New Tripoli, Pa Church Station?

[AZOOTEN]

Out of curiousity, I went on a transmitter hunt over near New tripoli.
Radio locator said there was a station on 99.3 fm So I drove over there to see if I could hear it.
And I did, it appears it comes from "Northern Valley evangelical church on gun club road.
Now any other time I would be like "Cool" I found there transmitter site.
But I believe there antenna is inside the Cross on the West wall of the church.
or its in the attic, but I get an extremely strong signal right in front of the cross.
this is a licensed translator anyone have any info on what there using for an antenna, you don't see any antenna on the building, but you can detect a strong signal coming from the building.
I find it interesting, Im a bit fascinated by radio and how it works.
the signal covered all the way to Pine creek road and route 143.
before totally dropping out and 99.3 fm from harrisburg and some other station playing christmas music was fighting for the frequency.
anybody else out here find this kind of stuff fascinating.

 

[edarmsttrong]

W257BW-FM Technical Info:
Station Status Licensed Class D FM Translator
Parent Station WJCS-FM
Area of Coverage View Coverage Map
Effective Radiated Power 20 Watts
Height above Ground Level 8 meters (26 feet)
Height above Sea Level 209 meters (686 feet)
Antenna Pattern Non-Directional
Transmitter Location 40° 41' 20" N, 75° 46' 29" W
License Granted September 14 2007
License Expires August 01 2014
Last FCC Update September 14 2007

They are using a PSI FML series antenna: http://www.psibroadcast.com/antenna-fm.asp

At 26 Feet off of the ground, it could very well be in their attic...

 

[AZOOTEN]

Thanks for the reply ED And Merry Christmas.
They definetly must have it in the attic, that would be to big to fit inside the cross.
I wonder why they didn't place it on the roof, that would have made more sense, get the aerial up high.
Nice antenna they have by the way.
Here's another question:
Do you believe that a 1/4 wave ground plane would out perform a 5/8 wave comet in this hilly terrain.
I get mixed messages from people online, that say the 1/4 wave would outperform in a hilly area.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

They definetly must have it in the attic, that would be to big to fit inside the cross.
I wonder why they didn't place it on the roof, that would have made more sense, get the aerial up high.
Nice antenna they have by the way.

Could be a zoning issue. As a backlash to the epidemic of cell phone towers, many local governments have gotten really tough about allowing VISIBLE antennas and structures. Thus, hide it in the attic. It can also be an insurance issue. Some insurance companies assume an antenna sticking up from a structure is a candidate for wind damage and a claim so they put a high premium charge for them on the policy.

Here's another question:
Do you believe that a 1/4 wave ground plane would out perform a 5/8 wave comet in this hilly terrain.
I get mixed messages from people online, that say the 1/4 wave would outperform in a hilly area.

Can the antennas you mentioned be used on a FCC LICENSED FM ? I was under the impression those are used by people doing Part 15 type broadcasting. What power output are you considering? Will it reach out far enough for "hilly area" to be an issue?

 

[AZOOTEN]

Yeah, Im considering doing a Part 15 fm in my community and was wondering which would be the better antenna, to get the tiny little signal out the furthest.
I think part 15 is 1/4 of a watt am I correct?
I know its very low and the local college here does one and there using a comet 5/8 antenna.
there lucky if they make it down the street.
would it be possible to actually get a license and have higher power?
from what I hear it's pretty much impossible if you don't have deep pockets.
Im not looking at running 24/7 anyways, just on weekends and pretty much just serving my small community.
basically just a hobby for fun.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Yeah, Im considering doing a Part 15 fm in my community and was wondering which would be the better antenna, to get the tiny little signal out the furthest.
I think part 15 is 1/4 of a watt am I correct?

Do your research well. There are some people selling equipment for this kind of installation that sometimes push the limit. If you do it wrong and the FCC comes knocking, they will be addressing the letter to you about fines to be paid, not the person who sold you the stuff.

The FCC rule does not talk about watts or fractions of watts. They state that your signal must not exceed 150 microvolts per meter at a distance of 3 meters from your antenna. (That measurement is taken at 10 feet from your antenna.) If you buy a better antenna, then you must turn down your transmitter to make up for it. Install a crummy antenna and you can maybe crank up the transmitter just a bit.

I just did a Google for all this information and the results you get are scary. One site states your maximum transmitter output must be 1/10th of a watt or less. Another site claims you can have a signal of 250 microvolts per meter at 3 meters from your antenna. (FCC Site says 150 microvolts)

I went looking a retail for the best little transmitter I could buy. They sell the kind designed to get the output of your ipod to your car radio, etc. I wanted something that would cover my small house. I get 6 to 10 feet if lucky.

You will find some good info at www.fcc.gov/lpfm/

 

[edarmsttrong]

Part 15.239 allows 250 uV/m at 3 meters...very low power. There is some confusion as to how that works to wattage. Were talking power in the nanowatt range, and if the transmitter covers more than 200 feet, it is more than likely illegal.

AM, on the other hand is permitted 100 milliwatts, which is 1/10 of a watt. The transmitter is allowed 100 milliwatts in the final RF stage, into an antenna no longer than 3 meters. That 3 meters also includes the antenna, ground lead (if used) and the transmission line. Coverage of about a mile is possible, with an efficient antenna system.

 

[AZOOTEN]

Well that sucks, with that low of power, your lucky if your neighbors hear you.
I guess the college station is illegal then, because I can pick them up half a mile away on fm.
So is it possible to get a license or do I have to take the "Radio Free Berkely" route.
I know all about the people selling the good stuff.
Who is this FCC anyway and why do they think they own GOD"S Airwaves.
I wonder if you can Take the little spot of property your transmitter sits on and succeed from the United States. put yourself out of there jurisdiction.
besides america is going bankrupt, they can't afford to chase all the people down, that is buying Berkely transmitters and "HLLY"s" and WHOLE HOUSE RANGESTUDS FROM Drago electronics. HLLY"S SUCK anyway, to much HUM in the audio. and not enough power.

 

[AZOOTEN]

Go on youtube, you won't believe the amount of transmitters on air in this country and the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgg-FxTJT50
check out that video, watch part 1,2 and 3 and tell me why this guy never got busted.
I hear in New york city every free spot on the dial has an unlicensed signal.
And the Ham Depot down in deleware will sell you a broadcast antenna for the 88-108 mhz band, so what gives. Im just confused, that all this is going on and Im being told I can only have 1/10 of a watt.
I might as well not even try......

 

[AZOOTEN]

I think it's useless, After thinking about what you said about low power and after sitting up on MT.Penn today and seeing there's not one clear available frequency anyways, why even bother.
BUT it sure would be tempting to rent a RV and spend a weekend up there parked near the fire tower and blasting 100 watts over reading.
imagine how far you would reach.
and before the fcc got to you, you would just drive away ;D

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I understand your frustration, my friend. But consider the alternative. Chaos. Anarchy. Civil unrest.

Freedom is a wonderful thing. The thought that I can do anything I want to, any time I want to appeals to mankind. But you are free only if you are willing to let your next door neighbor be free also. If you invest in building a fine radio station, how free would you be if your next door neighbor bought a bigger transmitter on the same frequency and drowned you out? Would you still be enjoying freedom?

There are a lot of problems with communications law and practice today. Become a legislator and help write new laws that you believe are more equitable, more serving of the public. But don't be a character that could be part of the Peanuts cartoon strip... some guy sitting in the corner with a blanket over your shoulder, sucking on your thumb and crying because you don't like the rules.

So, if you bought a 100 watt transmitter today, and a decent antenna, and you took your motor home up on some hilltop scenic view and let the electrons pour out, what would you broadcast that is so important, so inspiring, so compelling that it would be worth big fines or even jail time? And would the listening public miss you when they hauled you away?

If you are indeed a talented programmer, get into the system. Someone will pay you to dispense your genius.

 

[AZOOTEN]

Talented? OH Hell, I better just stay off the air then, I was just gonna hook it up and play music off my ipod
and if you had a neighbor that was such a ****** to over-power you, then that neighbor would have a shovel meet the backside of his head on some late foggy night as he went to his car ;D the street sweeper could pick up his body in the morning. hahahaha

 

[AZOOTEN]

I still can't believe they would send someone to jail for playing music on the air, like thats some terrible crime, right up there with bank robbery and murder.
I also can't believe the people who go around, who have no authority, like Amateur radio people and trying to find unlicensed signals.
like it's any of there business.
I had that happen when I was running a station back in my teenage years back in ohio, this creep parked right in front of my parents house and had the arrogance to walk around the property, I went out and told him to get off the property because it was private and that I was calling the cops, can you believe the arrogance of these people.
if I ever do that again, Im gonna have the shovel ready ;D
like they always say, you stick your nose in other peoples business you might get your nose chopped off.

 

[w9wi]

I still can't believe they would send someone to jail for playing music on the air, like thats some terrible crime, right up there with bank robbery and murder.
I also can't believe the people who go around, who have no authority, like Amateur radio people and trying to find unlicensed signals.
like it's any of there business.
I had that happen when I was running a station back in my teenage years back in ohio, this creep parked right in front of my parents house and had the arrogance to walk around the property, I went out and told him to get off the property because it was private and that I was calling the cops, can you believe the arrogance of these people.
if I ever do that again, Im gonna have the shovel ready ;D
like they always say, you stick your nose in other peoples business you might get your nose chopped off.

Can't say I've heard of anyone going to jail for pirate broadcasting in the U.S. in the last 20 years. Significant fines, on the other hand, can and do happen. They're generally accompanied by forfeiture of equipment. Not just the transmitter and antenna, but any audio gear the marshals think might be involved.

In some areas, I don't think I'd be nearly as worried about interfering with a licensed station & getting busted by the FCC, as I'd be worried about interfering with another pirate, and facing "private penalties" well beyond what the Communications Act allows.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Can't say I've heard of anyone going to jail for pirate broadcasting in the U.S. in the last 20 years. Significant fines, on the other hand, can and do happen. They're generally accompanied by forfeiture of equipment. Not just the transmitter and antenna, but any audio gear the marshals think might be involved.

I really wasn't thinking that someone would go to jail for running a pirate radio station. I was contemplating that someone who feels the government has no authority to limit something the someone wants to do could end up in jail sooner or later. It's none of the government's business if I want to sell unregistered investments. It's none of the governments business if I want to carry my gun through the airport check-in. It's none of the government's business if I decide my neighbor should be whacked with a shovel. It's none of the government's business that my girlfriend is only 13 years old.

Maybe someday our friend AZOOTEN can sit on the jury in a murder case. I did, and it gives you a very sober feeling to realize that it is not some strange foreign spirit-being that will send someone to jail, but it is YOU and eleven of your fellow citizens. Real people with real names, living in real houses, sending their kids to real schools, and working real jobs for real paychecks. Welcome to civilized society, Mr. Azooten.

 

[w9wi]

Can't say I've heard of anyone going to jail for pirate broadcasting in the U.S. in the last 20 years. Significant fines, on the other hand, can and do happen. They're generally accompanied by forfeiture of equipment. Not just the transmitter and antenna, but any audio gear the marshals think might be involved.

I really wasn't thinking that someone would go to jail for running a pirate radio station. I was contemplating that someone who feels the government has no authority to limit something the someone wants to do could end up in jail sooner or later. It's none of the government's business if I want to sell unregistered investments. It's none of the governments business if I want to carry my gun through the airport check-in. It's none of the government's business if I decide my neighbor should be whacked with a shovel. It's none of the government's business that my girlfriend is only 13 years old.

Maybe someday our friend AZOOTEN can sit on the jury in a murder case. I did, and it gives you a very sober feeling to realize that it is not some strange foreign spirit-being that will send someone to jail, but it is YOU and eleven of your fellow citizens. Real people with real names, living in real houses, sending their kids to real schools, and working real jobs for real paychecks. Welcome to civilized society, Mr. Azooten.

Very true, and if that's his actual real-life attitude (not an Internet persona) it may well catch up with him soon enough.

 

[AZOOTEN]

It Just Might, But I wouldn;t want to be the one who caught up with me.
I hold a grudge and I don't forget, that person who caught up will have to spend there life alway's looking over there shoulder.
like I said, People who stick there noses in other peoples business, well you know the rest.... I Din't come on here to argue, I just wanted some info on Antennas originally, how the conversation steered this way I don't know.
All this talk of FCC and rules and chaos and civil rules.
Really I just wanted to know which was better a 1/4 wave or 5/8 wave antenna for FM broadcast, I don't really care about any of that rules and regulations crap, the FCC doesn't recognize Foreign built equiptment anyways.
So they can take your transmitter and antenna, Do you know how easy it is to have another one as a back up and an antenna can be thrown up in a matter of hours.
take the entire music collection another one can be downloaded in a few hours.
take the computers, Best buy or any resale electronics place will sell you another one.
Hell I got three computers....
and fines won't work, especially when you don't acknowledge the fine and refuse to pay.
or even worse just quit your job and live off the government, haha then they can just collect the money that they pay me.
or they can send me to jail, then they can cloth and feed me and I will just lay around and sleep all day.
tired of working all friggin week anyways.
work work work, thats all i do, I expect to get some fun out of this life.
well, I got to go, it's about time for Sign-Off. ;D part 15 What a JOKE!