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NO "HD-SCORECARD"
- Thread starter JIBGUY
- Start date
R
Radioman100
Guest
JIBGUY said:
I bet it has more to do with oversight and ineptitude on Radio World's new owner's part than anything else.
I moved a while back and went online to fill out the forms to move my subscription. Weeks went by and I didn't receive one. I sent a few e-mails to the staff. They apologized and blamed the problem on the new owners of the newspaper. I still haven't received a new RW.
M
Mike Walker
Guest
Yes there are some "big gun" AMs that have gone HD, and some that may have lived to regret it, but HD is primarily an FM thing. FM works well. If only the two hadn't been grouped together, so aiming their "scatter-guns" at AM hit FM too! And, to be fair, so that people who are all "Pro-HD" don't include AM, when really they have experience ONLY with FM HD (I'm in that group).
JIBGUY said:
They don't publish one every issue... I think I see one about every month or two.
JIBGUY, the more accurate accounting of HD status is on Barry McLarnon's page. He updates it daily. It includes ownership, whether HD is on day or night, facilities (power/patterns/frequency) and recent status changes for HD operation:
http://topazdesigns.com/iboc/station-list.html
A quick count as of this posting shows: of 236 HD-AM stations on-air, a whopping 50 are from companies who are not investors (stakeholders) in Ibiquity Digital. As of today there appear to be 77 HD-AMs on at night, down from 78 earlier this week.
This represents a remarkably poor showing for a system which has mercilessly hyped, lobbied for, and force-fed to the radio industry, all to a profound indifference on the part of AM listeners.
http://topazdesigns.com/iboc/station-list.html
A quick count as of this posting shows: of 236 HD-AM stations on-air, a whopping 50 are from companies who are not investors (stakeholders) in Ibiquity Digital. As of today there appear to be 77 HD-AMs on at night, down from 78 earlier this week.
This represents a remarkably poor showing for a system which has mercilessly hyped, lobbied for, and force-fed to the radio industry, all to a profound indifference on the part of AM listeners.
Mike Walker said:
AM or FM HD radio does not work well in high density areas, (large top markets) where most listeners and the nation's top rated stations are located. It creates annoying hiss, fidelity reduction, interference, a reduction in receivable analog stations, and has very poor building penetration.
It may seem to provide some slight benefit at your unusual rural location, but I can't understand how you say you get reliable far distant FM HD Radio signals so very far beyond reliable, high fidelity, high quality analog FM. The digital HD radio signals are at much lower power and have proven to be far less robust then analog reception. Doesn't your antenna provide equal gain for both?
Overall, HD Radio does far more harm then good.
L
LinoNYC
Guest
SUPERCASTER said:
AHH, more from ol' Sup's files with a classic bit of deception or should we say fuzzy logic.
To correct, FM iboc does not produce "annoying hiss" AM will if you are not center tuned.
FM iboc does not cause "fidelity reduction" AM iboc does however the degree to which the listener notices depends on the bandwidth of their receiver.
AM yes, FM is approx the same as analog with the bebefit of eliminating multipath, a big problem here in the City.
FM -no, AM it's largely an issue of concern to DX listeners. However there may be some situations where AM iboc will not be practicable due to adjacent channel issues.
-Cut-and-paste hit number one!!
Lino
LinoNYC said:
L
LinoNYC
Guest
To correct, FM iboc does not produce "annoying hiss" AM will if you are not center tuned.
ANSWER- FM HD CAUSES INCREASED NOISE IN ANALOG STEREO FM TRANSMISSION BY INTERFERING WITH THE STEREO SUBCARRIER.
AM HD CAUSES "ANNOYING HISS" ON MOST ANALOG AM RADIOS EVEN WHEN CENTER TUNED. THE VAST TESTAMONY IS POSTED RIGHT HERE ON THIS SITE.
The "vast testamony" of the dozen or-so here that share your viewpoint (and credability) are hardly authoritative.
FM iboc does not cause "fidelity reduction"
ANSWER- FALSE. HD FM PRODUCES AN INCREASE IN ANALOG STEREO NOISE BY INTERFERING WITH THE ANALOG STEREO SUBCARRIER.
That's a new one. The only way your assertion makes sense is if you are working from outdated information concerning the problem of spurious emission caused by the interaction of the COFDM carrier with the baseband analog carrier due to non-linearities in the PA or antenna. Last I read, this had been solved by TX software preconditioning, or, the use of separate antenna/transmitter for the iboc carrier.
AM iboc does however the degree to which the listener notices depends on the bandwidth of their receiver.
ANSWER- THAT IS INCONSISTANT WITH YOUR PREVIOUS STATEMENT ABOUT NO NOISE WHEN CENTER TUNED.
-Got me there..that 5-6 db s/n reduction in a wideband tuner sure blows holes in my statement
AM yes, FM is approx the same as analog with the bebefit of eliminating multipath, a big problem here in the City.
ANSWER- HD FM RADIO'S CLAIMED IMMUNITY TO MULTIPATH HAS BEEN PROVEN FALSE. WHEN THE HD FM SIGNALS ENCOUNTER SIGNAL DEGREDATION OR CANCELLATION FROM MULTIPATH THE HD RADIO RECEPTION JUST SWITCHES BACK TO ANALOG.
-Well, no it doesn't not in my daily experience over the last year of hd radio ownership. Station suc as WNYC-fm are plagued by multipath to the point of being annoying when the set switches to digital the problem goes away. I will say that on very bad days the hd-2 and 3 streams will occaisonally drop out but the use of a rabbit ears seems to have helped.
FM -no,
ANSWER- FALSE. FM HD BLOCKS OR INTERFERES WITH THE "STATIONS BETWEEN THE STATIONS", AND WITH OTHER HD STATIONS WHOSE DIGITAL SIGNALS SHARE THE SAME CHANNELS.
I can't see how that is correct. Almost all of the NYC fm's have implemented iboc and it hasn't affected the reception of surburban stations. Everything I could receive 5 years ago, I still do. Perhaps a wee bit of puffery on your part?
AM it's largely an issue of concern to DX listeners.
ANSWER- ALSO FALSE. HD AM CAUSES LOUD HISS ACCROSS WIDE AREAS OF THE AM DIAL. THE CLOSER YOU ARE TO THE HD AM TRANSMITTERS, THE LOUDER AND WIDER THE ANNOYING DIGITAL HISS.
No worse than back in the days when you guys used to spike the 6-10k region and compress to the point of producing a constant wash of splatter. Isn't that why we got the 10K roll-off?
However there may be some situations where AM iboc will not be practicable due to adjacent channel issues.
ANSWER- MOST SITUATIONS, ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT.
Well, here in market 1 three of the four stations that started 24hr iboc last September are still doing so. The exception is Citadel's WABC which stopped night iboc company wide pending individual-case evaluation. I expect WABC will resume 24hr eventually although for the brain-dead programming they offer they'd better serve society by conserving electricty and going dark altogether. That would be real conservatism.
Lino
ANSWER- FM HD CAUSES INCREASED NOISE IN ANALOG STEREO FM TRANSMISSION BY INTERFERING WITH THE STEREO SUBCARRIER.
AM HD CAUSES "ANNOYING HISS" ON MOST ANALOG AM RADIOS EVEN WHEN CENTER TUNED. THE VAST TESTAMONY IS POSTED RIGHT HERE ON THIS SITE.
The "vast testamony" of the dozen or-so here that share your viewpoint (and credability) are hardly authoritative.
FM iboc does not cause "fidelity reduction"
ANSWER- FALSE. HD FM PRODUCES AN INCREASE IN ANALOG STEREO NOISE BY INTERFERING WITH THE ANALOG STEREO SUBCARRIER.
That's a new one. The only way your assertion makes sense is if you are working from outdated information concerning the problem of spurious emission caused by the interaction of the COFDM carrier with the baseband analog carrier due to non-linearities in the PA or antenna. Last I read, this had been solved by TX software preconditioning, or, the use of separate antenna/transmitter for the iboc carrier.
AM iboc does however the degree to which the listener notices depends on the bandwidth of their receiver.
ANSWER- THAT IS INCONSISTANT WITH YOUR PREVIOUS STATEMENT ABOUT NO NOISE WHEN CENTER TUNED.
-Got me there..that 5-6 db s/n reduction in a wideband tuner sure blows holes in my statement
AM yes, FM is approx the same as analog with the bebefit of eliminating multipath, a big problem here in the City.
ANSWER- HD FM RADIO'S CLAIMED IMMUNITY TO MULTIPATH HAS BEEN PROVEN FALSE. WHEN THE HD FM SIGNALS ENCOUNTER SIGNAL DEGREDATION OR CANCELLATION FROM MULTIPATH THE HD RADIO RECEPTION JUST SWITCHES BACK TO ANALOG.
-Well, no it doesn't not in my daily experience over the last year of hd radio ownership. Station suc as WNYC-fm are plagued by multipath to the point of being annoying when the set switches to digital the problem goes away. I will say that on very bad days the hd-2 and 3 streams will occaisonally drop out but the use of a rabbit ears seems to have helped.
FM -no,
ANSWER- FALSE. FM HD BLOCKS OR INTERFERES WITH THE "STATIONS BETWEEN THE STATIONS", AND WITH OTHER HD STATIONS WHOSE DIGITAL SIGNALS SHARE THE SAME CHANNELS.
I can't see how that is correct. Almost all of the NYC fm's have implemented iboc and it hasn't affected the reception of surburban stations. Everything I could receive 5 years ago, I still do. Perhaps a wee bit of puffery on your part?
AM it's largely an issue of concern to DX listeners.
ANSWER- ALSO FALSE. HD AM CAUSES LOUD HISS ACCROSS WIDE AREAS OF THE AM DIAL. THE CLOSER YOU ARE TO THE HD AM TRANSMITTERS, THE LOUDER AND WIDER THE ANNOYING DIGITAL HISS.
No worse than back in the days when you guys used to spike the 6-10k region and compress to the point of producing a constant wash of splatter. Isn't that why we got the 10K roll-off?
However there may be some situations where AM iboc will not be practicable due to adjacent channel issues.
ANSWER- MOST SITUATIONS, ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT.
Well, here in market 1 three of the four stations that started 24hr iboc last September are still doing so. The exception is Citadel's WABC which stopped night iboc company wide pending individual-case evaluation. I expect WABC will resume 24hr eventually although for the brain-dead programming they offer they'd better serve society by conserving electricty and going dark altogether. That would be real conservatism.
Lino
M
Mike Walker
Guest
PSSSST. Got my new Radio World yesterday (the Nov 21 issue). The HD Radio Scorecard IS in there, and shows some pretty impressive gains. Next lame theory...?
Presumably, Mike, you HD-FM fan you, you're not referring to HD-AM!
According to Barry McLarnon's IBOC station-list, HD-AM stations have actually declined from 236 to 233, with nighttime-operating IBOC AM's that went from 75 briefly to 78 a week ago, and are now back down to 76.
The night figures are essentially unchanged since Citadel turned all their HD-AMs off at night on October 1st.
So 5 percent of AMs are operating IBOC, with 2 percent of those operating at night, many with highly marginal signals like graveyarders.
Of the 233 total, all but 50 of those signals are operated by the groups who invested in iBiquity. So only 50 operators - including noncomms, NPR outlets and university-operated AMs - bought into HD-AM on "technical merit" alone.
According to Barry McLarnon's IBOC station-list, HD-AM stations have actually declined from 236 to 233, with nighttime-operating IBOC AM's that went from 75 briefly to 78 a week ago, and are now back down to 76.
The night figures are essentially unchanged since Citadel turned all their HD-AMs off at night on October 1st.
So 5 percent of AMs are operating IBOC, with 2 percent of those operating at night, many with highly marginal signals like graveyarders.
Of the 233 total, all but 50 of those signals are operated by the groups who invested in iBiquity. So only 50 operators - including noncomms, NPR outlets and university-operated AMs - bought into HD-AM on "technical merit" alone.
M
Mike Walker
Guest
My bad.
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