Nickleback

[JSM]

Could someone please enlighten me as to the radio attraction to these guys? There are maybe one, or two of their tunes which are listenable (to me of course), but....I turn on 97.3, they are there - 98.5 - they are there...93.5, 96.9, 101.3; keep going

Are they that great? Do they pay stations to play them; what is it??? They are pop, rock, classic rock....

I fully expect to hear them on 107.7 or 94.5 soon

I am just trying to understand this phenomenon

thx

 

[RockMustLive]

I could never understand it. I've probably heard 100 amazing bands from Canada, and yet this is the crap the radio decides to play. Typical rock radio - lowest common denominator!

 

[Seltzer]

I would think they are too current for 98.5...that would surprise me.

They are very popular, especially with women. Check out the audience at their next show and you'll see what I mean.

They've had a ton of hit songs already.

They're going to be around for a long time.

 

[RockofHBG]

You're right! 98.5 The Peak should not be playing Nickelback! They shouldn't be playing much of anything newer than 1985. "Classic" is a term you must be careful with. With a car, it must be at least 25 years old to be considered a classic. The Peak is suffering from a common radio malady I call "middle drift". When a station signs on, it is generally very targeted musically. After a couple of years on the air, there is a feeling of being "stale". Now, that can happen, but is not a good reason to broaden your music You made need to freshen the list bit, freshen the imaging or do some marketing, but not broaden the playlist. I call the syndrome "middle drift" because it is a natural tendency to want the station to be as mass appeal as possible. When this happens, current-based stations add too many or the wrong titles to their gold library and gold-based stations tend to get younger, like the Peak is doing with Nickelback and Kid Rock. Sometimes you can get away with it, but it can muddy a station's image and make it vulnerable to attack. Think McDonalds.They are about burgers. Even though pizza is very popular, it is not an expectation from McDonalds. Nickelback is not an expectation from The Peak.

 

[RockMustLive]

I've done some research and found they appeal to neanderthals ages 12-30 and the chicks who dig them. Come on, every song sounds the same. I guess there's a certain comfort in knowing that they won't ever stray from their formula of grunting anger, followed by an "awww ain't he sweet" slow song.

 

[Seltzer]

Middle drift. That's a great term I've never heard any of my radio insiders ever use before. I've heard 90s songs on the Peak before but they are also drifting into the 2000s. Daughtry, Green Day, Nickelback, Train, and Maroon 5 have all made appearances on the station this past week. They are clearly becoming unfocused.

 

[RockofHBG]

There's also "title envy" and "artist envy". Ross Murdock at the Peak seemingly has artist envy. This happens when there is a very hot, very popular artist or artists that are being played at seemingly every format but yours. After lots of consideration, you delude yourself into thinking that because this artist is so hot, your audience is familiar and accepting of him/her and it "won't hurt" to play them and it may even make you more accessible. I'm sure he's been chomping at the bit to play pop rock artists Train, Nickelback, Maroon 5, etc for sometime particularly now that WARM can play them. Good Artists, but NOT classic. Mainstream AC has had artist envy for Lady gaga for awhile. She's not hottest thing going, but most of her stuff is still too edgy for soft AC. Finally a song as tame as "Alehandro" has come along for the format. A few have integrated "Just Dance" and "Paperazzi" as recurrents. Just wait....in five years she'll be a mainstream AC core just like Madonna , because "time heals all tempo". The country format had artist envy with Bon Jovi and finally got to play "Who Says You Can't Go Home".

Then there's "title envy". Once in awhile a really mass-appeal song comes along and every format tries to play it. This is about current-driven formats. Two examples: country playing Kid Rock's "All The Summer Long". That song and artist had no relevance to the country lifestyle but was one of the catchiest sing-alongs of 2008. Also, Michael Buble's "Haven't Net You yet" being played at CHR. These are both examples of "middle drift". To be successful, you don't want to be too narrow, but you can't be all things to all people. There's a reason there are formats.

 

[johnnyu]

I have never heard Nickelback. Who are they? A small refund?

 

[RockofHBG]

Just did a little research on WYCR The Peak. Somebody's smoking something! Here's a sampling of their music: Louie Louie from the Kingsmen, Pretty Woman from Roy Orbison, Do You Believe In Magic Lovin' Spoonful, Classical Gas from Mason Williams, Rock me Gently Andy Kim, plus all the 70s and 80s classic stuff you'd expect and recent stuff from Daughtry, Lifehouse, Hoobastank, Los Lonely Boys, Everclear, Foo Fighters, and Oasis all on the same station ! Music from 1963-2007!!! This is not classic hits and it is not the same station that signed on in 2004. Do the Bare Girls know how endangered this station is? Is the consultant asleep at the wheel? Is the PD having a brain hemorrhage or a mid-life crisis.

 

[Seltzer]

Thanks for confirming that I'm not on crack...... It always bugged me when I'd hear some "pop" stuff like Brandy & Dancing In The Moonlight on this station. But 1963-2007? And Classical Gas?????? WOW

Funny, but if they keep this up, they're going to hand over a great portion of their audience to WSOX, who already could be the beneficiary of the small audience Mix garnered in the 3 markets. The station you may recall that has made the biggest boneheaded move of 2010 so far when they dumped Maddog.

But back to the Peak. I don't know who consults them but they must not be paying attention.

 

[RockofHBG]

Historically, WYCR has always been a programming train wreck aside from that shining moment known as the Willie B. era. If they hadn't been so consistently screwed up over time, they'd still be around today as a heritage CHR , much like WLAN and WKRZ. I thought Radio Hanover had finally learned their lesson with The Peak, but apparently not. Apparently, they can't stand prosperity.

 

[grandoleopry]

Sorry Rock....NO MONEY IN CHR!
WYCR far outbilling even the best of its CHR days.
And ROCK....Thats all that really matters!

 

[RayThomas]

An interesting discussion. Is there a right way and a wrong way to "evolve" a format consisting of entirely library material? Are there such formats that simply CAN'T be evolved, as RockofHBG implies?

Consider "Oldies"...in its original form, a "library" format that played in most markets around the country un-changed for 25 years! We all know the formula: a core library from the Beatles-Stones-Beach Boys-Motown-Phil Spector era of 1963-69. Sprinkle in a few 55-62 early rockers like Elvis, Chuck Berry and Buddy Holly and Doo-Wop groups like the Platters and the Drifters. Some stations played a few carefully-selected artists from the early 70's like the Jackson 5 and Jim Croce. But that's it. This format performed fabulously year after year, delivering great numbers and sellable demos. Why mess with it?

Then...as the late 90's approached...alarm bells began going off in corporate offices nation-wide...
just like the anguished cry from the bridge of the Titanic on that fateful night...."DEMOGRAPHIC ICEBERG DEAD AHEAD"...The Boomers were aging out of 25-54!

A good friend of mine programmed such a station in the 90's. When he saw the demo problem coming, he began slowly, carefully and cautiously evolving the station. Out went Buddy Holly and the Platters and in came 70's mainstays like Elton John, Bob Seger and the Bee Gees.

What happened? The numbers went DOWN! the Boomer P-1's didn't care for the 70's stuff, and while they still listened, they didn't listen as long or as often. So my friend beat a hasty retreat and went back to the original formula. The ratings promply went back up.

But it wasn't to be. The "Demo Iceberg" remained and the company eventually blew up the station in favor of a younger-targeted format. My friend, thankfully, landed on his feet.

So are programmers like Chris Tyler at The River and Ross Murdock at The Peak actually doing the right thing by slowly and carefully adding newer rock? After all, to a 30-year-old, bands like Third Eye Blind and Green Day, popular in the '90's, are "classic." Is there a right answer?

 

[Seltzer]

To my ear, comparing the River to the Peak are comparing apples to oranges.

The River is not positioned as a "Classic Hits" station. It never has been. "Rock & Roll without the hard edge" was the original brand, if I remember correctly. They've always played some current artists, at least have over the past 10 years.

The Peak, on the other hand, is "York's Classic Hits" or something like that. When I hear, and I believe most people hear, "Classic" in branding, I better be hearing 70s 80s and some early 90s music at this point. But that's it.

 

[RockofHBG]

Is there a right way and a wrong way to "evolve" a format consisting of entirely library material? Are there such formats that simply CAN'T be evolved, as RockofHBG implies?

I think most formats can be evolved, but it has to be done slowly, carefully and most importantly done on an on-going basis. What happens with most formats they are left untouched as long as they are working. Then, BOOM, the bottom drops out and it's too late and a format change must occur. If you don't evolve a format, it will age to oblivion. That's what happened to the oldies format. Many times when you evolve a format too quickly, much of the older demo will squeal. Done on-going, adding a year, subtracting a year, it's much more transparent.Yes, with pure "oldies" there is still plenty of appeal....to demos the advertising world doesn't care about. Yes, you can argue about the viability of the 55 + demo, but as long as ad agencies don't recognize it, it doesn't matter what programmers think. You'll note oldies did disappear, then return under the name "classic hits" ( a different kind of classic hits than the one that is "classic rock lite"). It's basically oldies as it might have naturally evolved and it's doing great. Think WCBS-FM New York and WOGL Philly .

 

[RockofHBG]

Just to be clear....when you evolve a format, it means when you add a new era of music, you get rid of an old era, not keep expanding until you burst. And....if you're gonna play classic hits...play classic hits or call it something else. Don't call yourself "Outback" and then serve Big Macs.

 

[bossjock 56]

If a station can expand without causing the P-1's to jump ship, it might be worth a try if done CAREFULLY. The OLDIES format of the 90's didn't do well the first time this was tried. In the last couple of years with stations like CBS-FM and WOGL.....it worked. But you are correct...the branding had to be changed.

 

[RockofHBG]

Yes, but when you add...you must also subtract. CBS-FM and OGL have gotten rid of alot of the really old stuff when the added late 70s and 80s

 

[RockofHBG]

Sorry Rock....NO MONEY IN CHR!
WYCR far outbilling even the best of its CHR days.

I'm sure that they are outbilling it's CHR days because they totally sucked as a CHR. And, yes, CHRs can be very successful when done right. WAEB Allentown and WKRZ Wilks-Barre are two fine examples of long-time CHRs. I'm not talking about the CHRs that are low-budget and put on class A FMs to appeal just to teens. I'm talking about carefully researched, heritage Class B stations with big morning shows. The only dangers to a heritage station can be a low-ended class A or failure to play the hits!!! The former was not the case with YCR. Since 1995, they had the CHR field in York to themselves and still screwed it up. Their biggest sin was the music...not being disciplined as seems to be the case now. I remember in the final days of 98 YCR looking at their music in MMR and they were all over the place. I think over the course of the week I monitored they had played over 800 different titles. Hope history doesn't repeat itself. It looks like it might be starting to.

 

[Seltzer]

What's kind of ironic? The population of the country has aged and will continue to do so. Now would be the right time to launch a 60s based oldies station again. And perhaps a softer station (ala older A/C tunes) that would appeal to an older female. Even a Classic Country station on FM. The population base is there to support it.

But none of these will happen because of the agencies wanting younger demos. And the younger demos are the ones who may abandon radio all together. What station owner has the balls to say...To hell with the agencies, we're going to make a living on local advertising alone. WE know our market; it's getting older and WE KNOW they have a helluva alot of money to spend!!