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NFL Blackouts--Sunday 09/25

O

oldiesfan

Guest
It was my understanding that NFL home markets
can air one game each on CBS and Fox on those
Sunday afternoons when the local team plays at
home, with the home game airing if sold out.

However...

The program schedules on 09/25 for WCBS-TV
New York and KYW-TV Philadelphia show both
stations airing not only their respective home
team 1:00 ET games (Jets for NYC, the Giants
play Sunday night) but also the sole CBS 4:00 ET
game--New England at Pittsburgh.

Both Fox affils are airing one game, Dallas at
San Francisco at 4:00 ET.

So what's the deal?

In Phoenix we've always gotten doubly screwed
on Sundays. First, just having the Cardinals
is enough shame, but we also get cheated out
of a third afternoon game whenever that bunch
masquerading as an NFL team is at home (and
blacked out) as we only get one game on each
network.

Are the NYC and PHL TV listings in error or...?
 
> It was my understanding that NFL home markets
> can air one game each on CBS and Fox on those
> Sunday afternoons when the local team plays at
> home, with the home game airing if sold out.
>
> However...
>
> The program schedules on 09/25 for WCBS-TV
> New York and KYW-TV Philadelphia show both
> stations airing not only their respective home
> team 1:00 ET games (Jets for NYC, the Giants
> play Sunday night) but also the sole CBS 4:00 ET
> game--New England at Pittsburgh.
>
> Both Fox affils are airing one game, Dallas at
> San Francisco at 4:00 ET.
>
> So what's the deal?
>

The rule was changed a few years ago. Now if the home team sells out and is on the doubleheader network, they can air both games.

JPK
 
> The rule was changed a few years ago. Now if the home team
> sells out and is on the doubleheader network, they can air
> both games.

Home team sells out? I don't understand the concept. Such things don't happen in Phoenix.

You have to understand that those of us in the Phoenix TV market have little clue about the idea of "home team sells out" since it happens on only extremely rare occasions (I think the last one was 3 years ago when Green Bay was here) and then only once a year if it does happen.

So how could we have known about a rules change that doesn't affect us? :-D
 
> The program schedules on 09/25 for WCBS-TV
> New York and KYW-TV Philadelphia show both
> stations airing not only their respective home
> team 1:00 ET games (Jets for NYC, the Giants
> play Sunday night) but also the sole CBS 4:00 ET
> game--New England at Pittsburgh.

FYI: The Giants are going to be on WPIX at 8:30 PM, with the season premiere of Charmed moving to 7:30. My guess is that its going to be a straight rebroadcast of the ESPN feed.<P ID="signature">______________
WCBS = We're Crazy Buffoons and Schmucks
<a href=http://chuck.spotteddogs.org/tv/>Spotted Dog TV Talk - for all your non-news TV Talk</a></P>
 
> > The rule was changed a few years ago. Now if the home team
>
> > sells out and is on the doubleheader network, they can air
>
> > both games.
>
> Home team sells out? I don't understand the concept. Such
> things don't happen in Phoenix.
>
> You have to understand that those of us in the Phoenix TV
> market have little clue about the idea of "home team sells
> out" since it happens on only extremely rare occasions (I
> think the last one was 3 years ago when Green Bay was here)
> and then only once a year if it does happen.
>
> So how could we have known about a rules change that doesn't
> affect us? :-D
>
What about the Seahawks? <P ID="signature">______________
"Always on the move." Obi-Wan Kenobi in Revenge Of the Sith</P>
 
> >
> What about the Seahawks?
>

The Seahawks actually sell out now that they're a half-decent team. :)
 
> FYI: The Giants are going to be on WPIX at 8:30 PM, with the
> season premiere of Charmed moving to 7:30. My guess is that
> its going to be a straight rebroadcast of the ESPN feed.

Exactly right. And if possible, they'll affix a logo of "WB 11" over ESPN's logo where applicable.<P ID="signature">______________


New York City Radio and TV</P>
 
Keith:

I believe all of the Sunday home games in Pheonix begin at 1:05 or 2:05 local, depending on whether Daylight Time nationally is still underway or has ended, respectively.

When there is a non-sold-out home game in Phoenix, I wonder if both CBS and Fox televise only a 10:05 or 11:05 A.M. game (again, depending on whether Daylight time nationally is underway or has ended), with no "late" game.
 
I Think It Was Once Worse (Was: Re: NFL Blackouts--Sunday 09/25)

It could be worse for those in Phoenix.

I thought I once read something in a microfilmed copy of the New York Times dated around 1964 or 1965 stating that on weeks when the New York Giants were playing at home, CBS (which had all the NFL TV rights in the pre-merger era) flagship WCBS-2 not only had to black-out all Giants' home games, but the station was also prevented from broadcasting any NFL games on Sundays when the Giants were playing at home.

I also believe that the Phoenix "blackout zone" is the largest in the NFL and actually encompasses almost all of Arizona. Although the NFL's definition of a blackout zone is a 75-mile radius from the team's home TV market, Tucson is within the 75-mile radius (I believe just barely), and the Phoenix TV market takes up not just Metropolitan Phoenix, but central and northern Arizona as well, thanks to cable carriage and translator stations. I believe Yuma is the only TV market in the state to be outside of the Cardinals' "blackout zone".
 
Re: I Think It Was Once Worse (Was: Re: NFL Blackouts--Sunday 09/25)

> I also believe that the Phoenix "blackout zone"
> is the largest in the NFL and actually encompasses
> almost all of Arizona...I believe Yuma is the only
> TV market in the state to be outside of the Cardinals'
> "blackout zone".

True, from what I've noted in the past (TV listings)
and see now on the NFL coverage maps site referenced
on one of the Radio-Info boards recently.

The folks in the Yuma/El Centro market must be
simply ecstatic about getting all those Cardinals
home games! (Now turning sarcasm mode off ;-)

Tucson has it slightly better--while it gets blacked
out on home Sundays along with Phoenix, it does get a
third game since it is a peripheral market.
 
> When there is a non-sold-out home game in Phoenix,
> I wonder if both CBS and Fox televise only...
> (an "early" game)...with no "late" game.

No, there is always one game in each time slot.

How CBS and Fox decide who gets which, I don't know.
 
Phoenix NFL blackout zone

> It could be worse for those in Phoenix.
>
> I also believe that the Phoenix "blackout zone" is the
> largest in the NFL and actually encompasses almost all of
> Arizona. Although the NFL's definition of a blackout zone is
> a 75-mile radius from the team's home TV market, Tucson is
> within the 75-mile radius (I believe just barely), and the
> Phoenix TV market takes up not just Metropolitan Phoenix,
> but central and northern Arizona as well, thanks to cable
> carriage and translator stations. I believe Yuma is the only
> TV market in the state to be outside of the Cardinals'
> "blackout zone".

Tucson is about 110 miles from downtown Phoenix and 95 miles from Sun Devil Stadium in Tempe. I think the rule is that if any part of an adjacent TV market is within 75 miles of the stadium, the entire market is blacked out. Since the Tucson market extends north into southern Pinal County which is just inside that zone, it qualifies as a blacked-out market.

That means that all of Arizona other than Yuma and LaPaz Counties in the SW part of the state (Yuma/El Centro market), the Bullhead City & Hoover Dam/Lake Mead areas (Las Vegas market), the Navajo Nation (Albuquerque market) and the areas north of the Grand Canyon (Salt Lake City market) are blacked out. The remainder of the state is either in the Phoenix or Tucson TV market.

There is another rumor that Bill Bidwill wanted the entire state to be blacked out from seeing Cards games regardless of distance, but I doubt that he's so concerned about the fans that he would relieve us of the pain of watching that wretched franchise. :-D
 
NFL Blackout in Connecticut? Ever?

I'm trying to remember when (and if) we've ever been blacked out from a home Giants, Jets or Patriots game here in the Hartford/New Haven, CT market? Yes, all three usually sell out these days. How was the attendance in those years when the Patriots actually lost games? (I wish they could get back to that!) Presently, the Hartford/New Haven market covers all of Connecticut except for Fairfield County. However, New Haven isn't too far away. Likewise, eastern Windham and New London Counties (e.g. Putnam, Norwich and New London) are within 75 air miles of Gillette Stadium.

Come to think of it, isn't the entire state of RI within that exclusion zone? I know that Bristol County, MA is. Heading south on either US Route 1 or I-95 towards Providence, RI, the first town after Foxborough is Mansfield, MA. That's also the Norfolk/Bristol County line (and the start of the Providence, RI market).

P.S. Yes, our doubleheader today (9/25) was the Jaguars vs Jets at 1 PM (ET) and the Patriots vs Steelers at 4:15 PM (ET). Thanks to both ABC (Monday Night Football) and Hurricane Katrina-related rescheduling, we've been stuck with the Atlanta Falcons here for all three of their games (aginst Philadelphia on ABC, at Seattle on FOX and at Buffalo on FOX).
 
> The program schedules on 09/25 for WCBS-TV
> New York and KYW-TV Philadelphia show both
> stations airing not only their respective home
> team 1:00 ET games (Jets for NYC, the Giants
> play Sunday night) but also the sole CBS 4:00 ET
> game--New England at Pittsburgh.
>
> Are the NYC and PHL TV listings in error or...?
>
I live in South Jersey right outside of Philly and I get KYW. It was CBS' doubleheader so, Philly & NYC got the CBS doubleheader and a FOX game at 4pm EDT. I assume your home game was on FOX so, you lose the other CBS game. They changed the double header home game rule a couple of years ago.

I'm originally from Boston so at 4:15pm, I hade to fire up the DirecTv to see the Pats and switched back to KYW-DT on Comcast at halftime when the DirecTv feed became blacked out.
 
Hi everyone:

> > The program schedules on 09/25 for WCBS-TV
> > New York and KYW-TV Philadelphia show both
> > stations airing not only their respective home
> > team 1:00 ET games (Jets for NYC, the Giants
> > play Sunday night) but also the sole CBS 4:00 ET
> > game--New England at Pittsburgh.

Since the Broncos play on Monday Night, KCNC 4 apparently pretty much tagged along with KYW by picking up the Oakland-Philly game at 11:00 AM and then the New England-Pittsburgh game after that. KDVR 31 got the Green Bay-Tampa Bay game on FOX.

> FYI: The Giants are going to be on WPIX at 8:30 PM, with the
> season premiere of Charmed moving to 7:30. My guess is that
> its going to be a straight rebroadcast of the ESPN feed.

This is always the case whenever an NFL team plays on Sunday Night and (usually) some local station has rights to preseaason games. Here in Denver, that honor (strangely enough) goes to KCNC 4 however since KCNC 4 is owned & operated by CBS, the ESPN telecasts of Denver Bronco games has gone to KUSA 9, the local NBC affiliate, as of late.

That said...It will be very interesting to see who winds up with the local OTA Monday Night Bronco game rights next year once the new contract kicks in since NBC will have the Sunday Night games. My guess is that KMGH 7, the local ABC affiliate, will wind up with the Monday Night Bronco games (assuming there *are* any as the Broncos only appear once on MNF this year - And that is tomorrow night against the Chiefs).

Just my $.02 worth :)

Cheers for now :) <P ID="signature">______________
patspodcast03a.jpg

http://patspodcast.blogspot.com/
Radio? Uhh.....What's THAT?? :)</P>
 
> Hi everyone:
>
> This is always the case whenever an NFL team plays on Sunday
> Night and (usually) some local station has rights to
> preseaason games. Here in Denver, that honor (strangely
> enough) goes to KCNC 4 however since KCNC 4 is owned &
> operated by CBS, the ESPN telecasts of Denver Bronco games
> has gone to KUSA 9, the local NBC affiliate, as of late.
>
> That said...It will be very interesting to see who winds up
> with the local OTA Monday Night Bronco game rights next year
> once the new contract kicks in since NBC will have the
> Sunday Night games. My guess is that KMGH 7, the local ABC
> affiliate, will wind up with the Monday Night Bronco games
> (assuming there *are* any as the Broncos only appear once on
> MNF this year - And that is tomorrow night against the
> Chiefs).
>

The Sunday night contracts have little or nothing to do with network affiliation. In Boston the Patriots' Sunday night games air on WCVB, the ABC affiliate.
 
Re: NFL Blackout in Connecticut? Ever?

Although I'm up the road in Boston, I once did read something about NFL blackouts.

The Hartford/New Britain/New Haven/Waterbury market was never within the TV blackout zone of any NFL team.

In 1973, the New York Giants had to temporarily move to the Yale Bowl in Nrew Haven since their previous home, Yankee Stadium, was being rebuilt and their future home, Giants Stadium, was not yet completed. I believe (but not 100% sure) that the Giants played five home games in 1973 and all seven (back then, the NFL had a 14-week regular-season) home games in 1974 at the Yale Bowl.

Under the NFL rules at the time the move was announced, games in New Haven would not have been televised in the Hartford/New Haven market.

With the exception of a couple of Giants' home games against AFC teams in 1970, 1971, and 1972 that were televised on NBC-affiliate WHNB-30 (now NBC-owned WVIT), I suspect that from 1958 through 1972, viewers in northeast Westchester County and in southwestern Connecticut were able to watch Giants' home games if they had an outdoor antenna capable of getting WFSB-3 in Hartford.

For the games in New Haven, the league made an exception to allow the games to be shown locally in Hartford/New Haven if they were sold-out in advance. A few weeks later, under pressure, the league (and the government, IIRC) expanded this policy to all teams, creating the "modern" blackout policy.

Thus, fans in Hartford/New Haven (and in New York) saw the Giants' home games that were played in New Haven in 1973 and 1974.

As regards Providence, it is within the "blackout zone" for the New England Patriots. However, there have been no blackouts of Patriots' home games since 1993, and it is unlikely that there will be any in the near and intermediate future (read: the next five to eight years).
 
> > Hi everyone:

[snip...]

> > That said...It will be very interesting to see who winds
> up
> > with the local OTA Monday Night Bronco game rights next
> year
> > once the new contract kicks in since NBC will have the
> > Sunday Night games. My guess is that KMGH 7, the local
> ABC
> > affiliate, will wind up with the Monday Night Bronco games
>
> > (assuming there *are* any as the Broncos only appear once
> on
> > MNF this year - And that is tomorrow night against the
> > Chiefs).
> >
>
> The Sunday night contracts have little or nothing to do with
> network affiliation. In Boston the Patriots' Sunday night
> games air on WCVB, the ABC affiliate.

That may be true but I don't *conceivably* see anyone else but KMGH 7 picking up the Sunday Night OTA rights (especially since they've had them before in the past back when the Sunday Night games in the first part of the season were on TNT). KWGN 2 dumped the Rockies and they pay a lot more. They're on KTVD 20.

Speaking of KTVD 20, I doubt they'd be interested because UPN programs Monday Nights now. Heck, FOX Sports had move the Rockies games on Monday Night back to FSN because of it.

I don't see Indie KWHD 53 or so-called "Indie" KPXC 59 picking them up either for obvious reasons. LeSea owns KWHD and KPXC is mired in the PAX quagmire.

Just my $.02 worth :)

Cheers for now :)<P ID="signature">______________
patspodcast03a.jpg

http://patspodcast.blogspot.com/
Radio? Uhh.....What's THAT?? :)</P>
 
Re: NFL blackout zones

Here in Los Angeles, the Chargers home games would be blacked out here, as well as San Diego (of course), because L.A. is considered a secondary market to the Chargers; many of the L.A. television stations' signal penetration does get into at least northern San Diego county, well within the 75-mile radius of Qualcomm Stadium. The only other neighboring markets are Palm Springs and Yuma-El Centro, and I believe those areas would get the Chargers home games, sellouts or not; the Palm Springs market is within the 75-mile radius of Qualcomm, but since its CBS affiliate is a LPTV, I don't think they would be affected.

Also, Milwaukee (being 100 miles from Green Bay) is also a secondary market to the Packers, and of course, the Packers always sellout Lambeau Field. I also believe that Madison is within the blackout zone of the Packers as well, since the northwestern portions of the Madison lie within the outskirts of the Green Bay market. Rockford is considered a secondary market to the Bears, but like the Packers, the Bears always sellout and the Packers are always on whenever the Bears don't play at the same time.

Sacramento doesn't get the 49ers nor Raiders if neither one doesn't sellout, since the market is within the 75-miles radius of both San Francisco and Oakland.
 
Re: NFL blackout zones

> Rockford is considered a secondary market to the Bears, but like the Packers, the Bears always sellout and the Packers are always on whenever the Bears don't play at the same time.

Back in the mid-late '70s, after the rules change but before Bear games regularly sold out, there were a lot of bars in the Chicago area that had 50-foot towers with UHF antennas pointed toward Rockford to get Bear games since WIFR/23 always carried them. No part of the Rockford/Freeport market is within 75 miles of Soldier Field.

I believe South Bend's WSBT/22 carried all Bear games at the time as well. South-side, south-suburban, and NW Indiana bars probably had their UHF antennas pointed toward them.

I think the last Bear game to be blacked out in Chicago was in 1980.
 
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