In a deal that will be announced by Cumulus later today, Nielsen will start measuring 50 Cumulus midsized to smaller markets in Q3 2009. Clear Channel will initially use Nielsen in 17 of their markets. I am also aware of 2 other companies that intend to move from Arbitron to Nielsen in these markets as well. With any luck, this can be the start of something bigger from a Company Ad Agencies respect and admire.
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Nielsen re-enters Radio Ratings
- Thread starter Kabrich
- Start date
And Nielsen will be using diaries for measurement...which I'm sure is very much to the liking of Cumulus and Clear Channel, since it seems they are being hurt by Arbitron's transition from diaries to PPM.
Let's see, diaries, and one book per year? Sounds like a backward step to me. The good things that they're doing is selecting prospective diarists based on address instead of land line ownership, and they're expanding the sample.
So my question is...what happens to the Arbitron samples in these markets? Will Arbitron keep doing them? Will other group owners tout their numbers over the new Nielson system or will they be forced to switch to compete? It will be interesting to see how this shakes out over the next 12-18 months.
1
1900radio
Guest
Arbitron may not see it worth their while if 2 of their biggest clients in those 17 markets go away. Their work load would still be the same.
Stickers & once a year measurement in 2009? We might as well go back to rotary phones and dot-matrix printers – because this is a step backwards not a step forward….
Advertisers want CURRENT information – they want to evaluate choices based off what is going on now – More importantly - Radio talks about competing in a digital world – a world where audience measurement is immediate - so the way to do this by expecting people to sit at home peel a sticker off one sheet and put it on another sheet, and then go to the mailbox and mail that information back? Where is the nearest mailbox to your house? I can’t even make a guess – with email, on-line bill payment, magazines on-line – except for birthday cards/gifts and jury duty summons – if mail stopped being delivered to me tomorrow – I wouldn’t even notice – correction – I be happy – no more junk mail.
If you thought a 3 month average that looked back to the past was bad - once a year measurement is a joke. Hope stations don't make any major programming changes after the survey comes out – if they do they will be hearing a lot of "your numbers are the old format, programming, etc come back when you have numbers that reflect what you have on the air.
Forget about measuring programs/events that run outside the survey period – like sports, elections, x-mass music, major local news events etc.
Radio has been battling an image that it is old - that it isn't as cutting edge or as hip as digital media - well once a year "sticker" measurement doesn't do a lot to prove them wrong.
Advertisers want CURRENT information – they want to evaluate choices based off what is going on now – More importantly - Radio talks about competing in a digital world – a world where audience measurement is immediate - so the way to do this by expecting people to sit at home peel a sticker off one sheet and put it on another sheet, and then go to the mailbox and mail that information back? Where is the nearest mailbox to your house? I can’t even make a guess – with email, on-line bill payment, magazines on-line – except for birthday cards/gifts and jury duty summons – if mail stopped being delivered to me tomorrow – I wouldn’t even notice – correction – I be happy – no more junk mail.
If you thought a 3 month average that looked back to the past was bad - once a year measurement is a joke. Hope stations don't make any major programming changes after the survey comes out – if they do they will be hearing a lot of "your numbers are the old format, programming, etc come back when you have numbers that reflect what you have on the air.
Forget about measuring programs/events that run outside the survey period – like sports, elections, x-mass music, major local news events etc.
Radio has been battling an image that it is old - that it isn't as cutting edge or as hip as digital media - well once a year "sticker" measurement doesn't do a lot to prove them wrong.
My view on this is it's good for Arbitron to get some competition. No one likes a monopoly, and Arbitron has been a monopoly. The PPMs cost way too much, especially considering the sample size. That was a big mistake by Arbitron. They should have kept the metrics strong and the price stable until everyone got hooked. But like everyone, they got greedy.
So now Nielsen is back in radio. Yes, their diary technology is out-dated. But they're not measuring Top 50s yet. I predict this is a temporary plan just to get started. No one questions their TV system. Give them a year and see if they develop something similar for radio. The money won't be as big as it is in TV. But Nielsen has a brand name that means ratings. If they can kick Arbitron in the gut, it's a good thing.
So now Nielsen is back in radio. Yes, their diary technology is out-dated. But they're not measuring Top 50s yet. I predict this is a temporary plan just to get started. No one questions their TV system. Give them a year and see if they develop something similar for radio. The money won't be as big as it is in TV. But Nielsen has a brand name that means ratings. If they can kick Arbitron in the gut, it's a good thing.
S
silentsquealer
Guest
I don't know about the other markets included in the 50, but in the Quad Cities market,
there is no mentionable stations other than Cumulus or Clear Channel ones.
So to say Arbitron is not leaving ANY of the 50 is a lie.
In the QC Market all that's left is an EMF Christian rock station, another Christian station
and a couple of non-comms. Big Business there! Yeah right.
I don't like the methodology they are going to use at all though.
Eastlan would have been a better choice.
And seeing Cumulus subsidizing this "experiment" by
firing all the people they have nationwide, makes me realize
one thing. If the dropping stock price hasn't already scared you away
from buying Cumulus shares, this news should!
RUN!
there is no mentionable stations other than Cumulus or Clear Channel ones.
So to say Arbitron is not leaving ANY of the 50 is a lie.
In the QC Market all that's left is an EMF Christian rock station, another Christian station
and a couple of non-comms. Big Business there! Yeah right.
I don't like the methodology they are going to use at all though.
Eastlan would have been a better choice.
And seeing Cumulus subsidizing this "experiment" by
firing all the people they have nationwide, makes me realize
one thing. If the dropping stock price hasn't already scared you away
from buying Cumulus shares, this news should!
RUN!
If CC and Cumulus are going to buck Arbitron, they need a brand name that's believable. Nielsen has that. Eastlan? Not so much. It's not about methodology. It's about poking a stick in Arbitron's eye, and breaking their de facto monopoly.
Unless, of course, the Nielsen involved is Brigitte, not A.C....
Unless, of course, the Nielsen involved is Brigitte, not A.C....
SirRoxalot said:
Going into Dubu
SirRoxalot said:
Going into Dubuque and Bismark once a year with stickers is hardly poking Arbitron in the eye. The markets selected are pretty much non-transactional, and I'm guessing that national (agency) business in all is about the same as Dubuque... around 10% of market revenue.
Eastlan has around 400 client stations. And name recognition at the local level probably does not favor Neilsen in those market to the extent it would in very transactional markets. Remember, too, that Neilsen was part of the original PPM tests, but did not take the option to partner with Arbitron on the meter. And, too, keep in mind that these small markets are not metered for TV either... they use TV diaries.
Even in Dubuque, the name "Nielsen" carries a lot more weight than the name "Eastlan" with the majority of local clients. If I'm a sales guy, and the local car dealer says "What happened to Arbitron", I've got a much better chance of selling him on a ratings company that he's heard of instead of one that makes him say "WHO?".
It's deja vu all over again to read that Nielsen is getting back into the radio ratings business. My earliest awareness of radio ratings came in the mid-60's as a high school kid growing up in Chicago. My hero, Dan Sorkin, who, among other things, is credited with discovering Bob Newhart, got the Nielsen book one day, and there was a zero in his time slot on WCFL-- Nielsen said he didn't have any listeners. He started talking about it on the air, and asked his listeners to stand in front of a bright light. If they saw their shadow, it was proof that they really existed. He got his listeners to start a letter-writing campaign to Neilsen, and then organized a protest march at their Chicago headquarters on Howard Street. A bunch of us showed up with plenty of clever, funny protest signs. I have photos somewhere in a box in my basement. Shortly after the protest, Nielsen stopped doing radio ratings.
Here's the deal. Arbitron priced itself out of small-market radio with their annual escalators.
In one of our smallest markets (200+) the cost of our Arbitron subscription nearly doubled in 10 years--a 100 percent increase. Sales increased over that same period by about 20 percent, mostly in local direct business that had little or no relationship to ratings. Our national/regional agency business has nearly disappeared, despite excellent ratings (the big guys just stopped buying small markets, for the most part).
We were the last subscriber to drop, so we spent the last several years underwriting ratings for the big cluster across town. We pled our case in trying to renegotiate with Arbitron, but it was like talking to a wall.
My last pitch to Arbitron was a suggestion that they offer a trimmed-down service to small markets--maybe something similar to what Nielsen is purportedly going to offer Cumulus & Clear Channel now. Arbitron's response was that advertisers wanted more information, not less. The implication was that we (radio) would just have to find the money, somewhere, because they weren't going to budge on price.
So we cancelled. Like hundreds of other radio stations.
My interpretation was that Arbitron is making so much money in the major markets that they'd really prefer not to be doing the small markets, anyway. So we could go screw ourselves.
I noticed that Arbitron's stock took a big hit the other day. Maybe that will wake them up. Maybe not.
I'll put money on "not."
In one of our smallest markets (200+) the cost of our Arbitron subscription nearly doubled in 10 years--a 100 percent increase. Sales increased over that same period by about 20 percent, mostly in local direct business that had little or no relationship to ratings. Our national/regional agency business has nearly disappeared, despite excellent ratings (the big guys just stopped buying small markets, for the most part).
We were the last subscriber to drop, so we spent the last several years underwriting ratings for the big cluster across town. We pled our case in trying to renegotiate with Arbitron, but it was like talking to a wall.
My last pitch to Arbitron was a suggestion that they offer a trimmed-down service to small markets--maybe something similar to what Nielsen is purportedly going to offer Cumulus & Clear Channel now. Arbitron's response was that advertisers wanted more information, not less. The implication was that we (radio) would just have to find the money, somewhere, because they weren't going to budge on price.
So we cancelled. Like hundreds of other radio stations.
My interpretation was that Arbitron is making so much money in the major markets that they'd really prefer not to be doing the small markets, anyway. So we could go screw ourselves.
I noticed that Arbitron's stock took a big hit the other day. Maybe that will wake them up. Maybe not.
I'll put money on "not."
jackandcoke said:
You're probably right.
But guys, think of why this is happening. Arbitron has been totally unresponsive to the needs of radio as an industry. We pay for it, and the agencies use the data Arbitron produces to beat down our rates.
The way that data is presented by Arbitron has a lot to do with it. Radio is a powerful medium and radio delivers results. You'd never know it though by our share of all advertising revenue. Radio needs a ratings service that accentuates our positives, not our negatives. I bet the Nielsen data will focus more on radio's huge cume and less on AQH share.
Has anyone here ever bought anything promoted by a click through banner ad or pop up? Probably not, but the new media guys are selling the crap out of them by touting their huge impressions, and they're getting rich at our expense. Radio beats new media hands down when you look at cume. That's OUR huge impressions and that's how we need to compete in the new media world. Unfortunately, Arbitron doesn't give us the right tools to do that.
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