News/Talk on FM possibly?

[CleveFan]

This is only an idea. Not actual report.

I was thinking that, now Cleveland has sports talk on FM, could news/talk follow suit on FM as well?

My CBS could launch a talk format on FM to compliment The Fan, but with the other three FMs not likely to switch, could it be possible for CBS to add more stations to make a move?

If they want to add, they should go the Salem stations. None of the three stations are huge ratings winners with their niche formats (Plus, The Fish has seen better days when Sue Wilson was PD), and those frequencies can be put to better use. Here's what I propose:

92.3 - Sports Talk
95.5 - News/Talk (all or mainly local; maybe a simulcast from AM or separate)
98.5 - Classic Rock (or some hybrid Classic/Alternative Rock format)
102.1 - Soft Rock
104.1 - Adult CHR
1220 - News/Talk (conservative syndication; maybe a simulcast from FM or separate)
1420 - News/Talk (progressive)

92.3 - Classic Rock (or some hybrid Classic/Alternative Rock format)
95.5 - Sports Talk
98.5 - News/Talk (all or mainly local; maybe a simulcast from AM or separate)
102.1 - Soft Rock
104.1 - Adult CHR
1220 - News/Talk (conservative syndication; maybe a simulcast from FM or separate)
1420 - News/Talk (progressive)

92.3 - Dance/ Rhythmic CHR (the return of Jammin' 92.3 possibly)
95.5 - Sports Talk
98.5 - Classic Rock
102.1 - Soft Rock
104.1 - Adult CHR (Q104 would have to lean more towards Alternative to flank Jammin' and WNCX)
1220 - News/Talk (conservative)
1420 - News/Talk (progressive)

92.3 - Alternative Rock (the return of Radio 92.3 perhaps?)
95.5 - Sports Talk
98.5 - Classic Rock
102.1 - Soft Rock
104.1 - Adult CHR
1220 - News/Talk (conservative)
1420 - News/Talk (progressive)

92.3 - Contemporary Christian Music (maybe The Fish or either Air 1 or K-LOVE)
95.5 - Sports Talk
98.5 - Classic Rock (or some hybrid Classic/Alternative Rock format)
102.1 - Soft Rock
104.1 - Adult CHR
1220 - News/Talk (conservative)
1420 - News/Talk (progressive)

92.3 - Rhythmic CHR
95.5 - Alternative Rock
98.5 - Classic Rock
102.1 - Soft Rock
104.1 - Adult CHR
1220 - Sports Talk (in case the FM version ends up failing, though I doubt it will)
1420 - News/Talk (conservative, but with stronger shows)

95.5 - Sports Talk
98.5 - Classic Rock (or some hybrid Classic/Alternative Rock format)
102.1 - Soft Rock
104.1 - Adult CHR
1220 - News/Talk (conservative)
1420 - News/Talk (progressive)

(92.3 can be sold or spun off since it's coverage is not as strong as 95.5, 98.5, 102.1 and 104.1)

This is all just suggestions if such a move was to happen. I don't think would invest much in CCM and not at all in Christian Talk. Having a news/talk station, especially on FM and mainly or all local, can boost CBS and the CBSCleveland.com website too.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Firebird]

There's no way Salem would put liberal talk on 1420. If anything, CC finally puts WTAM on FM. Don't forget that WNIR/100.1 in nearby Kent/Akron has been doing local talk on FM since 1973.

It's doubtful that anyone would start a new local FM talker in Cleveland in the near future.

 

[vjm]

The closest thing we have to FM Talk is WMMS with their man-cave format. They might get something to go between Rover and Alan Cox (be it Jim Rome or whoever), but other than that--unless CC flips one of their FMs (The Lake?), or ELB is willing to sell WNWV for a song--I don't see anything on the horizon.

 

[Capulet]

For the short haul.....next few years....CBS will leave the formats they have now in place.

Down the road ( 5 -10- years from now ) I can easily foresee more talk programming replacing music formats. That is directly attributable to the generations that grew up using radio ( people born say 1955 to 1975 ) go there less and less for music as they age. Bank on this. Young people born since 1985 see fm radio as something from their parents generation. They are way into new.....computers, cell phones, and all the hi tech toys all over Best Buy. I'd be curious to know how many radios Best Buy sells in a year compared to iPods, PC,s etc.

Anyway, there will be more and more talk formats on radio, both fm and am. The music formats might be moved to the am band too.

 

[VODood]

WNIR is a non-factor in the Cleveland market.

I agree with Capulet regarding music formats and radio. How many born in 1995, now 16, go to the radio for music or content? I bet less than 20% and I think that's conservative. In ten years they'll be 26 and will have left radio in the rear view.

The govt wants the AM band. Didn't Europe shut it's AM band down?

Even for TV and movies the net is the future.

I can see in less than 20 years no more towers/transmitters. All 'net casting to cars, etc. Less overhead.... and no FCC licenses? FCC has no govern over the internet (not yet). Will be interesting. I can also see "terrestrial" radio being a paid service at some point.

 

[Tim]

Might not take 20 years.

 

[Rusty Muck]

WNIR is a non-factor in the Cleveland market.

I agree with Capulet regarding music formats and radio. How many born in 1995, now 16, go to the radio for music or content? I bet less than 20% and I think that's conservative. In ten years they'll be 26 and will have left radio in the rear view.

The govt wants the AM band. Didn't Europe shut it's AM band down?

Even for TV and movies the net is the future.

I can see in less than 20 years no more towers/transmitters. All 'net casting to cars, etc. Less overhead.... and no FCC licenses? FCC has no govern over the internet (not yet). Will be interesting. I can also see "terrestrial" radio being a paid service at some point.

In Canada, the CBC has almost totally left the AM dial - only Windsor, Vancouver and two or three other AMs remain. The licenses either were handed back, or turned over to private broadcasters aiming for a power or facility upgrade (two of which actually went dark in 2010, presumably for good, but could resurface as a traffic/transit info loop). Other smaller markets have private broadcasters also abandoning long-standing AM signals for FM sticks.

It wouldn't be a shock for me to see Canada leave the AM band behind for good in 10 years.

As per the AM band in the US, I wonder about that. To me, it's a complicated situation. Unlike Canada, there isn't any room in most markets for AM stations to migrate outright to the FM dial (not format-wise, but lock-stock-and-barrel). Plus the ownership laws would have to be adjusted to account for the loss of the AM band, no? And while there have been a few AM stations that have gone dark - some never to return - others have managed to be revived, moreso small suburban independent stations that place a heavy emphasis on local sales.

While Cleveland is an older market, and could support more AM station beyond WTAM or WKNR (quite frankly, Salem just wastes the ratings/revenue potential of both 1220 and 1420- my humble opinion) it IS a two-station AM market.

If you're setting up a new format on the AM dial, be prepared to move it to the FM dial as soon as you can. Theoretically, if CBS launched a talk format in Cleveland on an acquired AM station (say, they buy the Salem cluster ostensibly for 95.5, as I outline in a following post), it would HAVE to be simulcast on the FM dial. If not immediately, within a span of several years.

But VODood is dead-on right. Few, if ANY people born after 1995 have any clue what the radio is, let alone the AM dial. They have almost completely been reared on the iPod, YouTube and internet streaming - and are in the process of embracing Pandora and internet radio receivers wholeheartedly. It's a consequence of the times.

 

[zrl]

If they want to add, they should go the Salem stations. None of the three stations are huge ratings winners with their niche formats (Plus, The Fish has seen better days when Sue Wilson was PD), and those frequencies can be put to better use. Here's what I propose:

92.3 - Sports Talk
95.5 - News/Talk (all or mainly local; maybe a simulcast from AM or separate)
98.5 - Classic Rock (or some hybrid Classic/Alternative Rock format)
102.1 - Soft Rock
104.1 - Adult CHR
1220 - News/Talk (conservative syndication; maybe a simulcast from FM or separate)
1420 - News/Talk (progressive)

First off correct me if I'm wrong, but you can only have FOUR stations on any one band in a market the size of Cleveland. (4 FM's & 3 AM's OR 3 FM's & 4 FM's) They would HAVE TO spin off 92.3 in order to acquire the Salem cluster, which would give them a stronger signal for the Fan on 95.5-- but not an additional signal. (At least not on FM)

Of course they might be able to change a city of license on one of the five to...let's say Hudson and get it declared an Akron market station-- much like Clear Channel did with WAKS. But this would be new ground for CBS, nothing they've done before that I can think of.

In my opinion, if they have decided to hang on to the Cleveland cluster-- and in the long-term I DON"T THINK THEY HAVE; they are more likely to pressure Raycom to sell WOIO-19 & WUAB-43 (43 would become the CW affiliate) than add additional radio signals.

Also just because Salem is at the bottom of the ratings doesn't mean they are unprofitable (they could be, but it's not an automatic) because their bread & butter is a brokered station. The preachers PAY to be on 1220, so Salem doesn't care if no one is listening. The financial guys pay to be on 1420 on the weekend too. The stations last I checked are available, but for a price no one would pay in todays market. (Not even CBS/ Viacom corp)

 

[Rusty Muck]

If they want to add, they should go the Salem stations. None of the three stations are huge ratings winners with their niche formats (Plus, The Fish has seen better days when Sue Wilson was PD), and those frequencies can be put to better use. Here's what I propose:

92.3 - Sports Talk
95.5 - News/Talk (all or mainly local; maybe a simulcast from AM or separate)
98.5 - Classic Rock (or some hybrid Classic/Alternative Rock format)
102.1 - Soft Rock
104.1 - Adult CHR
1220 - News/Talk (conservative syndication; maybe a simulcast from FM or separate)
1420 - News/Talk (progressive)

First off correct me if I'm wrong, but you can only have FOUR stations on any one band in a market the size of Cleveland. (4 FM's & 3 AM's OR 3 FM's & 4 FM's) They would HAVE TO spin off 92.3 in order to acquire the Salem cluster, which would give them a stronger signal for the Fan on 95.5-- but not an additional signal. (At least not on FM)

Of course they might be able to change a city of license on one of the five to...let's say Hudson and get it declared an Akron market station-- much like Clear Channel did with WAKS. But this would be new ground for CBS, nothing they've done before that I can think of.

In my opinion, if they have decided to hang on to the Cleveland cluster-- and in the long-term I DON"T THINK THEY HAVE; they are more likely to pressure Raycom to sell WOIO-19 & WUAB-43 (43 would become the CW affiliate) than add additional radio signals.

Also just because Salem is at the bottom of the ratings doesn't mean they are unprofitable (they could be, but it's not an automatic) because their bread & butter is a brokered station. The preachers PAY to be on 1220, so Salem doesn't care if no one is listening. The financial guys pay to be on 1420 on the weekend too. The stations last I checked are available, but for a price no one would pay in todays market. (Not even CBS/ Viacom corp)

The telling sign is how much Salem is investing into The Fish, which is supposedly their top station. It's been average of late - not bad, but not phenomenal in the least. It's still doing decently in the ratings, but how much are they performing in a revenue standpoint? Hmm.

One possible way - and the ONLY one I can think of - that CBS buys the Salem cluster is if they are clearly intent on 95.5 as a replacement for 92.3.

Think about it: even with interference posed occasionally from grandfathered 100kW WKQI/Detroit, and minor interference to the west of Lorain County from WLKR/95.3 Norwalk, the 95.5 facility is clearly a superior full-market signal in comparison to the 92.3 facility. Plus you don't have to move WNCX, let that format play out for 2-3 years, and then flip to something else like a news/talk. (The erasing of "radio 92.3" pretty much assures that the rock format as a whole won't be for long at CBS Cleveland, period.)

Again, the ONLY way CBS buys that whole cluster is for the purposes of buying 95.5. 1220 and 1420 are merely add-ons that could either simulcast such an FM news/talker or run a cheap turnkey satellite format (ESPN Radio 24/7?). Or, CBS then turns around, and sells 92.3, 1220 and/or 1420 off to someone like Townsquare (the ONLY other group that's buying radio stations of any sort right now).

Point is, the wild card would be if CBS quietly reneged on selling off the remainder of their non-Top 10 markets after all. I actually think that they HAVE.

It was no secret that CBS was also looking at unloading their Sacramento CA stations - including sports/talk KTHK/1140. Recently, KTHK not only re-signed Don Geronimo - formerly of the Washington, DC based "Don & Mike" - to a long-term contract, but promoted him to program director AND morning show host. (It was implied that CBS and Don mutually agreed to go to KHTK - a former "D&M" affiliate - so as to finish off the remainder of his long-term CBS deal, but now it appears that Don is once again committed to CBS... and CBS is committed to that market once again.)

Not to mention they've made SERIOUS investments in FM sports talk in both Baltimore and Pittsburgh, where they were prepared to unload all (excluding KDKA-AM for obvious historical and sentimental purposes - and they said as such). You don't launch a sports/talker, and try to reclaim PBP rights to the Pirates, if you're planning on dumping the station off in a year or two, IMO. Same deal when CBS makes the major push for PBP rights on WKRK. They aren't in it to abandon it all in a few years.

And who knows? Maybe they want to get WOIO/WUAB from Raycom, too.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

In Canada, the CBC has almost totally left the AM dial - only Windsor, Vancouver and two or three other AMs remain.

And in Windsor, CBE/1550 will breathe its last breath at the end of this month. They gave it a slight reprieve while they worked out adjacent channel issues with CBEW/97.5 and Detroit market stations.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

And on topic here, CC is still trying to get that 99.1 translator with 250w/high antenna off the WMJI stick...presumably its latest FM translator simulcast, with WTAM.

Lance Venta is tracking another one in Akron, with EMF's Air 1 translator at 102.5 hiking from 10 to 77 watts, listing CC's WKDD/98.1 as primary (presumably WKDD-HD2, which carries WHLO/640). CC and EMF have done this in other markets - CC gets to use the EMF translators in one market (like Minneapolis), and EMF gets to use CC's HD2 channels in another market (like Detroit, to feed their commercial band translators that can't be fed by satellite).

 

[Tim]

A TV buddy of mine has told me that local broadcast TV has more to worry about long-term than radio.

Main reason? He says the explosion of TV viewing on cable channels has caused a fragmentation of local TV ad dollars...so, local TV channels are earning far less money than even 10 or 15 years ago.

Also, he's told me...the major broadcast networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox) are kicking around the idea of simply becoming cable networks eventually....with no local affilliates per se, because they feel there's no need: in every town in the US, you'd just watch their shows on cable.

Maybe there's a TV expert here would could confirm this networks/cable thing. Because, if it's true, along with much smaller local TV ad revenues...I wouldn't guess owning local TV stations would be nearly as attractive a business as it used to be.

 

[Rusty Muck]

And on topic here, CC is still trying to get that 99.1 translator with 250w/high antenna off the WMJI stick...presumably its latest FM translator simulcast, with WTAM.

Lance Venta is tracking another one in Akron, with EMF's Air 1 translator at 102.5 hiking from 10 to 77 watts, listing CC's WKDD/98.1 as primary (presumably WKDD-HD2, which carries WHLO/640). CC and EMF have done this in other markets - CC gets to use the EMF translators in one market (like Minneapolis), and EMF gets to use CC's HD2 channels in another market (like Detroit, to feed their commercial band translators that can't be fed by satellite).

For now, using a translator to relay WTAM's audio on FM is a soft way to move the format onto the FM dial (the same thing is being done with KEX/Portland, OR and WIOD/Miami, FL). Plus at this point, it's not worth it yet to blow up an existing FM format to simulcast a 50,000 watt signal.

Unless The Fan either makes a dent in WTAM's ratings/cume or steals away either the Indians and/or Browns... WTAM might have to bite the bullet then and move to a full-market FM. Remember that when previous ownership fumbled away the Indians and Browns rights in the early 90s, WWWE became a ratings non-factor. (Heck, they stuck Triv in the evening slot because they had nothing to lose, and somehow won the lotto with that.)

And even if WTAM lost both the Indians and Browns to WKRK, that still falls in the "might" category. Remember that, for now, WTAM still has the only radio news department in Cleveland, and has the service element advantage in mornings and afternoons, so they could afford to remain on 1100 and the 99.1 translator even beyond 2013. Plus Glenn, Rush and Triv still do quite well.

But if CBS decided to start a "Big Talker" FM talk format on either 92.3 or 98.5 (provided a frequency swap for The Fan) - or even an acquired 95.5 and 1220 from Salem - all bets are off with WTAM then. IMO.

 

[flashback]

WNIR is a non-factor in the Cleveland market.

I agree with Capulet regarding music formats and radio. How many born in 1995, now 16, go to the radio for music or content? I bet less than 20% and I think that's conservative. In ten years they'll be 26 and will have left radio in the rear view.

The govt wants the AM band. Didn't Europe shut it's AM band down?

Even for TV and movies the net is the future.

I can see in less than 20 years no more towers/transmitters. All 'net casting to cars, etc. Less overhead.... and no FCC licenses? FCC has no govern over the internet (not yet). Will be interesting. I can also see "terrestrial" radio being a paid service at some point.

so by your senario everyone would be forced to have an internet connection or have no access to radio.am i right?

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

But if CBS decided to start a "Big Talker" FM talk format on either 92.3 or 98.5 (provided a frequency swap for The Fan) - or even an acquired 95.5 and 1220 from Salem - all bets are off with WTAM then. IMO.

In the current market conditions, I don't see that happening for a number of reasons.

* Remember, CBS has been trying to sell out of Cleveland and other mid-smaller markets for years now. It's only when they took the radio sales market temperature and saw that such a sale may not happen for years, that they doubled-down and staffed up 92.3. And even that could eventually be countered by staffing reductions elsewhere in the cluster (I'm looking at you, WNCX).

* As others say, I don't see CBS buying or swapping anything else.

* As such, if they do blow up WNCX on 98.5 and move "The Fan" there, they MIGHT put a talk format on 92.3 just to cause WTAM a little indigestion (but only a little).

* But...CBS shows no signs (yet) of mounting a big "Big Talker on FM" initiative. The format is used by them on underperforming AMs in markets like Charlotte and Washington DC (and Philadelphia, the model for the format, which has limited local programming aside from the now-syndicated Michael Smerconish). But their spoken word initiative on FM is the "Fan" sports talkers, and we now have one here.

So...don't see it happening. Yet.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Oh, losing both the Browns and Indians would certainly hurt WTAM, but would not cripple it a la "3WE"'s past. The station as a whole is MUCH stronger than 3WE was at that time...a good part due to Triv's rise.

 

[Tim]

Somethings to consider....with 923TheFan (eventually 985TheFan?????) and WMMS hammering away with spoken-word formats aimed primarily at men, and the natural aging process of traditional talk formats....WTAM has enough to worry about even without losing any teams' play-by-play.

Partisan, politically-oriented talk shows have lost a fair amount of their audience (per an Arbitron report a few years ago). It seems every day more and more of the public begins to realize, for most Americans, little significant changes in their lives regardless of which political party is in office. So, political talkers more and more are being seen for pretty much what they are: showmen/women. That hurts talk formats to an extent.

News, traffic, and weather are available 24/7 on-line and on your phone. So, that content nolonger belongs exclusively to radio/TV.

My point: the public has more music and information sources than ever before. Nobody owns it all any more....and there's more competition for the public's attention now than ever before.

Creative, relevant content (local, if possible) is, to my way of thinking, the wave of future success in media...regardless of how the public gets that information/entertainment: radio, TV, internet, phones, and so forth.

 

[Rusty Muck]

But if CBS decided to start a "Big Talker" FM talk format on either 92.3 or 98.5 (provided a frequency swap for The Fan) - or even an acquired 95.5 and 1220 from Salem - all bets are off with WTAM then. IMO.

In the current market conditions, I don't see that happening for a number of reasons.

* Remember, CBS has been trying to sell out of Cleveland and other mid-smaller markets for years now. It's only when they took the radio sales market temperature and saw that such a sale may not happen for years, that they doubled-down and staffed up 92.3. And even that could eventually be countered by staffing reductions elsewhere in the cluster (I'm looking at you, WNCX).

* As others say, I don't see CBS buying or swapping anything else.

* As such, if they do blow up WNCX on 98.5 and move "The Fan" there, they MIGHT put a talk format on 92.3 just to cause WTAM a little indigestion (but only a little).

* But...CBS shows no signs (yet) of mounting a big "Big Talker on FM" initiative. The format is used by them on underperforming AMs in markets like Charlotte and Washington DC (and Philadelphia, the model for the format, which has limited local programming aside from the now-syndicated Michael Smerconish). But their spoken word initiative on FM is the "Fan" sports talkers, and we now have one here.

So...don't see it happening. Yet.

To be fair, however, it depends on the viability of music formats overall. Even if when The Fan moves to 98.5, that's not a guarantee that WNCX will 'play out the format' on 92.3, by any means.

Historically, CBS has never been known for having talk powerhouses, even with WPHT axing Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity earlier this year for more local talk (and moving Micheal Smerconish to a half-live, half-taped afternoon-drive slot). Oddly enough, WPHT also scrapped the "Big Talker" name with that infusion of local programming in favor of their original name, "Talk Radio 1210 WPHT."

CBS' bread-and-butter in the spoken word radio universe IS sports-talk and all-news, the latter of which is not viable in this market. (As per the Washington "Big Talker," that's more of what WERE/1300 was in the late 90s, a brokered programming ATM for the CBS DC cluster.)

One other thought re: CBS on the block in Cleveland... with them, Salem and ELB (supposedly) all for sale, that's nine full-market signals up for grabs. Eleven signals* if GKB were to decide to throw in the towel. And so far, there's no takers for ANY of them. The only group that could be seen as any type of an investor into radio stations today is Townsquare (the former GAP Broadcasting). If they decided to enter Cleveland, it could be a bonanza for them - heck, maybe Townsquare buys BOTH the CBS and Salem clusters... how about THAT?

I give CBS a good, healthy 5-10 years in the market. Especially with investing in The Fan, that skyrockets the price of the cluster beyond what anyone was even thinking about anyway. They better pray the economy improves sometime this decade. Otherwise, they are in here for keeps.

*Yes, I know WWGK/1540 counts as 1/2 of an actual signal... :

 

[Tim]

Well, yeah, of course.

Going sportstalk in Cleveland is CBS taking advantage of the current market conditions in order to upgrade their cluster...to make it more attractive for an eventual sale.

From what I've heard, that's always been the plan.