Nine Coverage

[raFessenden]

I'm not from Chicago, but I've been reading about the Variety Hits(JACK-style)format online, and I found out about Nine-FM from a blurb on varietyhits.com.

Judging from the coverage maps on Nine's website, it looks like the ultimate example of rimshotting. Has Nine ever considered starting a translator &/or booster in the city, to improve coverage there?

 

[dave73]

> I'm not from Chicago, but I've been reading about the
> Variety Hits(JACK-style)format online, and I found out about
> Nine-FM from a blurb on varietyhits.com.
>
> Judging from the coverage maps on Nine's website, it looks
> like the ultimate example of rimshotting. Has Nine ever
> considered starting a translator &/or booster in the city,
> to improve coverage there?
>
With the current spacing rules, Nine Fm can't get a translator in the city of Chicago. Numerous suburban stations are already short-spaced with the city grade sticks. 92.3*, 93.1, 93.9, 94.7, 95.5, 96.3, 97.1, 97.9, 98.7, 99.5, 100.3, 101.1, 101.9, 102.7, 103.1*, 103.5, 104.3, 105.1, 105.9, 106.7*, 107.5, & 107.9* all have city grade coverage. In the cases of frequencies with astericks next to them, they have their signal in the suburbs with primary contour in the city of Chicago. I however don't know about 103.1 yet, if they moved their transmitter from Arlington Heights to Evanston yet or not. That move is suppose to give them primary contour over Downtown Chicago. As for boosters, they can't get one on either 99.9 or 92.7 because 99.9 is already short-spaced with 99.5 & 100.3, plus short-spaced with the 99.9 in Benton Harbor Michigan & 99.9 in Janesville Wisconsin. As for 92.7, they're already short-spaced with 92.3 in Hammond Indiana, 92.5 (their simulcast) in Dekalb Illinois, & 92.7 in Kankakee Illinois. With frequencies being scarce in the Chicago market, they simply can't put a translator on the John Hancock, Sears Tower, or the AON Building and cover Downtown Chicago. They're stuck with their rimshot signals targeting Chiago.

 

[musicloverII]

Their rimshots never had a problem showing up before in the ratings, a feat for any suburban station. When your cume is less than the population of a major suburb it doesn't mean no one can hear it means very few care because they're not impressed with what is being put out.

The signals cover 3 million people easily, with no problem and, as I stated, few care. The format is a mess, like Jack here in Chicago. Very few care.

As time goes by their signals become more and more of a depreciating asset and eventually turn into liabilities that Fred will have to dig deep in his pocket to sustain. No biggir for the guy I'm sure but certainly not doing it's best either. I always thought you put your best foot forward and serve market what it wants and needs not what you want to do. When you're the big man on campus with all the money you can do whatever you want, no matter how bad it does.

> > I'm not from Chicago, but I've been reading about the
> > Variety Hits(JACK-style)format online, and I found out
> about
> > Nine-FM from a blurb on varietyhits.com.
> >
> > Judging from the coverage maps on Nine's website, it looks
>
> > like the ultimate example of rimshotting. Has Nine ever
> > considered starting a translator &/or booster in the city,
>
> > to improve coverage there?
> >
> With the current spacing rules, Nine Fm can't get a
> translator in the city of Chicago. Numerous suburban
> stations are already short-spaced with the city grade
> sticks. 92.3*, 93.1, 93.9, 94.7, 95.5, 96.3, 97.1, 97.9,
> 98.7, 99.5, 100.3, 101.1, 101.9, 102.7, 103.1*, 103.5,
> 104.3, 105.1, 105.9, 106.7*, 107.5, & 107.9* all have city
> grade coverage. In the cases of frequencies with astericks
> next to them, they have their signal in the suburbs with
> primary contour in the city of Chicago. I however don't
> know about 103.1 yet, if they moved their transmitter from
> Arlington Heights to Evanston yet or not. That move is
> suppose to give them primary contour over Downtown Chicago.
> As for boosters, they can't get one on either 99.9 or 92.7
> because 99.9 is already short-spaced with 99.5 & 100.3, plus
> short-spaced with the 99.9 in Benton Harbor Michigan & 99.9
> in Janesville Wisconsin. As for 92.7, they're already
> short-spaced with 92.3 in Hammond Indiana, 92.5 (their
> simulcast) in Dekalb Illinois, & 92.7 in Kankakee Illinois.
> With frequencies being scarce in the Chicago market, they
> simply can't put a translator on the John Hancock, Sears
> Tower, or the AON Building and cover Downtown Chicago.
> They're stuck with their rimshot signals targeting Chiago.
>

 

[davideduardo]

>
> The signals cover 3 million people easily, with no problem
> and, as I stated, few care. The format is a mess, like Jack
> here in Chicago. Very few care.
>

The 70 dbu appears to cover around 1.2 million, not 3 million. And 85% of quarter hours come from inside the 70. Add to that the fact that simulcast stations on different frequencies have a real disadvantage as listenrs do not as easily put up with the difficulties of reception, and you have a hard time getting listening.

 

[RadioDoc]

> >
> > The signals cover 3 million people easily, with no problem
>
> > and, as I stated, few care. The format is a mess, like
> Jack
> > here in Chicago. Very few care.
> >
>
> The 70 dbu appears to cover around 1.2 million, not 3
> million. And 85% of quarter hours come from inside the 70.
> Add to that the fact that simulcast stations on different
> frequencies have a real disadvantage as listenrs do not as
> easily put up with the difficulties of reception, and you
> have a hard time getting listening.
>

Musiclover: "The sky is blue"
David: "Research shows the sky is grey"
Musiclover: "The sky is NEVER grey it is blue"
David: "In my xx years of experience I have NEVER seen a blue sky".
Musiclover: "How can you not see what the rest of us have...a blue sky!"

Lather, rinse, repeat.

No offense guys, but it seems like you all argue for the sake of arguing.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>

 

[RockManAC]

> No offense guys, but it seems like you all argue for the
> sake of arguing.

It's kind of like our version of "Grumppy Old Men" (Remember that movie?)

-A <P ID="signature">______________

</P>

 

[davideduardo]

>
> Musiclover: "The sky is blue"
> David: "Research shows the sky is grey"
> Musiclover: "The sky is NEVER grey it is blue"
> David: "In my xx years of experience I have NEVER seen a
> blue sky".
> Musiclover: "How can you not see what the rest of us
> have...a blue sky!"
>
> Lather, rinse, repeat.
>
> No offense guys, but it seems like you all argue for the
> sake of arguing.

Isn't that what these boards are for?

I do admit that debating Musiclover is so muc like grabing low-hanging fruit that it is tempting to challenge him every time he messes up his facts.

In this instance, an awful lot of research has been done to determing how big a signal is needed for listeners to use it regularly. Musiclover comes in with a statement based, no doubt, on his n=1 experience and the loverly maps at radio-locator. And in doing so, overestimates the vaible audience of the Newsweb stations by about 60%.

Even if you are not hungry, it is tough to pas by an opportunity to shoot fish in a barrel.


>

 

[RadioDoc]

> >
> > Musiclover: "The sky is blue"
> > David: "Research shows the sky is grey"
> > Musiclover: "The sky is NEVER grey it is blue"
> > David: "In my xx years of experience I have NEVER seen a
> > blue sky".
> > Musiclover: "How can you not see what the rest of us
> > have...a blue sky!"
> >
> > Lather, rinse, repeat.
> >
> > No offense guys, but it seems like you all argue for the
> > sake of arguing.
>
> Isn't that what these boards are for?
>
> I do admit that debating Musiclover is so muc like grabing
> low-hanging fruit that it is tempting to challenge him every
> time he messes up his facts.
>
> In this instance, an awful lot of research has been done to
> determing how big a signal is needed for listeners to use it
> regularly. Musiclover comes in with a statement based, no
> doubt, on his n=1 experience and the loverly maps at
> radio-locator. And in doing so, overestimates the vaible
> audience of the Newsweb stations by about 60%.
>
> Even if you are not hungry, it is tough to pas by an
> opportunity to shoot fish in a barrel.
>
>
> >
>

Boy, even in replying to me you can't help yourself. Just had to get that dig in.

Oh well, I'm not going to enable you, or engage you in the exact activity that I was trying to joke about.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>

 

[davideduardo]

> > No offense guys, but it seems like you all argue for the
> > sake of arguing.
>
> It's kind of like our version of "Grumppy Old Men"
> (Remember that movie?)

There is an expression in Spanish that goes, "trying to hide the sky with the palm of the hand" and it fits here... you, Musiclover and RadioDoc and pip are failing to distinguis points of view from facts.

A point of view is something like "advertisers should pay mor attention to 55+ listeners." Or, "I think the new mix on B 96 is too urban leaning." Everyone has a right to that type of oopinion.

But when you take the laws of physics (signal strength) and analysis of tens of thousands of diaries and ignore it so you can come up with you own estimate of the potential listenership to a signal, that is covering the sky with the palm of your hand.

There is nothing "grumpy" about facts... nor is there anything cheerful about them. They are just facts.

 

[RockManAC]

> There is nothing "grumpy" about facts... nor is there
> anything cheerful about them. They are just facts.

David.. We have a saying in English... "Chill!"

I was not saying anything about the facts. Facts are facts. I was mainily trying to make a joke! Relax, laugh a little! It's good for you!

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>

 

[RockManAC]

> Boy, even in replying to me you can't help yourself. Just
> had to get that dig in.
>
> Oh well, I'm not going to enable you, or engage you in the
> exact activity that I was trying to joke about.

The problem with them is that they're both in the industry and both have differing philosophies.

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>

 

[RockManAC]

> I do admit that debating Musiclover is so muc like grabing
> low-hanging fruit that it is tempting to challenge him every
> time he messes up his facts.
>
> In this instance, an awful lot of research has been done to
> determing how big a signal is needed for listeners to use it
> regularly. Musiclover comes in with a statement based, no
> doubt, on his n=1 experience and the loverly maps at
> radio-locator. And in doing so, overestimates the vaible
> audience of the Newsweb stations by about 60%.
>
> Even if you are not hungry, it is tough to pas by an
> opportunity to shoot fish in a barrel.

You do realize ML2 is not just some "joe shmoe" and is actually in the radio industry, right?

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>

 

[davideduardo]

> > Boy, even in replying to me you can't help yourself. Just
>
> > had to get that dig in.
> >
> > Oh well, I'm not going to enable you, or engage you in the
>
> > exact activity that I was trying to joke about.
>
> The problem with them is that they're both in the industry
> and both have differing philosophies.

Up to now, I have seen no evidence that Musiclover is actually in the industry. In truth, he has so many of the basics wrong, that would be hard to believe.

 

[davideduardo]

> > There is nothing "grumpy" about facts... nor is there
> > anything cheerful about them. They are just facts.
>
> David.. We have a saying in English... "Chill!"

The chill I felt came from your original post in this particular fork in the thread. Suggesting that debate was argumentative, besides being obvious, obviates the purpose of these boards.

Perhaps I am a little sensitive to attempts to chill, using your word again, dissent or debate. It comes from living at times in places where the freedom of expression was not an easy commodity and thus prized all the more. When you have a friend killed for dissenting, you, as well, will have this appreciation.
>
> I was not saying anything about the facts. Facts are facts.
> I was mainily trying to make a joke! Relax, laugh a
> little! It's good for you!

Jokes that suggest dissent, debate and divergent opinions should be thwarted are not particularly funny.

 

[magicmk]

> > I'm not from Chicago, but I've been reading about the
> > Variety Hits(JACK-style)format online, and I found out
> about
> > Nine-FM from a blurb on varietyhits.com.
> >
> > Judging from the coverage maps on Nine's website, it looks
>
> > like the ultimate example of rimshotting. Has Nine ever
> > considered starting a translator &/or booster in the city,
>
> > to improve coverage there?
> >
> With the current spacing rules, Nine Fm can't get a
> translator in the city of Chicago. Numerous suburban
> stations are already short-spaced with the city grade
> sticks. 92.3*, 93.1, 93.9, 94.7, 95.5, 96.3, 97.1, 97.9,
> 98.7, 99.5, 100.3, 101.1, 101.9, 102.7, 103.1*, 103.5,
> 104.3, 105.1, 105.9, 106.7*, 107.5, & 107.9* all have city
> grade coverage. In the cases of frequencies with astericks
> next to them, they have their signal in the suburbs with
> primary contour in the city of Chicago. I however don't
> know about 103.1 yet, if they moved their transmitter from
> Arlington Heights to Evanston yet or not. That move is
> suppose to give them primary contour over Downtown Chicago.
> As for boosters, they can't get one on either 99.9 or 92.7
> because 99.9 is already short-spaced with 99.5 & 100.3, plus
> short-spaced with the 99.9 in Benton Harbor Michigan & 99.9
> in Janesville Wisconsin. As for 92.7, they're already
> short-spaced with 92.3 in Hammond Indiana, 92.5 (their
> simulcast) in Dekalb Illinois, & 92.7 in Kankakee Illinois.
> With frequencies being scarce in the Chicago market, they
> simply can't put a translator on the John Hancock, Sears
> Tower, or the AON Building and cover Downtown Chicago.
> They're stuck with their rimshot signals targeting Chiago.
>

Since the rest of the thread has gone mostly off-topic, guess I'll place this here...

The tri-cast (which did not include 99.9 at the time) did quite alright as dance when it was Energy. No numbers that were startling, but respectable for a limited signal - and they made money. That's the bottom line, of course.

The corporate parent closed their doors, sold the station(s) and it was flipped to spanish. Being suburban and rural in coverage, it virtually disappeared from the books for two years. Then it was sold again and made the change to Nine.

Really, with coverage like they have now (and that includes 99.9 in Kankakee now), there's not a lot you can do with it other than try to offer programming not being duplicated on a bigger city-grade signal. The only differences that I can perceive between Nine and Jack right now is that Nine is live with air talent, and they make an attempt to offer some different programming on the weekends.

Personally, I think the station would do better if they went all-80's or dance, were it programmed properly. Just my 2 cents though.

 

[davideduardo]

>
> You do realize ML2 is not just some "joe shmoe" and is
> actually in the radio industry, right?

You certainly could have fooled me.

A couple of threads come to mind that show fundamental lack of knowledge.

First, the repetitive and recurring one about Energy making money displays a lack of knowledge of the station operation, of the business of radio and the reasons why BCR was liquidated.

Second, the surrealism of the assertion that WVIV & WVIX would have to reach out and get non-Hispanic cume to make reggaetón a success as a format was about as ingenuous as anything I have read, particularly since that simulcast is in Spanish!

I compete every day with staitons and people, some of which or whom are better and others which or whom are worse than we are. I've never, however, run into anyone on either side of the fence who is actually in radio with the views ML2 expresses; thus my skepticism.

 

[Rocketman]

David:

In MLII's defense, WKIE/DEK had a combofied one-four during their peak and RZA had a point nine in the same book in question, so to think that a two-three 12+ is not possible in this day and age is preposterous given today's homogenized conditions. Quantify sellable ratings in Rockford and you could have a 10M+ biller targeting Persons 18-34, per se.

Secondly, Matt and the rest of the folks at NINE are good people with focus. No one built ROME in one day and they are trying to do their best without the kind of money that makes the big boys tick. It's almost like David and Goliath, but in the realm of radio.

Another perfect example of great programming is WLUW-FM, Chicago's ORIGINAL Energy, which back in the 90s was CUMING 100,000+ on a single 100 watt tower situated on top of 11 story campus residence hall in Roger's Park. It was a perfect hybrid Rhythmic CHR playing Dance Hits, Original Top 40 releases with an occasional remix if it was hot, and yes, hip hop! Program Directors that established the format that lead to its vast popularity amongst the 18-34 demographic include Jeff Andrews, Rob Creighton, and Jammin' Down JD. David, I wonder how much money we could have billed there if we were a commercial station! I'm sure Loyola could have used the extra income! This way, they wouldn't have to rely on the money they now receive from NPR to stay afloat!

-Rob<P ID="signature">______________
Rob Austin
Vice President
JamTraxx Media Inc.
http://www.jamtraxxmedia.com
"Major Market Solutions for Your Radio Station's Needs!"</P>

 

[Rocketman]

> > You do realize ML2 is not just some "joe shmoe" and is
> > actually in the radio industry, right?

Yes, many have speculated that fact.

> You certainly could have fooled me.
>
> A couple of threads come to mind that show fundamental lack
> of knowledge.
>
> First, the repetitive and recurring one about Energy making
> money displays a lack of knowledge of the station operation,
> of the business of radio and the reasons why BCR was
> liquidated.

Enron anyone? LOL! Cook the books! Seriously, I heard 6M as the final number for all five stations as of their last fiscal year.

> Second, the surrealism of the assertion that WVIV & WVIX
> would have to reach out and get non-Hispanic cume to make
> reggaetón a success as a format was about as ingenuous as
> anything I have read, particularly since that simulcast is
> in Spanish!

Just wait and see what happens when they move their Highland Park transmitter to Evanston! =)

> I compete every day with stations and people, some of which
> or whom are better and others which or whom are worse than
> we are. I've never, however, run into anyone on either side
> of the fence who is actually in radio with the views ML2
> expresses; thus my skepticism.

Don't hate MLII's ambitious nature for quality radio programming and products. He's a passionate "programmer," from the sounds of his posts, and is welcome to express his first amendment right to free speech. It's one's ambitions that will drive you either to success or insanity. =) The message boards reflect such an equilibrium. <P ID="signature">______________
Rob Austin
Vice President
JamTraxx Media Inc.
http://www.jamtraxxmedia.com
"Major Market Solutions for Your Radio Station's Needs!"</P>

 

[musicloverII]

Mr. Eduardo never lets reality or facts get in the way of his beliefs. Your assessment IS ON POINT - FROM BILLING TO MATT but the focus is wrong, the problem is ownership doesn't care that's all. It's a lost cause to waste time on it because ownership is doing what IT wants, market be damned. Does the number less than 170K resonate? Figure it out. 3 million possible. Bad radio and as you pointed out, probably not Matt's fault. Rome may not have been in a day but it was built and finally conquered some territory. That's not been done and won't. With Fred, I don't think he'll change his mind as long as he doesn't care about billing.

> David:
>
> In MLII's defense, WKIE/DEK had a combofied one-four during
> their peak and RZA had a point nine in the same book in
> question, so to think that a two-three 12+ is not possible
> in this day and age is preposterous given today's
> homogenized conditions. Quantify sellable ratings in
> Rockford and you could have a 10M+ biller targeting Persons
> 18-34, per se.
>
> Secondly, Matt and the rest of the folks at NINE are good
> people with focus. No one built ROME in one day and they
> are trying to do their best without the kind of money that
> makes the big boys tick. It's almost like David and
> Goliath, but in the realm of radio.
>
> Another perfect example of great programming is WLUW-FM,
> Chicago's ORIGINAL Energy, which back in the 90s was CUMING
> 100,000+ on a single 100 watt tower situated on top of 11
> story campus residence hall in Roger's Park. It was a
> perfect hybrid Rhythmic CHR playing Dance Hits, Original Top
> 40 releases with an occasional remix if it was hot, and yes,
> hip hop! Program Directors that established the format that
> lead to its vast popularity amongst the 18-34 demographic
> include Jeff Andrews, Rob Creighton, and Jammin' Down JD.
> David, I wonder how much money we could have billed there if
> we were a commercial station! I'm sure Loyola could have
> used the extra income! This way, they wouldn't have to rely
> on the money they now receive from NPR to stay afloat!
>
> -Rob
>

 

[Rocketman]

Are you saying that they are only billing 170K a month? Someone mentioned here some time ago that internally they are looking to bill a challenging $6-7M.<P ID="signature">______________
Rob Austin
Vice President
JamTraxx Media Inc.
http://www.jamtraxxmedia.com
"Major Market Solutions for Your Radio Station's Needs!"</P>