worrying too much about the amount of listeners PER CHANNEL. XM and Sirius both have massive bandwidth to play with, so they could afford to offer that type of music. But also remember that they do not depend on spot revenue-- they depend on subscribers coughing up cash to keep them running. How many subscribers do XM and Sirius have combined? Maybe somewhere around 12 million, and that's probably being generous.</font>


<font size=2>On the other hand, terrestrial radio is limited on bandwidth and signal, but they serve well over a HUNDRED MILLION people. By necessity, they are extremely competitive for BILLIONS OF DOLLARS of spot revenue. There is only room for winning formats that draw in RATINGS and AD REVENUE. Sorry, but formats like XM's The Move just would not succeed in the competitive industry of terrestrial radio.</font>



<font size=1>Also,,,, Groove Radio in L.A (IF NOT MISTAKEN) got higher numbers than anything else on 103.1 since.. Also... Party 93.1 had better numbers when they first started as an Edgier station,,, Before they Drown it out with Repetative cheese... The same thing happened to Mega 93.3 in Austin,,, They tanked even further the more mainstream they got, untill going Hip hop.
</font>



<font size=2>I can't compare and confirm ratings for KACD/KBCD to know for sure, but Groove Radio's BILLING does not compare to Indie 103.1. And money talks. In my opinion, Party 93.1's 12+ numbers went down because their female listenership was bleeding back to stations like Power 96 and Y100.7. I could be wrong, but I believe Party 93.1's re-emphasis on becoming more mainstream was an effort to try to win back more of their female demo.


And believe it or not, but most dance stations actually attracted more male listeners than female. Looking back at Energy 92.7/5's numbers, I saw that there were several books where male listeners outnumbered females in the key demos.


Mainstream dance music does not equal "cheesy" female vocals. Do you believe most of Energy 92.7/5's music were "cheesy" female vocals? I do recall a balance that also included some pop and hip-hop (Christina Aguilera, Pink, Janet Jackson, Shakira, Mary J Blige, Usher), downtempo mellow tracks like Paul Oakenfold's "Starry Eyed Surprise" and Crazy Town "Butterfly", high-energy instrumentals like Darude "Sandstorm" and Zombie Nation "Kernkraft 400", and male vocal club tracks like Modjo "Lady" and Daft Punk "One More Time". A good programmer recognizes the need for balance in a playlist that promotes the best MASS APPEAL, and knows when and how to add tracks that cross over from pop, rock, hip-hop, and R&B.


Sorry, but you just won't find any commercial terrestrial radio station operator willing to gamble on a mixshow-heavy, underground dance music format. There is just too much advertising revenue at stake.</font>

P.S. By the way, I really do respect what you have been doing for dance radio and enjoy reading your posts. We just have different approaches to it.

<P ID="signature">______________
radioinfosignature.gif
</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Jammin'Down JD on 04/06/06 06:15 AM.</FONT></P>
 
> They are going after women because thats where the money is.
> You are being negative towards Pop dance music calling it
> cheese. No one has ever ripped the more aggressive dance
> music. We have only said it wont work on a US radio station
> in rotation. I think you need to read below. By your
> statements you dont understand how radio works, you are
> listening to niche stations that do not appeal to the
> masses. Thats top 40 stations are called pop stations cause
> they do appeal to the masses
>
>
> I think you need to take radio 001 before you can talk about
> what a PD shouldnt play.
>
> 1. Have you ever heard of call out research? I am not a huge
> fan of it but a lot of the major companies use this. What do
> they need from a song? A hook No hook no add. Someone was
> talking about classic rock. People can sing a long.
>
> 2. What demo do most CHR's go after? Females!!!!! Why would
> a CHR programmer care about a male demo graphic?
>
> 3. Have you seen any dance artists perform? They typically
> are eye candy. Lucas Prata attracks the females. Kim Sozzi,
> Kristine Hendricks, Danielle Bollinger, Jenn Cunnetta they
> are all hot. I guess Im gay for liking to watch them
> perform.
>
> 4. How many over the air commercial dance stations are
> there? I believe that number is a whopping 4. And lets break
> that one down. One has a no repeat work day and plays mostly
> golds, one has a bad signal, one is a city that is
> rebuilding from a major disaster and the other just changed
> manageement. So if were an artist, is this going to make you
> become a household name? From the labels perspective, will
> this sell a ton of tracks? If I was Robbins I would want a
> 120 spins of Cascada on pop stations in every major market
> because I am gonna make money and it will help other tracks
> get airplay.
>

It took me a bit of time to respond to this post since it really made me think.

As much as I support and respect midwestclubber's thoughts since everyone in here knows how I feel about current dance, these are the rare moments where I play "devil's advocate". Not saying that dancerev889 is the "devil", LOL, but he does bring up good points. Don't get me wrong, I am still SCREAMING for something to happen in New York City but in some ways, we have to make our music stronger somehow. And if it takes a Cascada to do it, then I am all for it. And the one thing about CHR...it is mainstream and dance music in some way shape or form has to go mainstream and be strong with it to get more people involved in order for them to become more accepting to the edgier stuff. Z-103 in Toronto proves that theory. Strong CHR, strong with dance...does well in the market.

And love it or hate it, dance music does tend to appeal to females more. Not saying that guys aren't into it. But let's face it, when you hit the clubs you see the ladies out there dancing more..if no guy dances with them, they dance with their girlfriends. They buy up the latest fashions, can be easily targeted with certain products, etc.

I truly believe the female demo can get into the currents, they just need the exposure to it. For me I don't have to go far for my proof. Sure, Party 105.3 in Long Island has a crappy signal. But for the ladies that do live out there, they do know about Bob Sinclair, Hi-Tack, Ferry Corsten, Judge Jules, Aaron Smith, etc.

Unfortunately I don't have satellite radio but based on the many positive comments about XM, I should hop on it. But to conclude this..YES, I am pushing my damndest for the underground to rise up but it has been an uphill struggle. And more things have to happen for dance music in a main arena.

BTW, for those in NYC, Madonna tickets on sale Monday (4-10). And if watching dance music artists perform makes me gay...then I'm out! :) LOL

TS
 
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