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noaa VHF radio as the sole EAS primary

T

TomZ

Probably ten years ago to this date I read somewhere that NOAA's weather radio was/is the best source for emergency information and I remember thinking that most radio manufacturers could pull this stunt for about 5 buck per.

I don't know much about stuff; but I'd bet one whole US Dollar that the best route to inform the public is somewhere near 162 mHz.
 
I couldn't agree more! The NOAA system is tested very regularly with weather alerts so it stands to reason that most broadcasters have working equipment set to proper levels. Plus, many people have stand alone weather radios that might carry the message. Seems like a no-brainer huh?
 
No.

First off, there are too many coverage gaps with NOAA weather radio-and many of the sites have no back up power. Second, most of the sites are fed by 3 kHz telco loops-some with no isolation transformers (which is why you hear hum on many NOAA stations).

Finally, most of the NOAA gear is now over 20 years old and is of vaccuum tube vintage. Many of the sites are also maintained by 'two way' technicians.

What makes a whole lot more sense is a satellite/IP system with longwave running DRM for backup. The govt. could recycle some of the dormant Loran C sites and cover the entire USA with a decent groundwave signal 24 hours from around a dozen LF transmitters.
 
Yes and No.

NWS radio works reasonably well, but it has coverage and audio quality problems.

What is needed is a new operating band and more channels to eliminate both problems.
 
LA_Guy said:
No.

First off, there are too many coverage gaps with NOAA weather radio-and many of the sites have no back up power. Second, most of the sites are fed by 3 kHz telco loops-some with no isolation transformers (which is why you hear hum on many NOAA stations).

Finally, most of the NOAA gear is now over 20 years old and is of vaccuum tube vintage. Many of the sites are also maintained by 'two way' technicians.

What makes a whole lot more sense is a satellite/IP system with longwave running DRM for backup. The govt. could recycle some of the dormant Loran C sites and cover the entire USA with a decent groundwave signal 24 hours from around a dozen LF transmitters.
Click to expand...
Agreed, the NWS transmitter for Orange County,California is only 15 air miles from me and yet with my Midland WR-120 SAME receiver I have only a couple sweet spots in my house that I can place it in.
 
So how about beefing up NWS? It wouldn't be that hard or that expensive to fill in the gaps. VHF FM is pretty reliable. It is also fairly cheap. The current daisy chain of commercial broadcast stations is an accident waiting for a place to happen. I think today's National Test verified that.

Let's face it: EAS is a well intended volunteer operated network. This is never going to get better until somebody is actually paid to make it work, and make it work well. It isn't a question of technology. That's the easy part. Getting everybody on the same page is the hard part. Simple is good, and EAS should be simple.
 
LA_Guy said:
No.

First off, there are too many coverage gaps with NOAA weather radio-and many of the sites have no back up power. Second, most of the sites are fed by 3 kHz telco loops-some with no isolation transformers (which is why you hear hum on many NOAA stations).

Finally, most of the NOAA gear is now over 20 years old and is of vaccuum tube vintage. Many of the sites are also maintained by 'two way' technicians.

What makes a whole lot more sense is a satellite/IP system with longwave running DRM for backup. The govt. could recycle some of the dormant Loran C sites and cover the entire USA with a decent groundwave signal 24 hours from around a dozen LF transmitters.
Click to expand...

Putting our eggs into the Satellite basket is asking for disaster. Satellites are the most vulnerable communications system ever devised. Aside from the sunspot issues and solar flares there is the plain fact that an enemy wanting to disrupt communications could shoot them down. Then there is the fact that they are bundles of complex electronics sent off to orbit the planet with no way to make repairs if something breaks.

Here is a real workable idea. Hard wired copper lines spanning the nation. Worked real good back in the good old days of network radio and television. The using other system such as VHF radio and LF radio is just redundancy and a fail safe system of any flavor includes redundant elements.
 
TomT said:
Yes and No.

NWS radio works reasonably well, but it has coverage and audio quality problems.

What is needed is a new operating band and more channels to eliminate both problems.
Click to expand...

New operating band, eh?

I take it you haven't heard that the plan submitted to provide 1st responders with more broadband also calls for broadcasters relinquishing their 450-455 RPU bands a few years down the road? Kiss any thought of "new operating bands" goodbye. Congress has discovered the joys of spectrum auctions (read= revenue enhancements)
 
nmoore6676 said:
LA_Guy said:
No.

First off, there are too many coverage gaps with NOAA weather radio-and many of the sites have no back up power. Second, most of the sites are fed by 3 kHz telco loops-some with no isolation transformers (which is why you hear hum on many NOAA stations).

Finally, most of the NOAA gear is now over 20 years old and is of vaccuum tube vintage. Many of the sites are also maintained by 'two way' technicians.

What makes a whole lot more sense is a satellite/IP system with longwave running DRM for backup. The govt. could recycle some of the dormant Loran C sites and cover the entire USA with a decent groundwave signal 24 hours from around a dozen LF transmitters.
Click to expand...



Here is a real workable idea. Hard wired copper lines spanning the nation. Worked real good back in the good old days of network radio and television. The using other system such as VHF radio and LF radio is just redundancy and a fail safe system of any flavor includes redundant elements.
Click to expand...

I take it no one told you the "1st mile" of this National test was phone couplers to the PEP stations? Or did you thing those who got the "pristene" 300-3K audio bandwidth (if they got any at all) did it with equalizers?
 
I wonder if the GPS satellites have the ability for a digital audio channel? There are lots of those satellites. It would be tough to shoot them all down.
Perhaps there is no really good solution other than copper telco loops to each station. Much like the copper radio networks of yesteryear.
Still ... neither is a good solution for local/regional EAS alerts.
I agree that NWS would be a poor choice. Far too many gaps in coverage and very poor audio quality.
 
I posted this in another thread, but reposting here:

I'm wondering what the feasibility of using the cellular network as the PEP would be? It's a robust, nationwide network and the sites are usually build with redundancy and often backup generators or batteries. You could have a "cellular" receiver and every broadcast station would just monitor the cellular network. That would get rid of the daisy chain system and help with audio problems. Thoughts?
 
Here's my idea on all of this. It's sort of a combination of what everyone has said so far. How about we get the DOD to give up a sliver of BW on one of their hardened sats and put some receivers at PEPs and the NWS sites. The NWS guys don't have a direct link to anywhere other than internet. I'd park the dishes right at their tower bypassing the phone line. The existing telephone line linkup to current PEPs probably should be kept, but the audio to them should be delayed by a minute or so to make sure that the audio from NWS makes it to stations first normally. In the event the NWS audio doesn't get there, the Endecs would get the telco loop version from the PEP. Normally it would be simply ignored, even by the PEPs. I like the idea of Loran channels being a backup. The PEPs should get that signal also, delayed. Using the WWV signals for EAS might also be a good idea. Let's make sure its delayed even slightly more to ensure other paths are exausted before international shortwave makes it to our air as a last resort. FEMA needs to engage some people that are able to think this stuff out and put useful layers to the system that will ensure something gets out intelligable.
 
And, the biggest question I have in all of this is WHERE ARE OUR FURRY FRIENDS AT THE CELL PHONE CARRIERS IN ALL OF THIS "PARTNERSHIP"? Doesn't the great and mighty "leader" of this country think that the sun rises and sets in the a** of celluar carriers and data providers? Shouldn't they be forced to send a small little text message to each and every handset in America during these tests? Why are they exempt?
 
The cellphone boys just want to steal all of our TV spectrum, and can't be bothered to 'activate' an FM tuner in cellphones. Also, the Verizon system here goes into overload anytime there is a tornado warning, and EVEN TEXT messages are delayed up to 90 minutes! Voice is useless. Cell is built as cheap as possible designed to serve a maximum of 10% of subscribers; they are not broadcasters by any means. Broadcasting is so much more spectrum efficient, yet they want to steal our spectrum. Not an option.
NWR are in every school in our state; they are in well over 60% of the homes in our state. Making NWR work BETTER is a great idea. Backup links and more backup links and backup power is the key.
 
The National Weather Service will be doing a big upgrade to NOAA Weather Radio nationwide in the next year or so as part of the Weather Radio Improvement Program. Satellite and/or microwave transmission paths from the NWS offices to the NWR broadcast tower are likely to join (or replace) the telco lines.

Most NWR sites have moved past tube transmitters to solid state units and most sites have a primary and backup transmitter pair. Many also have a backup generator. The upgrade to newer computers is also a big benefit.

Overall, I'd say this will greatly improve reliability of the system with the benefits of VHF radio and use of current receivers for the public.
 
How about just fixing NWS? It almost works. VHF radio is cheap and very reliable. Is is not subject to "rain fade" which any satellite solution would have. With thousands of transmitter sites, it would be hard to completely disable. It is actually manned by people who are paid to make sure it works. Relying on a daisy chain of volunteer operators like EAS currently has, is asking for failure.
 
Giving those that know emergency radio, NWS, a decent budget and athority to make a national system WORK would be the best and cheapest option to get things working right. It would be an almost instant success.
 
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