"Newest HD Radio chip unveiled"

[badjef]

Came across this in FMQB:

"At the NAB Show in Las Vegas on Monday, the newest HD Radio chip was unveiled. Created in conjunction between iBiquity, the NAB, Intel and Emmis Interactive, the new chips are cheaper to make and smaller than previous HD chips. The new HD Radio chips were introduced in a presentation yesterday, but the next step is for phone makers to include and activate them in their devices."

Now, my assumption is there is no AM-HD included in this chip, just as the Insignia boombox or armband doesn't include the AM band.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[spunker88]

There is nowhere to put an AM antenna in a phone, it would take up to much space and cell phones give off way too much noise in the AM band if you've ever put one near an AM antenna you'll now. FM chips do a decent job using the headphones as an antenna.

I'd like to see iBiquity try to convince cell companies to allow HD Radio on their phones. They would rather have you using an expensive data plan to stream them.

 

[tomservo]

Imagine if the iHeartRadio app could interface with the HD/FM chip and seamlessly transition between a local analog or digital subchannel and the corresponding stream online. We might actually get dropout-free radio for a change (cuz neither HD nor streaming on my phones are dropout free.)

On the other hand, imagine the nightmare for engineers trying to sync analog, digital and a stream, lol.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

There is nowhere to put an AM antenna in a phone, it would take up to much space and cell phones give off way too much noise in the AM band if you've ever put one near an AM antenna you'll now. FM chips do a decent job using the headphones as an antenna.

I'd like to see iBiquity try to convince cell companies to allow HD Radio on their phones. They would rather have you using an expensive data plan to stream them.

My comments:

(1) If the price point isn't right on the radio chip, it is doomed.
(2) If the power consumption isn't exceptionally low, it is doomed.
(3) An AM antenna for the new generation of IC's is as simple as a PC board trace around the perimeter of the board. So there is room.
(4) AM interference is the result of poor PC board layout and poor decoupling techniques. Decent engineering could easily solve both. Unfortunately there is a stigma at most companies about engineers doing PC board layout - resulting in poor layouts done by dedicated PC layout departments who know nothing about interference issues.
(5) NOBODY is going to plug headphones into a phone, or even a handsfree, just for FM reception. You need to shrink down the FM antenna to fit inside the phone using fractal techniques or something.
(6) Nobody really cares about iTunes tagging but Apple - who is looking to make a buck anywhere they can. Most people who are listening to the radio are listening to songs they already know.

 

[badjef]

My question is if they have done any real world testing? I don't think so. iBiquity must have some well positioned lobbyists, and the elected useful idiots in Congress have no clue of radio or TV. It has been proven over and over. We are either societal ignorant or insane, by definition.

Yea, go ahead, put HD capability in the cell phone, include AM, too. The phone techs will go nuts in the stores explaining why their phone doesn't work.

Personally, I think the most useful option was a little FM transmitter that was in my LG Fusic.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[Savage]

Know what's going to guarantee the success of FM and HD in smartphones?

"Artist Experience !!!"

 

[Play Freebird]

(5) NOBODY is going to plug headphones into a phone, or even a handsfree, just for FM reception. You need to shrink down the FM antenna to fit inside the phone using fractal techniques or something.

This is indeed a problem.

I dumped my old Palm Treo for a Motorola Droid X a year ago, and one feature that attracted me to this model was the FM radio. However, the need to plug in headphones discourages casual use. The audio quality of the stereo FM receiver is actually very good (and it displays RDS PS and radiotext) but sensitivity is lacking -- I find it blends to mono outside the predicted 80 dBu contour of most stations and is unusable at 65 to 60 dBu, where a portable radio would still provide good mono reception. Considering potential RFI from the internal cell phone electronics, Bluetooth, GPS receiver, etc. I wouldn't expect HD to perform any better.

 

[nd2023]

Radio Shack used to sell (and maybe still does) the Gigaware HD Radio for iPhone. It originally cost $80 and was knocked down to $20 when it wasn't selling. The sensitivity sucks, it's only good (in analog) to the 60 dBu whereas my Insignia portable is good to the 40 dBu. HD reception is obviously much worse.

The Insignia portable HD radio is the best portable HD radio. It's $50, and the only buyers are radio geeks like us. The average person won't spend $50 on a radio.

 

[badjef]

Know what's going to guarantee the success of FM and HD in smartphones?

"Artist Experience !!!"

I'm still not sure what that is...

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[badjef]

(5) NOBODY is going to plug headphones into a phone, or even a handsfree, just for FM reception. You need to shrink down the FM antenna to fit inside the phone using fractal techniques or something.

This is indeed a problem.

I dumped my old Palm Treo for a Motorola Droid X a year ago, and one feature that attracted me to this model was the FM radio. However, the need to plug in headphones discourages casual use. The audio quality of the stereo FM receiver is actually very good (and it displays RDS PS and radiotext) but sensitivity is lacking -- I find it blends to mono outside the predicted 80 dBu contour of most stations and is unusable at 65 to 60 dBu, where a portable radio would still provide good mono reception. Considering potential RFI from the internal cell phone electronics, Bluetooth, GPS receiver, etc. I wouldn't expect HD to perform any better.

Now, I do have the add-on for the iPhone/iPad and it also requires a headset, or something plugged into the "headphone" jack in order to work. It won't use the internal speaker.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[w9wi]

I bought a Droid Bionic back in February. Love it as a phone, but indeed the FM chip doesn't work very well. Many stations that deliver principal-city-contour (70dBu+) signals here are noisy. (when they do come in the audio is pretty good and the RDS decoder decently sensitive)

Actually, the FM chip didn't work at all when I first got the phone -- the app wasn't installed. Managed to dig it up online somewhere.

It is hard for me to believe any FM antenna built into the phone itself is going to work any better, or even anywhere near as well.

My company phone is a HTC Evo Shift. FM works a LOT better -- really, it's a pretty decent DX radio.

 

[KB1OKL]

Know what's going to guarantee the success of FM and HD in smartphones?

"Artist Experience !!!"

I'm still not sure what that is...

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

I think it's they put a picture of the album cover on the screen for a couple of seconds early in the song, exciting isn't it?

 

[tomservo]

There's supposedly a dormant FM chip in my Samsung Galaxy S Showcase but there's no app or provision in the software to use it.

My old Sony Walkman phone does double duty as analog FM in my car when I don't have the HD radio with me. It has the same tendency to blend to mono far too easy but is otherwise a decent average receiver for such a tiny package. It also does RDS with AF, but no radio text.

Like most phone it requires the headset to be connected via a proprietary connector that has gone weak over the years, so it doesn't stay connected easily. It's also the charging connector, but luckily I only charge that phone once every few months. It sure beats the once-twice daily charging routine of the Galaxy S!

 

[scanman1]

If this new chip is placed into an inexpensive pocket radio that can be powered by a couple of AA's, it would get me interested enough to give HD radio another try.

 

[SirRoxalot]

I don't get all the objections to plugging in earbuds. Even the kids who'll put up with really crappy audio prefer to listen on earbuds instead of a crappy little cell phone speaker. Besides, they can listen to whatever they want without adult input and/or supervision.

Look at the people listening to iPods. They ALL have something plugged into them. All putting FM into a phone does is extend radio listening onto an appliance that most people already carry with them. The ones without earbuds aren't listening to music on their phones anyway. The really cool ones will be listening to stereo on their Bluetooth headsets - at least until the phone battery dies.

 

[diymedia]

There's supposedly a dormant FM chip in my Samsung Galaxy S Showcase but there's no app or provision in the software to use it.

Dependent on yr firmware version, this may work:

http://mmbtools.crc.ca/content/view/52/77/

 

[spunker88]

I bought a Droid Bionic back in February. Love it as a phone, but indeed the FM chip doesn't work very well. Many stations that deliver principal-city-contour (70dBu+) signals here are noisy. (when they do come in the audio is pretty good and the RDS decoder decently sensitive)

Actually, the FM chip didn't work at all when I first got the phone -- the app wasn't installed. Managed to dig it up online somewhere.

It is hard for me to believe any FM antenna built into the phone itself is going to work any better, or even anywhere near as well.

My company phone is a HTC Evo Shift. FM works a LOT better -- really, it's a pretty decent DX radio.

I have the Droid 3 with the same FM chip. As far as I understand, you can blame Verizon for the lack of an FM app, they would rather have you using up your data. The reason the hardware is still there and working is because international versions of the phone ship with a working FM app.

Motorola uses the TI WiLink chip for FM. The performance is okay, it will overload with a strong signal and give off random images on the FM band. The Silicon Labs Si4703 DSP in my Sansa Clip Zip is much better and pretty DX friendly when using the Rockbox firmware since it allows you to read dBu values from the radio and display 2 line RDS. It has very good sensitivity and selectivity, similar to the Tecsun PL-390 which also uses a Silicon Labs DSP.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

(5) NOBODY is going to plug headphones into a phone, or even a handsfree, just for FM reception. You need to shrink down the FM antenna to fit inside the phone using fractal techniques or something.

This is indeed a problem.

I dumped my old Palm Treo for a Motorola Droid X a year ago, and one feature that attracted me to this model was the FM radio. However, the need to plug in headphones discourages casual use. The audio quality of the stereo FM receiver is actually very good (and it displays RDS PS and radiotext) but sensitivity is lacking -- I find it blends to mono outside the predicted 80 dBu contour of most stations and is unusable at 65 to 60 dBu, where a portable radio would still provide good mono reception. Considering potential RFI from the internal cell phone electronics, Bluetooth, GPS receiver, etc. I wouldn't expect HD to perform any better.

I just carry a Sony SRF-59 if I want radio. I paid $18, and it is the real deal as far as ultralight DX is concerned. I used it in the DFW area and rim shots like KLAK 97.5 punch right in without a problem, stereo separation is really good, AM is amazing - from Houston WBAP and KLIF are receivable, and in Dallas KLBJ comes right in, as well as KOKC. $18 well spend. HD? who cares. But if you start with a decent IC, like Sony's 113_ series - and put an HD decoder after it, I think you would have a shot. Of course, the FM antenna is in the headphone. And the AM antenna is a good old reliable ferrite bar - which definitely would not fit in a cell phone.

 

[tomservo]

There's supposedly a dormant FM chip in my Samsung Galaxy S Showcase but there's no app or provision in the software to use it.

Dependent on yr firmware version, this may work:

http://mmbtools.crc.ca/content/view/52/77/

Didn't work. I may try rooting it with Super One Click but last time I tried to root this phone neither this nor Z4root worked. There's something about it being an oddball model that, ever since the Gingerbread upgrade, it has been un-rootable.

 

[Play Freebird]

On the subject of putting HD Radio chips in mobile phones:

http://www.radioink.com/Article.asp?id=2443586&spid=24698

Check out Carpenter's comments at about 6:12 into the audio interview, they reflect what most of us have been saying for years.

If our "industry leaders" had any sense of vision back in the '80s, they should have steered the FCC and Congress towards retention of several 700 MHz UHF channels for digital radio, rather than relinquishing everything above Channel 51 and expecting IBOC to work. The shorter wavelength in this UHF band would have made self-contained cell phone antennas much more practical, not to mention all the other advantages.