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No Christmas Bump?

S

SirRoxalot

The Fall numbers are out, and we get a look at all the Buffalo stations for what might be the last time if the rumors about Cumu-less dropping their Arbitron subscription are correct. Basically, there's not much to see here - which is unusual in itself. Of course, these the 12+ numbers, so the demos may be different...

The Fall period ended December 7th, so the Winter book might be more telling, but neither WJYE nor Star seemed to have gotten a bump from Christmas music. Star held steady at a 4.2. Joy actually continued a downward trend that goes 6.0-5.7-5.4 from last Spring. Maybe the early start didn't really excite listeners this year, huh? As I say, the demos may say differently...

'YRK lost a share but remains #1. 'BEN continued a slow upward trend, but the combo of 930 & 107.7 still aren't getting as much audience as the two frequencies had when they were separate. 'GR enjoyed the annual Sabres bump, which only goes to show how pathetic they are without the Sabres. 'BLK is up a share, while Kiss continued a slight downward trend. Maybe that shows who the station is for music discovery among the younger listeners. Or, it could be a demonstration of who's better at getting people to write their call letters in a diary.

'BUF, which got kissed in the last book, got slapped in this one. They went from a 4.8 to a 3.5 - or from above their recent average to well below. WECK's experiment with music and an FM translator went down to a .4. Maybe they need a little more time. The FM didn't come on until early November. Everybody else is within a few tenths of their recent averages, with WHTT and The Edge being the "best of the rest" with a .4 gain.
 
I hope this starts a trend where they will stop this ridiculous Christmas music ten+ days before Thanksgiving.
 
That neither All Christmas Music AC station went through the roof in the Fall book is curious, but then again, these are Persons 12+ ratings, so Women 25-54 may in fact look very good for Star and Joy.

The Cumulus FMs are up, which is a good thing because it may help the air staffs stay employed and immunize them from Dickey's RIF reapers. WBEN is only a hair above were it was a year ago without the FM simulcast. The jury's still out, but wouldn't it be fair to say some of WBEN's Fall figure results from FM listening. Still, a zero sum game. The Kiss-Star dynamic must be a challenge for the programmers at Corporate Parkway. Perhaps the sales mavens choose to accept the Fall book as being more representative/valid for Star and the Spring book more valid for Kiss. This reasoning doesn't make sense, but it wouldn't be the first time a GM or SM discounted one survey for one of its stations in favor of the other. Townsquare Media's WBLK looks to be as solid as Linc Hayes.

WJJL threw a no hitter. The new owner will fix that as soon as the FCC approves the transfer. WLVL also came up empty. The new all business format not getting much business.

Although it debuted after the book began, I expected WECK's eclectic AC format would do much better than a point 4. Maybe it hits its stride in the Winter book. WWWS, Buffalo's other Class C, gets a 1.6. WUFO, a daytimer, pulls a point 5. Those aren't elephant numbers, but they're better than WECK.

WWWS. Amazing. A kilowatter on 1400 doubles the share of a 50 kw clear. KB was once a great signature, now it stands for Knowingly Bad.
 
A minor correction, Niner. WECK's format debuted in July during the summer book. So, WECK was music for the entre fall book. I like the Breeze, so this is disappointing. I'm at a loss at what WECK can do to attract an audience.
 
Philip_Airtime said:
A minor correction, Niner. WECK's format debuted in July during the summer book. So, WECK was music for the entre fall book. I like the Breeze, so this is disappointing. I'm at a loss at what WECK can do to attract an audience.
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You are correct, Phil. I was thinking of the FM translator simulcast which began in the Fall book. July, eh? Even worse. The breeze blows off the lake in fall and winter.
 
Let's face it - music on AM sucks. WECK's FM translator has earned button-space on my car radio, though, replacing 107.7. I find myself drifting to it - and away from it - on a regular basis. It's a nice alternative when I'm tire of NPR, and the other guys are playing songs that have gotten a bit too crispy for my ears. Give it another couple of books before you burn it down.
 
Philip_Airtime said:
A minor correction, Niner. WECK's format debuted in July during the summer book. So, WECK was music for the entre fall book. I like the Breeze, so this is disappointing. I'm at a loss at what WECK can do to attract an audience.
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It would really help if you could at least recieve WECK-FM throughout Buffalo, but you can't even pick it up in Amherst.
 
Snyder and Williamsville as well. Interesting to me that they promote it first as "FM (and AM)" when the FM signal is absolutely unlistenable in so much of the market.
 
I'm kinda shocked that ANYONE is surprised that WECK has a .4

OF COURSE THEY HAVE HORRIBLE NUMBERS! They're playing music on a rimshot AM in 2012!!!!!!!

Who in God's name is going to listen to that? I honestly do sometimes stop on 1230 and think to myself "do they really think ANYBODY is gonna bother with this?"

My incredulousness over this is only eclipsed by the way I feel when I read people discussing HD radio like anybody friggin listens to it!Sometimes radio insiders really are too close to the situation to have a clear perception of reality.
 
Rox says music on AM sucks. I don't totally disagree, but the ratings for WHLD and WWWS give some cause to believe that people will listen to music on AM if the format is right. Could it be that an AC music on AM sucks? Or an AC format with features like "Ask The Expert" in middays, college sports on nights and weekends, and a polka show on Sunday isn't exactly a formula for ratings success, especially in a market dominated by Entercom, Cumulus and Townsquare?

There's a hole in this market for Oldies, a hole large enough to allow plenty of light and air to pass. Oldies. 1955-1979. Rotations concentrated on 1957-1969. The hits. The hit artists and groups. With moderately broader depth. Elvis, The Beatles, British Invasion, Stones, Kinks and The Who, Memphis & Motown, Aretha, Temps 'n Tops, Four Seasons, Roy, The Girl Groups, Beach Boys and Surf Music. You could do a year's worth of programming features with "Beatles at 15 and 45" and/or "Elvis Top & Bottom of Every Hour" alone. Go nuts. Temps n Tops on The Tens. ... Alright. The Temps n Tops on The Tens is a reach. But just remember, you read it here first. Twenty-twenty news (delivered by a news person) or news First at 25 and 55.

An Oldies format would reach demos younger than Swing 1270 and marginally equal to and older than those who listen to Classic Hits. Oldies would reach listeners 55-70 years of age. You'd have "a pig in the snake," persons 64-70. These aren't what radio mavens and demographers consider "highly desirable demos," but the format would reach significantly more ears than a point 4. What's more productive, selling a point 4 share Persons 12+, or a 5 (or greater) share Persons 55+? OK, chuck the ratings. You want to sell listener/customer response to an AC station with a point 4 or a market exclusive Oldies format that reaches Stan, Louie, Sophie and Tina 55+?

There are thousands of 55+ listeners in WECK's 5 mV/m daytime contour: East Side Buffalo and Cheektowaga, Snyder, Williamsville, Kenmore-Tonawanda, West Seneca and Lackawanna that would make an Oldies station a regular check in point each day.

WECK already has people in place that could expertly do such format, and there's air talent in the market who could fill the gaps if and when it became a possibility.

First objection: "KB did this format and it failed." Yes, but it was not effectively done, even with bigger than life personalities. They sounded miscast in the presentation. Second objection: "As soon as it's successful, somebody will do it on FM." This is not a format that the big owners want to put on their FMs because it doesn't yield the king size 25-49 format that the big boys need for survival (and debt service.) Third objection: "It has a limited shelf life." WECK is getting a point four as The Breeze, which has been on the air since mid summer. You'd think it would have at least a 2 share, not a point 4. Look at what WHLD did with Swing and what WWWS consistently does with Solid Gold Soul. AM stations generating the whole numbers.

As for WECK's 102.9 translator (W275BB 102.9 FM, Lancaster, NY). Good to have a translator these days, but this freq is shoehorned between a rock and a hard place: WTSS, a 110kw "C" on the left, and WEDG, a 50 kw "B" on the right. Hot AC to the left; Active Rock to the right of the 72 watt translator at 150 feet. It's a tough neighborhood. If the antenna height was at 500', the signal would be better, but there are no 500 foot structures in Cheektowaga because the Buffalo airport is down the street from the WECK ranch. You can't discount an AM that covers significantly more population in favor of an FM that covers a dozen neighborhoods. FM image is one thing, reaching and covering communities with ears, especially with the right format, is more important.

That's my buck tree eighty from the sidelines and the way I hear it on this side of the radio.
 
JustPastBuffalo said:
There's a hole in this market for Oldies, a hole large enough to allow plenty of light and air to pass. Oldies. 1955-1979.
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My view is it's not one format. Those are three audiences that you're programming to. Three demos. And there's a level of intolerance among them for the other types of music. The British invasion folks can't stand doo wop. The doo wop folks hate the 70s. Everyone loves The Beatles. That's one area for agreement. But that's why they're getting played on Classic Hits. In fact, this is the reason for the whole redefinition of Oldies into Classic Hits. It also explains the success of the decades stations on Sirius.

I agree that Adult Standards should be dead. The audience is well above the traditional advertiser demo. But it's a very united audience, and a very tolerant audience for a broad range of music that may not relate to their experience. In other words, they didn't grow up with Glenn Miller, but they're aware of him and aren't opposed to him. I'm amazed how narrow the audience is for Beach Boys music. We're coming into a year when there should be a huge interest in the Beach Boys. You have their first tour with Mike Love and Brian Wilson in 25 years, and the 50th anniversary of the Endless Summer. But the audience is very narrow, and we may see weak ticket sales for this tour regardless of the hype. If you're a classic hits station, you're probably only playing one or two Beach Boys songs. If you were doing traditional Oldies, you'd play more. But the Beach Boys were basically dead after Good Vibrations, so they won't work for fans of the 70s. All this may mellow as these demos age. But right now, these divisions are still pretty fresh, and could hurt the kind of 25-year format you're proposing.
 
Uh-oh. I'm about to agree with "TheBigA".

Oldies could work for WECK, but it would have to be '55-'69. Maybe some of the early '70s pop that doesn't get played in Classic Hits formats can sneak in, but even that would have to be carefully selected. Ditto the '55-'64 music. Elvis, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, and a soupçon of Little Richard. Eddie Cochrane. Del Shannon. Girls groups? Some. Doo-Wop? Carefully selected, and in a rotation that keeps it in the "Oh-Wow" category and doesn't burn it. Dion is the transitional artist.

Bread & butter? Beatles, Stones, Who, Kinks, DC5, and mid-'60s pop - Jay & the Americans, Grass Roots, Monkees, Rascals, Dusty Springfield, Petula Clark, Association, Mamas & Papas, Lovin' Spoonful, and a healthy dose of Motown/Atco/Memphis/Muscle Shoals.

The FM could help make the music sound good, and the web stream would really get pushed as a the way to listen. The web stream would be critical - which means spending some money to process it well and give it enough bandwidth to pass FM-like audio.
 
SirRoxalot said:
Uh-oh. I'm about to agree with "TheBigA".
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Does this mean I could be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, or could it be the Mayans were right about 2012?

Gentlemen, points taken. I've worked both formats and undertstand the distinction between Oldies and Classic Hits. You'll note I suggested, "Rotations concentrated on 1957-1969." Anything from '70-'79 would have to be format compatible and be judiciously integrated. WHTT does a fine job of defining the Classic Hits genre; it's 70s intensive, with seasoning from the 60s and 80s. The last thing you'd want to do is tangle with that station. They'd run you over.

Oldies, by contrast, would feature the 60s, seasoned by 50s and some 70s. As to the clash between doo-wop and British Invasion, nobody is suggesting direct segues from The Five Satins "In The Still of the Night" to The Kinks "All Day and All of the Night." This is where a good PD manipulates Selector or Music Master to make the format work. To the bigger picture, I stand by my contention that an Oldies format would generate more listeners. It might even work better with the brokered UB sports programming than does "eclectic" AC. But "Ask the Expert" doesn't work with any music format. It may generate revenue, but unless the format is talk, it has no place in a music format.
 
JustPastBuffalo said:
I stand by my contention that an Oldies format would generate more listeners.
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OK...here comes another shock for you.

My studies say that the Oldies audience tends to be more interested in heritage talent than most other formats. So they might hire or make arrangements with heritage Buffalo talent. Obviously, some no longer live in Buffalo, so they'd VT from their current location. But if you're going to attempt to be a really unique Oldies station in a market with a Classic Hits station, you might need some familiar names to make it work. Then again, a small AM in Pittsburgh attempted that exact thing with one of their local legends, and it fell flat on its face.
 
I love WHTT, and I think there I iphone stream is one of the best out there, CD Quailty, However, sometimes I do go to WECK to listen to a different variety of classic hits. Sometimes, WHTT can get, let's say, a tadd "perdictable" where they play a wide range of classic hits, but you just know what they will be playing.
 
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