New WILM PD and "morning drive personality"

[MattParker]

I called and talked with Bruce Elliot off air, after his show yesterday and did suggest potting down the sounder (since no one apparently caught on to the volume during the entire show), which they apparently did today. I also mentioned that until they get more actual spots why play so many PSA's each half hour as they take up a sizable part of the half hour ( I heard the Smokey THE Bear PSA at least 4 or 5 times during the time I was tuned in). Bruce explained that WDOV has different spots that WILM and so WILM fills PSA's while WDOV is airing local spots. So apparently WDOV sells better than WILM, that's a sad commentary. One thing Bruce could do to make it a better experience for the WILM listeners, rather than air all those PSA's while WDOV has a real spot break, why not do another story that you have timed out to fit that time space. I remember a CBS radio news show years ago doing something like that. Some stations would break away for a spot break, while they were gone, for those who were still there the anchor would read another story timed to end a few seconds before the others would rejoin the broadcast, you'd hear a click sound then he'd go on to the next story. Granted it's more work and effort for Bruce, but it would make listening to WILM during his show much more enjoyable and might hold some of his audience longer.

I'm sure Bruce appreciates all the helpful suggestions, especially those that would mean more work and making producing the show more complicated.

I'm surprised that the CC Delaware sales department hasn't sold that morning block as a "statewide network" show for bigger statewide clients (like banks, WaWa's, DART, News Journal, etc, that would be heard on both WILM/WDOV), with local avails for smaller local customers like a Dover Dunkin Donut's or an Manhatten Bagel shop on Concord Pike, etc, to air on their respective local station.

For the benefit of anyone who has never done sales, "selling" means somebody has to buy. The local sales force is undoubtedly pitching or presenting what management has told them to pitch or present. If big statewide clients aren't buying a multi-station package, it's almost certainly NOT because their sales rep didn't think to offer it.

And those brief little blurbs before or after the traffic report are very salable. The big reason stations do traffic reports is they make money from them. Clear Channel operates its own traffic service in many markets, so their profit potential is even greater and so is the incentive to do more frequent reports.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

I only suggested, to Bruce, potting down the sounder for traffic/weather. I asked why so many PSA's? The other things mentioned here weren't brought up to Bruce, but are suggestions for discussion here. WDEL's morning news block has a very professional major market sound, so if WILM hopes to seriously compete against WDEL during that time slot, their program also needs to sound like a major market show. Bruce has a good voice, so do Allan and Phil. But running 8 PSA's every half hour does take away from the flow of the show. Real spots are bad enough, but WILM only seems to have a hand full of spots, so it doesn't take long for them to get old when repeated ad nausium throughout each hour segment, so having Bruce do an extra story for the WILM listeners, during the WDOV extra spots, or if you will the WDOV local avails is more work for Bruce, but would make the Wilmington version sound much better than hearing the Smokey the Bear and the little kid who can't breathe PSA's over and over.

Also I was listening online too for awhile and they do PSA's for WILM there too, but not in the same order as the radio for some reason. The online even did PSA's on WILM's website during the traffic/weather segments. I at one point had both the radio and internet on to hear the difference and noticed those differences prior to logging off the internet and going with WILM radio instead. Also, the network feeds from Fox come through online loud and strong, the WILM/WDOV feed comes through with a lot less volume, so you'd have to crank up the volume during the local stuff and turn it down during FOX news or make good spots from Fox.

I find it interesting that WDOV apparently has more spots than WILM. Probably two different groups of sales folks, one group in Dover and one group in Wilmington. Interestingly both stations air the same programming day time, other than WILM airs Watson and WDOV airs Beck. Watson's show does seem to pull in some spots, but the other shows are the same on both stations, so why does WILM lose out to WDOV? It would seem a lack of effort on the part of the Wilmington sales team. WDEL had Limbaugh and Hannity prior to WILM getting them. WDEL had far more spots during those shows than WILM. Same shows, same market even. So, it just seems like maybe those Northern Delaware sales folks are focusing more on the music oriented FM's WDSD and WRTX (TOM - FM) and ignoring the news/talk WILM and sports talk WWTX. If they're young sales folks, they just may not see any value for the AM stations and don't even bother to try to sell them.

 

[MattParker]

Mike, with all due respect, you seem to assume Clear Channel isn't trying to sell spots (or "lack of effort"). Maybe clients aren't buying.

Of course, there is a chicken and egg factor here. Sales reps are on commission. Like anybody else, they will work to maximize their income/reward. If AM talk is a harder sell (meaning it has a lower close rate, it takes more time to make the sale and the spot rates are lower, so the commission is less), then any sales rep is going to go for the faster, easier, bigger ticket-more commission sale. If you have some way to fix that, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested.

I'd agree that running all those PSAs just calls attention to the station's desperate business situation. It's sort of like some of those older shopping centers or shopping districts where a lot of the store fronts are boarded up. Both send the message that people aren't buying and that discourages anybody else from buying.

 

[OldNumber7]

Rerunning PSAs over and over again is a very easy way to burn out listeners. They ought to 1) get a whole pile of PSAs and station promos to put in the rotation and/or 2) Wilmington/Dover can't be the only Clear Channel market with this dilemma, so why can't CC produce nationally some :60 second features every day or week for its stations to use as filler (e.g. TV news, Hollywood news, consumer news, health news -- you get the idea). For that matter, they could even be produced within the local cluster, using the FM jocks to record and voice them.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Good point, OldNumber 7. Fox news runs those 60 sec Fox news flashbacks, etc, during the spot break on their hourly newscasts, probably because they don't have a paid spot to air. So what you suggest is already being done by the Fox Radio network, but could also be done by the local CC cluster as Old Number 7 suggested.

Matt, I sited WDEL and WILM both had aired Rush/Hannity, both in the same market, Wilmington. WDEL had plenty of spots and WILM has few to none. It's a logical assumption that WILM's salesforce may be dropping the ball. So maybe the solution is to assign some sales folks to ONLY sell WILM/WWTX. Have others sell the FM properties. Then if they don't sell WILM/WWTX, they don't eat. My guess is, those hungry sales people will all of a sudden discover how wonderful AM radio is and move "mountains" to convince clients to buy air time on those 2 AM stations. It's a matter of motivation. As long as they can skate by selling the FM stations, why bother selling the AM? So make it worth their while to sell the AM and then watch the American entrepreneurial spirit kick in.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be contrary, but I can't believe Rush can sell on WDEL, and those same advertisers wouldn't buy the same show on WILM??

 

[MattParker]

A dedicated sales force is one option. This may get in the way of selling multi-station packages and you may easily end up with multiple Clear Channel reps calling on a client and even competing with each other.
Another is giving FM advertisers free spots on AM. Delmarva does this. It may encourage clients to consider AM or it may devalue AM in clients' eyes.
Another would be higher commission rates or bonuses for AM sales (not something management would easily embrace).

The basic problem is AM Talk is a hard sell.

Many clients do not want to be associated with "controversial" programming. This includes national advertisers who buy time in network newscasts while stipulating that their spots are not to be run on stations carrying specific talk shows.

AM Talk's audience demographics are not desirable to many clients. Clients don't buy shows or stations. They buy the attention of a predicted number of people of certain types. Rightly or wrongly, many clients believe AM Talk listeners are not their best potential customers. (This same issue comes up in talking about Oldies, Standards and other formats in decline for lack of advertiser, not necessarily audience, support.)

For national advertisers, Wilmington is a hard sell. The market consistently under-bills because many advertisers get good audience penetration in Wilmington from Philly stations.

AM Talk (actually AM Conservative Talk, since progressive talk is not represented in the market) gets about a five per cent average quarter hour share. Typically, 95 per cent of the audience is listening to other formats (and two out of three listeners are tuned in to Philly). AM Talk gets a lot of attention here, but for sales reps, clients and even most of the audience it's almost a niche format. Why invest time and money on AM Talk when listeners are elsewhere? Beyond that, the specific station that is the topic here gets around a two per cent average quarter hour share. Add in the fact that Wilmington is not (yet) a PPM market and advertisers have learned not to trust diary data.

Don't under estimate the power of inertia, and of personal relationships between reps and clients. Clients buy Delmarva, in part, because they have bought Delmarva and have a relationship with a Delmarva rep. They also have a history of not buying WILM. WILM was pitched as a stand-alone buy under previous ownership and did not sell well. Sales reps didn't stay long. They were motivated to find a more salable product to offer. Local ad sales is a personal service and turn-over doesn't help sales.

Another factor, many clients make it a practice to buy the number one station in a given format or target demo. So that station gets a disproportionate share of ad revenue.

In all fairness, you seem to have made some judgements about sales people without walking in their shoes, or even asking them how their shoes fit. Your basic assumption seems to be sales reps are lazy and if AM Talk isn't selling, they must not be trying. Selling (anything) is not easy.

A lot of listeners did not follow Rush from one station to another. Why assume clients would?

 

[Porky Hooton]

Matt, Mike, Old Number 7, BigA, and DX, you all make some very good points. You could give Holland, Walter, Randy, Lee, Gary, and some of the other consultants who we have worked with, a real run for their money! Seriously, some good observations, especially on the sales and programming aspects that you have presented. One of the other challenges with syndicated talk, is that it is very fragmented; epscecially in Wilmington. Being 20 minutes from the Philadelphia Airport, all the Philly stations deliver city grade signals over Delaware. The Big Talker splits Rush and Hannity with WILM. It would be interesting to see the actual 25-54 breakdown between the two. I assume that WILM wins that battle, but I can't say for sure. If you were to pick up New Castle County and stick it in the middle of nowhere, 300 miles from the nearest city, selling Rush and Sean might also be a little easier. Plus, Wilmington is provincial, and likes originality, and local stuff that is unique to Delaware. WDEL/WSTW/WXTU and the other Delmarva stations in Milford and Sallisbury, have always paid the highest commissions around. I have been told that some of their stations pay up to 20% commission on collections ! This might be the case with WDEL. So you are right about WILM looking at commission rates. Also as suggested, many stations do throw in the weaker station as part of the buy for a:60 commercial on the stronger FM station. However, I would always tell our GM's to make sure that they insisted that the reps get something for any commercial sold on the AM or internet. So, say they sell the commercial for $75 on the FM, make sure they get $25 on the AM combo buy. Having said that, I have also had many a seller sell the FM spot for $100 and tell the client that they were throwing in the AM for nothing. But for practice, it is always best to put a $ value next to each commercial that you sell, and do your value added in another creative way. Tickets to sporting events, restaurant trade, trips, and other merchandise is always a good way to do your added value. Do good, be well and happy.

 

[jhguthlac]

The WILM PSA situation is why I listen to Rush on other stations. In the car, I listen to 1210. In the office, its 1210, WABC or WGMD, depending on my mood.

Those PSA's are beyond annoying.