No Country

[briancraig]

Since KZLA has switched formats, markets 1, 2 & 4 are without country stations.

I know country may not be the most popular genres in those markets, but it is not good for the business not to have a country station in the two media capitals.

 

[Jay F]

We have all seen endless threads about no country station in NY. My longtime prediction, which ended up coming true today, has been that LA would have zero country stations long before NY would have one.

I think that country will be fine without NY, LA, and SF. Those just aren't country markets, you can't expect radio owners to "waste" a good signal on a format that's not going to get ratings or revenue.

Hopefully the country music industry and country fans won't get too stressed over this. I say quit wasting energy fighting an uphill battle you will never win. Be happy that country music and country radio is very popular in most of the U.S. Cater towards the people that like you and make them love you all the more. The CMAs should NOT have been in NYC, give up on on NY already. Target the fan base in places that love country music whether it be Kansas City or Oklahoma City, Portland Oregon or Portland Maine. Give up on NY and LA.

 

[briancraig]

I agree somewhat that it is probably no big deal not to have country in NY or LA.

Country is having a very good year in both ratings and sales.

However, often the media doesn't look at what "flyover" country is listening to or buying and rarely understands country music.

Does anyone remember the "country music is dead" story that the New York Times ran in the late 1980s? They will even still sometimes call it "country and western"

I just think the genre is healthier when it is represented in the two entertainment capitals. I've even started to hear some people act like country is just for "red state people."

 

[Jeffrey]

I agree somewhat that it is probably no big deal not to have country in NY or LA.

Country is having a very good year in both ratings and sales.

However, often the media doesn't look at what "flyover" country is listening to or buying and rarely understands country music.

Does anyone remember the "country music is dead" story that the New York Times ran in the late 1980s? They will even still sometimes call it "country and western"

I just think the genre is healthier when it is represented in the two entertainment capitals. I've even started to hear some people act like country is just for "red state people."

Alot of country music is conservative, right wing, red state based. The genre has many hit songs that reflect prowar, conservative, redneck type attitudes.
While I agree it's not all like that, most country music listeners are from red states and most country stations wouldn't play the Dixie Chicks after their anti Bush comments.
Is that not red enough for you?

 

[sjs1959]

On the other hand..

Some of the greatest country music ever made was recorded in LA at Capitol udner Ken nelson, such as Bock Owens and Merle Haggard.

What will this do to the ACM?

 

[Jay F]

If you would break down the stats of where country radio thrives or struggles, I would have no doubt it does better in red states than blue states.

If you would break it down by zip code or voting district you would also find country radio does well in Republican areas of blue states, such as many suburban areas of big cities. You would also find Country does poorly in the most inner city urban areas of red states,

Let's face it the more "country" the setting, the better country radio is going to do. These suburban, small town, and rural areas also vote more Republican. The red state/country radio correlation does exist and it's a strong correlation.

 

[MusicMaestro]

We have all seen endless threads about no country station in NY. My longtime prediction, which ended up coming true today, has been that LA would have zero country stations long before NY would have one.

I think that country will be fine without NY, LA, and SF. Those just aren't country markets, you can't expect radio owners to "waste" a good signal on a format that's not going to get ratings or revenue.

Hopefully the country music industry and country fans won't get too stressed over this. I say quit wasting energy fighting an uphill battle you will never win. Be happy that country music and country radio is very popular in most of the U.S. Cater towards the people that like you and make them love you all the more. The CMAs should NOT have been in NYC, give up on on NY already. Target the fan base in places that love country music whether it be Kansas City or Oklahoma City, Portland Oregon or Portland Maine. Give up on NY and LA.

Brilliant response, J!! Dittos to you!!!!

 

[briancraig]

The idea that country is mainly popular in red states is a myth.

In total listeners, country is ranked:

Seattle 2
Spokane 2 and 5
Portland, Oregon 1 and 2 (very liberal city)
San Diego 2
Sacramento 2
Fresno 2
Bakersfield 1
Riverside 3
Philadelphia 5
Pittsburgh 3
Minneapolis 3
Milwaukee 2
Madison 4 (very liberal)
Rockford 1
Peoria 2
Buffalo, Syracuse, Rochester and Albany 1
Portland, Maine 2
Hartford 3
Providence 1
Baltimore 2

What do all these markets have in common. They are in BLUE States.

 

[Jay F]

It's not as simple as red state/blue state. Liberal states have conservative areas and conservative states have liberal cities. I am familiar with several of the markets you mentioned and know their politics. Here are some examples.

The San Joaquin Valley in California which includes Bakersfield and Fresno is conservative farmland country. Culturally and politically it has more in common with Texas and Oklahoma than L.A or San Francisco. Another California market you mentioned where country does well, San Diego is considered conservative and voted for Bush in 04.

Portland Ore certainly is a liberal city. But suburban counties such as Clackamas, where I am positive country does well, are red.

Milwaukee county Wis is liberal but suburban areas are Republican. For example, Waukesha county voted over 2X for Bush over Kerry in 04. Believe me when I tell you country music is FAR more popular in Waukesha county than in liberal areas of Milwaukee such as the "fashionable east side" (hippie/liberal) or the many ethnic areas of Milwaukee county.

I am not as familiar with all the markets you listed but I would expect to see the same trend. Everything from politics to radio listening preferences are vastly different between city and suburbs.

 

[J-Street]

Jay's post does nothing to disprove briancraig's numbers. The truth is, the ENTIRE country is made up of liberal cities and conservative areas surrounding it. Has anyone ever seen a COUNTY by COUNTY presidential election map? You would stop even mentioning blue or red "states." If you look at the blue/red county election maps for any presidential election, especially the last one, the entire united states is 90% red, by pure area size.

 

[Jay F]

All I'm trying to say is that country radio has a higher share of listeners in the red areas than in the urban islands of blue. That's why many rual areas have multiple country stations while NY and now LA have none.

If Country get's a high share in a market in a blue state, many of the country diaries are coming from suburban red areas as opposed to the blue central city. The real myth, is that radio format preferences are exactly the same in all parts of a metro area.

 

[J-Street]

Jay hit it right on this time. I was wanting to be break the argument into counties or at least markets instead of all this state talk because that makes no sense. Now Jay wants to break up the metro area, saying it's a myth that the entire metro area has basically the same tastes in music. I agree, it's a myth. But that's exactly why there should be a country station in all markets. I live in market 99 I think is where we were last. Of course country is #1 here but stations with Alternative Rock for example that are #5 aren't complaining. #5 is good here. Why is a country station that could be a #5 in a top 10 market a bad thing? I would think top 5 in a top 10 market would be great and I assure you if there's only ONE country station in the area, it will be top 5 no matter where you are.

 

[davideduardo]

Jay hit it right on this time. I was wanting to be break the argument into counties or at least markets instead of all this state talk because that makes no sense. Now Jay wants to break up the metro area, saying it's a myth that the entire metro area has basically the same tastes in music. I agree, it's a myth. But that's exactly why there should be a country station in all markets. I live in market 99 I think is where we were last. Of course country is #1 here but stations with Alternative Rock for example that are #5 aren't complaining. #5 is good here. Why is a country station that could be a #5 in a top 10 market a bad thing? I would think top 5 in a top 10 market would be great and I assure you if there's only ONE country station in the area, it will be top 5 no matter where you are.

The most recent change, that of KZLA in LA, does not confirm your contention.

Market #2, but KZLA was 20th in 25-54 in the ratings. And that was a pretty good showing for country in LA.

In some markets, there is no way a lone country station can be #1, and LA is the biggest proof.

 

[BDBopper]

The idea that country is mainly popular in red states is a myth.

In total listeners, country is ranked:

Seattle 2
Spokane 2 and 5
Portland, Oregon 1 and 2 (very liberal city)
San Diego 2
Sacramento 2
Fresno 2
Bakersfield 1
Riverside 3
Philadelphia 5
Pittsburgh 3
Minneapolis 3
Milwaukee 2
Madison 4 (very liberal)
Rockford 1
Peoria 2
Buffalo, Syracuse, Rochester and Albany 1
Portland, Maine 2
Hartford 3
Providence 1
Baltimore 2

What do all these markets have in common. They are in BLUE States.

I do agree with you for the most part but some of those are red cities. San Diego is Red, so is Spokane, Pittsburgh is incresingly conservative, Minnesota is slipping towards a red state, and most of Illinois is Red but all it takes is Chicago to turn it blue (which it is) and the same goes with New York as far as NYC is concerned.

Also not all Country is Conservative. Willie Nelson, Tim McGraw, and Garth Brooks are Democrats.

I don't think it is a Red State vs. Blue state thign at all. Country music is about to phase out in the minstream again. It's a cycle that the genre has gone through since the beginning. There's no Ray Charles or Charlie Pride in the business to introduce African Americans to the genre and/or connect to them.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

What about Cowboy Troy?

( ;D )

 

[Jeffrey]

Jay hit it right on this time. I was wanting to be break the argument into counties or at least markets instead of all this state talk because that makes no sense. Now Jay wants to break up the metro area, saying it's a myth that the entire metro area has basically the same tastes in music. I agree, it's a myth. But that's exactly why there should be a country station in all markets. I live in market 99 I think is where we were last. Of course country is #1 here but stations with Alternative Rock for example that are #5 aren't complaining. #5 is good here. Why is a country station that could be a #5 in a top 10 market a bad thing? I would think top 5 in a top 10 market would be great and I assure you if there's only ONE country station in the area, it will be top 5 no matter where you are.

The most recent change, that of KZLA in LA, does not confirm your contention.

Market #2, but KZLA was 20th in 25-54 in the ratings. And that was a pretty good showing for country in LA.

In some markets, there is no way a lone country station can be #1, and LA is the biggest proof.

I think his point, incorrect as it may be, was that a country station could at least be number 5 in "any market".
Obviously that is not a correct theory or observation as numbers show us otherwise.

 

[R.D.P.]

Explain this one to me.

I live in a city, with less than 50,000 residents. Most of my hometown is majority Black and we still have a Country Radio Station.

Since Selma Alabama is majority black, why do we still have a Country radio station.? I don't see how Dixie 100.1 (WDXX) is still making it, in a community like mine.

I find that amazing, although our population has been dropping over the past few years.

R.D.P. <><

P.S. My hometown is located west of Montgomery and south of Birmingham. Those two cities have a huge Black population and still have Country on their airwaves. I'm suprised that Montgomery, Birmingham and even Selma are still able to support Country music, on the radio airwaves.

 

[briancraig]

The Birmingham Arbitron market is about 30 percent black. Montgomery probably 40 percent black.

The 60 to 70 percent of the market that is non-ethnic in those areas are heavy users of country radio.

 

[J-Street]

Ok so you proved me pretty wrong, in some part. I think it was a mistake for KZLA to change their format, but I'm not familiar with the reach the stations are working with out there. I'm curious if KZLA reaches the suburbs. Does anyone know? I live in a market with 10-20 stations worth mentioning where top 5 is great. Maybe LA has 30-40 worth mentioning where top 15 would be good. I realize you said KZLA was 20 in the one demo you mentioned but I bet you mentioned the worst demo for it to make your point, or maybe you didn't. I can't argue with your point against mine, it made pretty good sense. But I still think every market should have at least one country station. With no direct competition, they should at least be successful enough to make money, but then you get into the big corporate mess. With no direct competition, maybe that's when it comes down to promotions. Maybe KZLA did a bad job there. But again, I'm curious if they reach the suburbs.

 

[romer979fm]

Since LA is so huge...it's hard to define "suburbs".
Outside of downtown...and this is just my outside opinion...I find
LA to be a huge blend of smaller communities. It's all one huge urban
area, but with countless personalities. I used to fly into Ontario, and
drive to Simi Valley...about 70 miles that looks pretty much the same...
it's all an urban blur until you get off the freeway.
KZLA's signal served Orange County pretty well...but is that really the 'burbs?
KHAY is listenable in east Ventura county...not much signal in the West Valley.
KFRG covers the Inland Empire. KZLA didn't really fail...they just ran out of
available audience to make the numbers work.
My guess is Amaturo will try country on the Fountain Valley 92.7 (leaving Jill in TO and outside Riverside)...in an effort to finally get the price they want.
Will it work? Not without a talented staff...and that ain't gonna happen.