New Urban on the way to Houston ?

[jd]

Cox is having much success with the simulcast of KGLK on 106.9 causing The Arrow to slip further and further back in the ratings. Spinning it off would be just plain stupid. The Arrow seems like the likely candidate to change.

You've just said what many people have chosen to ignore. As mentioned on page one of this thread the Arrow seems to be the one that will switch. And no, I don't believe anybody at All Access was punked with a fake story.

 

[rageradio]

The Eagle has been smoking KKRW for a while now. Forget heritage and 20 years of being Houston's classic rock station. We all know those things don't matter to corporate radio. To a lesser degree, maybe... retaining long time call letters as a way of saying, "Yes we know what this station once was". The Eagle has great coverage on the north and south ends of town. Their presentation is much better than the arrow. They sound like what a radio station should sound like. The jocks sound knowledegable and dont sound like they are just reading cards. The listener can feel as if their station is accessible to them, i.e., the 3 O'Clock Pick Me Up. That app thing really does work! My songs have been played... and I go for the rare and less likely to get played.

Anyway.. KKRW is currently sitting at 17th place and falling. That seems to be kind of a magic number from the past format changes I've seen and articles I've read in the paper. KGLK is currently leading at 11th. Currently up .4 from July and down .1 from September. Not bad.

 

[rageradio]

Univision is a possible candidate as well since ratings for their stronger rimshot, KAMA, have been in the gutter lately. But I would instead bet my money on The Arrow flipping to it indeed, for a few reasons:

- They have been getting creamed book by book by the powerhouse Eagle, thanks to their 2 frequencies.
- The Boxx has been constantly number 1 or number 2 across the board book by book.
- Clear Channel has been launching Urban stations in a few markets across the country lately (Miami being one of them with the return of 103.5 The Beat)

But if this rumor is true all I can say is: FINALLY!!!!!!!!

Univision has been there and done that with 104.9. I just don't see them going back to Urban.

 

[kilamanjero]

Stations don't "bill themselves" as anything in the real-time monitoring services... those services use an evaluation of each station, its demos and its playlist to determine how they will classify stations. Similarly, the format names we see online on the sites that list ratings are given by the site proprietory.

My point is that KBXX can, quite successfully, target African Americans. KMEL can't, as there is not the population base of Blackes to sustain it. KBXX is mostly Black targeted, while KMEL is mostly Hispanic targeted, but with a coalition of other and Black.



The Box is one of the most successful Urbans there is, relative to population base in the market. The are, in fact, the industry leader that showed how to recover from the initial impact of PPM, fix up the programming, and return to the same dominant position they had in the diary. Few stations have done that as well as KBXX.



The station is #1 in 12+, 18-34, 18-49 and 25-54. Not only is that a huge recovery from the earliest PPM test days in Houston, it is the mark of a station with good usage and acceptance. The fact that it was not even in the top 10 for a while shows that its target knows what it wants and does not listen when it is not good.



Even with KBXX at a high level, there is no guarantee that any new competitor would be able to shave more than a few points off
of them initially... and that would put them way outside the Top 10. That also means losing all the existing revenue and starting over at zere, and losing money for as much as a year as they get back on buys.

And if a new station only goes after the fringe of KBXX, as a CHUrban might, they have to create a coalition big enough to justify the initial revenue loss by giving a big payback in the second year and beyond. In today's economy, that is rather risky and usually only seen where a station is actually at or near unprofitability.

David, how many times are you and I going to go around this merry-go-round with KMEL? Anybody with any knowledge of the SF Bay Area demographics knows whom is KMEL's target audience.

You just pointed out exactly what happens when you have no direct competition and why a competitor could beat easily them. Also you ignored how poorly programmed the Box is, which regardless of its numbers, is proof of what happens when you have no direct competition... PPM or not.

CBS wouldn't go after the fringe of KBXX's audience. It would take them on head on, but would have the ability to challenge Majic. If you are familiar with their methods when it comes to urban programming, they tend to be as wide reaching with its programming choices and dayparting as possible. Any format change is going to be a risk, but if there is a market then so be it. CBS have taken wilder risks with other formats in other cities, but they have banked on it being a slow build up due to the economy.

 

[davideduardo]

Univision has been there and done that with 104.9. I just don't see them going back to Urban.

Party never was Urban. It was Hispanic targeted, and picked up a few other folks in the process.

 

[davideduardo]

David, how many times are you and I going to go around this merry-go-round with KMEL? Anybody with any knowledge of the SF Bay Area demographics knows whom is KMEL's target audience.

My point is that the station is not Urban... it actually does not perform that well against Blacks. It's a CHUrban, and nothing like KMEL

You just pointed out exactly what happens when you have no direct competition and why a competitor could beat easily them. Also you ignored how poorly programmed the Box is, which regardless of its numbers, is proof of what happens when you have no direct competition... PPM or not.

The Box did horribly when the PPM began. Radio One did a lot of looking at that data, and instead of saying "Arbitron is wrong" they did considerable research and made significance changes in programming and the numbers move up dramatically. They do not have listenership by default as it can be see how badly they did when they did not have the programming well focused.

CBS wouldn't go after the fringe of KBXX's audience. It would take them on head on, but would have the ability to challenge Majic.

CBS has only two urbans, both of which were ubans way before when CBS acquired Infinity. They were urban before Infinity, too. Given the low power ratios often obtained by urban stations (WPEG, for example, has a 0.7 power ratio) I think they are very unlikely to go the urban route.

If you are familiar with their methods when it comes to urban programming, they tend to be as wide reaching with its programming choices and dayparting as possible.

They inherited the two full-bore urbans they have. It's not a format they are likely to move into, particularly with the idea that they will be downsizing the radio division. And if we take into account the incessant discussions of CBS radio ending up with Cumulus, then there is even less chance...

 

[purpledevil]

If you delve a little deeper into what has been posted, the station and the reasoning for it to go up against The Box has already been divulged. Go back, re-read, and the pieces start to come together.

 

[davideduardo]

If you delve a little deeper into what has been posted, the station and the reasoning for it to go up against The Box has already been divulged. Go back, re-read, and the pieces start to come together.

Yes, AllAcces, a site financed by the record ducks, is the source of a rumor. How amazing.

 

[willdav713]

Based on your prediction. Only 4 has a slight chance of happening. Not in the way you state it to but 96.5 will change before any of the others do.

KTJM's problem is it's signal. Which is why those formats didn't stick to begin with.

Cox is having much success with the simulcast of KGLK on 106.9 causing The Arrow to slip further and further back in the ratings. Spinning it off would be just plain stupid. The Arrow seems like the likely candidate to change.

KRBE reverting back to their old moniker from the 80's, "Power 104".... No... just, No... Don't see it going Urban. KRBE does well. I don't believe heritage has anything to do with it remaining CHR after all these years.

KMIC just makes no sense at all. Not only does no broadcaster want to do music on AM anymore but an attempt to play on the history would be lost on the target demo, they wouldn't care. No kid is going to say "Cool they're playing Hip Hop on a station my parents/grandparents used to listen to when they were my age!". My experience with 1590... very unlistenable in Kingwood. Poor signal reach. AM quality is just very unattractive to younger listeners. Would you listen? I've listened to stuff on AM recently and even my 11 y/o daughter, who was virtually unaware of AM's existence, asked me why it sounds so bad. She thought something was wrong with the radio.

When I was 11, I listened to Yo 1590 Raps. When I was 13 I listened to y98.5 on AM 1590 and made an aircheck of both of the stations, I lost the 1590Raps tape. Listenable in the Sharpstown and Alief areas. It may not work in the Northern parts of Houston, and the neighborhood cities, but 1590 does cover a sizable portion of Southwest and South Houston. 1590 was more listenable than 98.5 in Southwest Houston. It came in clean. An Urban AC can be done again on AM 1590, a Hip Hop station? maybe not.

As for 104.1, that could be in the cards, Let me point out San Antonio back in the 80's you had Power 93 which was CHR Top 40, and Z 107.5 Spanish CHR, fast forward to 2006 when Z-106.7 CHR Top 40 flipped to Power 106.7 Rhythmic CHR (Hip Hop).


Monikers are like call letters, at times irrelevant.

No listener wants to do music on AM radio anymore? If that was the case KCOH wouldn't exist on 1230 AM.

#6 KCOH might tweak to go head to head with the Box.
Seemed to have forgotten about KCOH in my previous post.

 

[rageradio]

When I was 11, I listened to Yo 1590 Raps. When I was 13 I listened to y98.5 on AM 1590 and made an aircheck of both of the stations, I lost the 1590Raps tape. Listenable in the Sharpstown and Alief areas. It may not work in the Northern parts of Houston, and the neighborhood cities, but 1590 does cover a sizable portion of Southwest and South Houston. 1590 was more listenable than 98.5 in Southwest Houston. It came in clean. An Urban AC can be done again on AM 1590, a Hip Hop station? maybe not.

As for 104.1, that could be in the cards, Let me point out San Antonio back in the 80's you had Power 93 which was CHR Top 40, and Z 107.5 Spanish CHR, fast forward to 2006 when Z-106.7 CHR Top 40 flipped to Power 106.7 Rhythmic CHR (Hip Hop).


Monikers are like call letters, at times irrelevant.

No listener wants to do music on AM radio anymore? If that was the case KCOH wouldn't exist on 1230 AM.

#6 KCOH might tweak to go head to head with the Box.
Seemed to have forgotten about KCOH in my previous post.

That was a different time. Houston radio was in transition from AM to FM so it wasn't that unusual to listen to an AM station. I remember 1590 Raps (Period!). That hit the scene about the time I was in middle school. Early 84. Hip Hop was coming in and there was interest enough for a station to take notice and run with it but not mainstream enough for the FM dial. That simply would not work today. KCOH is a hold over from that era of AM radio and has done well keeping it's listenership as I'm sure those that listened to them back in the day, most likely still do and their kids grew up listening to it so they continue to listen. Going head to head with KBXX. It's not impossible but not likely. Isn't KCOH, Urban A/C?

I actually said no broadcaster wants to do music on AM anymore. If they did they would still be there. Have you seen the numbers the AMs pull in? Some have tried in recent years. The last one I heard and even listened to at times was KGBC Galveston. I liked it mainly because there was an element of nostalgia to it. They were playing 70's and 80's music and it reminded me of listening to that stuff on AM as a kid. It didn't last.

"As for 104.1, that could be in the cards, Let me point out San Antonio back in the 80's you had Power 93 which was CHR Top 40, and Z 107.5 Spanish CHR, fast forward to 2006 when Z-106.7 CHR Top 40 flipped to Power 106.7 Rhythmic CHR (Hip Hop)"

KRBE is doing well. I doubt anyone is contemplating a flip over there.

"Monikers are like call letters, at times irrelevant."

That is true

 

[kilamanjero]

My point is that the station is not Urban... it actually does not perform that well against Blacks. It's a CHUrban, and nothing like KMEL



The Box did horribly when the PPM began. Radio One did a lot of looking at that data, and instead of saying "Arbitron is wrong" they did considerable research and made significance changes in programming and the numbers move up dramatically. They do not have listenership by default as it can be see how badly they did when they did not have the programming well focused.

I still stand by my point, it is easy to be the #1 or #2 station in the market when you have a monopoly on a specific segment of a format. The same can be said about Majic as well. KMEL is basically a full-service urban due to its programming, but its demographic composition make it otherwise going by that rubric. KBXX wins by default, and there is no current evidence you can present to prove otherwise...

CBS has only two urbans, both of which were ubans way before when CBS acquired Infinity. They were urban before Infinity, too. Given the low power ratios often obtained by urban stations (WPEG, for example, has a 0.7 power ratio) I think they are very unlikely to go the urban route.

They inherited the two full-bore urbans they have. It's not a format they are likely to move into, particularly with the idea that they will be downsizing the radio division. And if we take into account the incessant discussions of CBS radio ending up with Cumulus, then there is even less chance...

CBS has 3 urbans (WVEE, WPEG, and WBAV), and only one of them are full-service urban (WVEE). Yes, they inherited them from Infinity, but WZMX and WPGC are urban-leaning rhythmics. The whole point of my recommendation was for the proposed Houston station to be an urban-leaning rhythmic that programs itself as an full-service urban like WZMX and old WPGC. Oh yeah, that has been a rumor for years now about CBS spinning off its radio division to Cumulus by "the record ducks", so unless I see CBS confirm speculation it is just a rumor.

 

[davideduardo]

Oh yeah, that has been a rumor for years now about CBS spinning off its radio division to Cumulus by "the record ducks", so unless I see CBS confirm speculation it is just a rumor.

The Cumulus "rumor" is supported by actual joint ventures between CBS and Cumulus, and by thinly guised statements by none less than Moonves who seems to look at radio as a way of funding an entry into the film and studio business.

Showing that rumors grow on their own, there is now talk in the market that Clear may take KKRW to a Churban variant using the model of KMEL targeting a coalition without specifically zeroing in on just the African American audience.

 

[wprt949]

93.7 has been classic rock for 20+years do you know how much backlash clear channel will get they will be forced to flip it back to classic rock

 

[someperson]

93.7 has been classic rock for 20+years do you know how much backlash clear channel will get they will be forced to flip it back to classic rock

Heritage doesn't really mean anything. Remember Rock 101?

The ratings for KKRW are so low that it seems likely that Clear Channel will need to do something, so it wouldn't be too surprising if they chose to throw in the towel and try something completely different like Urban. The Eagle is basically killing them in the ratings anyway.

 

[ksradiogeek]

What is KLOL now? Spanish Top 40?

 

[ksradiogeek]

For what it's worth, I emailed Steve Fixx, programming director of KKRW, and asked him about a potential switch to Urban with a link to this thread. This was his response:

He's just saving face to avoid the inevitable.

 

[ksradiogeek]

KISS? Seriously? ANOTHER Top 40 station?

 

[Radio Fool]

Re: New Station

These rumors are for right now just rumors. But what's interesting is that Radio One bought KBXX and KMJQ for almost. .5 Billion from CC. So was waiting until the final payment was in?

 

[Unregistered]

I still stand by my point, it is easy to be the #1 or #2 station in the market when you have a monopoly on a specific segment of a format. The same can be said about Majic as well. KMEL is basically a full-service urban due to its programming, but its demographic composition make it otherwise going by that rubric. KBXX wins by default, and there is no current evidence you can present to prove otherwise...



CBS has 3 urbans (WVEE, WPEG, and WBAV), and only one of them are full-service urban (WVEE). Yes, they inherited them from Infinity, but WZMX and WPGC are urban-leaning rhythmics. The whole point of my recommendation was for the proposed Houston station to be an urban-leaning rhythmic that programs itself as an full-service urban like WZMX and old WPGC. Oh yeah, that has been a rumor for years now about CBS spinning off its radio division to Cumulus by "the record ducks", so unless I see CBS confirm speculation it is just a rumor.

Don't forget KTWV in Los Angeles. Technically CBS now has 4 urbans as KTWV transitioned from smooth ac to urban ac last month.

 

[stan]

He's just saving face to avoid the inevitable.

Fixx is right.