Non-Comm's airing commercials

[butlerguy03]

I know there is a "nostalgia" rule or something dealing with commercials that can be aired on public airwaves as long as the station does not recieve compensation to do so. Would this include network programming?

Example: Network Indiana is a news outlet run by Emmis Communications and supplies many stations accross the state with news, sports, special updates and events. However, every news we run we currently edit out the 1 minute of commercials (with permission, of course). We don't get payed for those ads and we still pay a subscription...can we air it without edit? This would open up a lot of doors with NI and other outlets if it is OK. However, if it is a gray area, we will probably stay away.

Thanks, any comments appreciated.

 

[butlerguy03]

This is the first time I have ever had this request, a woman from a local shop wants to voice her own underwriting. If she does it, can she identify herself and use first person?

I will admit I am a commercial radio person. We run this station like a commercial music radio station (for education of students) and now the businesses are coming to us because of the great sound!

 

[PTBoardOp94]

No, this would not include network programming.

Having said that, if you could come to an agreement with Emmis, you might be able to clear some Network Indiana ads and reduce your fee. Some of them, like the Indiana Tobacco Prevention Association campaign that has been running recently are non-comm friendly. The Auto Owners Insurance campaign also is non-comm friendly as far as I know (although I've not parsed the scripts word-for-word). However, I don't think the "Captel Telephone" ads would be permissible.

As far as underwriters voicing their own spots, this is fine, although I don't think I've ever heard it done. The potential problem is in the script, not the production. A script like this should be fine:
"Hi, I'm Donna Lewis of Lewis Bakery on Allisonville Road. We bake fresh donuts, rolls, and pies every morning at Lewis Bakery. We buy organic eggs from Johnson county farmers, and flour from the Co-op in Frankfort. For organic baked goods, consider seeing me at Lewis Bakery, 86th and Allisonville, next to the BMV."
No claims (Top-selling, yadda), no direct call to action. Note I said 'next to the BMV' and not 'next to Best Buy' because Best Buy is a commercial entity and the BMV is not.

I think the art of creating non-commercial copy is fun. Partly because you really are playing hard and fast with the rules, because there is a lot of grey area, which the Commission acknowledges. If I were really concerned about the the commission (say, there had been a complaint recently about my station's underwriting announcements), I'd play it a little more conservative.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Back to the Auto-Owners thing: I don't know why I didn't realize earlier that the "Auto Owners: The No Problem People" jingle would be OK. It wouldn't.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

This is an interesting topic,
this is an important topic,
this is a critical topic.

A decade ago when the pressure was on from Congress for the NPR crowd (and the PBS group) to get prepared for the reduction of Federal funding, there was apparently a lot of conversation between the PBS "industry" and the Feds over "just how aggressive can we get?"

We saw the NPR organization and a number of the local stations become very aggressive at selling music and other revenue generating changes in how they operate.

For those who operate truly local and truly independent NCE stations and now the LPFM stations, we see a lot of small, small, small budge operations who cannot attend seminars on the subject, and don't have budget to pay communications attorneys for in-depth advice on these topics.

It was interesting when our friend and conversation particiaptant "CHUCK" down in Texas acquired a commercial channel in his community, moved his programming from the LPFM to the commercial channel and then came up with a plan for a new local NFP entity to continue the LPFM channel, he reported after just a few weeks that some of his local "advertisers" when advised they could now use 'real' copy and commercials said: "What we are doing is working just fine, No need to change the copy."

I hope chuck will chime in on this topic and share with us how his clients have dealt with the transition from endorsements to full-blown-commercials now that some time has passed.

My guess is (and it is ONLY a guess) that the FCC through the years has become a bit more lenient on what passes for acceptable copy in the non-commercial broadcaster world. But I would not want to be the guy who found out the hard way that their lenience does have limits.

I think sponsor-voiced announcements are very desirable in small-station community radio, non-commercial or commercial station.

 

[techie2]

As far as underwriters voicing their own spots, this is fine, although I don't think I've ever heard it done. The potential problem is in the script, not the production. A script like this should be fine:
"Hi, I'm Donna Lewis of Lewis Bakery on Allisonville Road. We bake fresh donuts, rolls, and pies every morning at Lewis Bakery. We buy organic eggs from Johnson county farmers, and flour from the Co-op in Frankfort. For organic baked goods, consider seeing me at Lewis Bakery, 86th and Allisonville, next to the BMV."
No claims (Top-selling, yadda), no direct call to action. Note I said 'next to the BMV' and not 'next to Best Buy' because Best Buy is a commercial entity and the BMV is not.

I'd stay away from the phrase "consider seeing me at Lewis Bakery" because it could be construed as a call to action.

 

[aaronread]

This is the first time I have ever had this request, a woman from a local shop wants to voice her own underwriting. If she does it, can she identify herself and use first person?

Yes. Sponsor-voiced underwriting is perfectly allowable. However, many public radio outlets choose not to allow it by their own policy. Generally speaking I agree with that policy; it opens the door to a lot of headaches over proper cadence, speech patterns, pronunciations, and maintaining a consistent "sound" to your station. We have some sponsor-voiced spots on WEOS but they're all by people we worked extensively with on their reads, and most were huge pubradio fans to begin with. Even so, we're in the process of phasing them out.

Crafting legal underwriting scripts is as much an art as it is a science. If you want to get into it, I suggest you read up extensively at the FCC's site on the issue (including all the links at the bottom) [url]http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/nature.html[/url] and also listen a lot to your local NPR affiliate to get a feel for what the national spots (mostly voiced in Frank Tavares' distinctively neutral voice) say in their scripts.

For reference, here are the key tenets:

• The biggest and most vague is that underwriting cannot be promotional, merely informative. Exactly what this means is roundly up for debate, but a good place to start is to avoid superlatives at all costs. Also remember that saying something factual is still considered promotional if it's to distinguish the sponsor from other sponsors in the same field and imply that the sponsor is better. For example, a grocery store that says its been in business for 30 years is to imply that its longevity makes it better than other grocery stores. Thus, it is considered promotional.
  
• If no consideration is involved, it's not underwriting and thus exempt from these rules. However, consideration can take many, many forms other than money. This is why it's virtually impossible for a non-comm station to broadcast live from a for-profit venue like a restaurant, nightclub or music hall.
• If the organization involved is a non-profit, then the underwriting rules do not apply. However, as a station is it unwise to have different rules for non-profits and for-profits...it's confusing to your listeners and to your sponsors.
• The FCC has stated, in a roundabout way, that they don't see how an underwriting spot that's longer than 30 seconds could not be promotional. So your spots must be less than 30 seconds.
• In underwriting, there can never be a call to action. This is the biggie, and leads to the most "verbal gymnastics". This rule is why you hear the phrase "more info at" instead of "call this number" or "visit us online at".
• In underwriting, there cannot be any inducement to buy, sell or lease. This means no information about sales/discounts, special offers, free giveaways, etc.
• In underwriting, there can never be any mention of prices. This includes interest rates, savings, value or related info to price.

One big issue with underwriting is slogans. The prime example is "Get Met, It Pays". That's clearly a call to action, but it's also a long-time identifying slogan for Met Life insurance. The FCC has been somewhat unclear on this - they've nailed people for violating the rules in situations like this, but a lot of stations have also done it for years and not been hassled. YMMV.

Oh, and this should be obvious, but IANAL. Use any info I provide at your own risk!

 

[DudeFan]

Of course, all bets are off for non-profit entities, you do not have underwriting restrictions because they only apply to for-profit enterprises. Thus, you can say whatever you want for many hospitals, some member-owned insurance companies (there are still a few that operate and "mutual" member-owned non-profits, and all credit unions, and a slew of community groups.

For guidance and creative ideas, also watch many PBS programs. Although it might be edgy, it would seem that you could do with words what PBS does visually with its underwriting credits. Again, your mileage my vary.

 

[aaronread]

For guidance and creative ideas, also watch many PBS programs.

To each their own, but I would hesitant about using PBS as a guide here. There's been a lot more cases of PBS TV stations being fined for airing underwriting that was too commercial than cases of NPR radio stations being fined for the same thing. Personally I use NPR as a guide, and then I usually throttle it back somewhat from what they do.

 

[butlerguy03]

Of course, all bets are off for non-profit entities, you do not have underwriting restrictions because they only apply to for-profit enterprises. Thus, you can say whatever you want for many hospitals, some member-owned insurance companies (there are still a few that operate and "mutual" member-owned non-profits, and all credit unions, and a slew of community groups.

aaronread...what's your thought on airing whatever we want with Credit Unions and Mutual Companies? This may be a great source of income for the station with several CU's around. We already include prices, etc. for school events and community organization events.

I know the basics of underwriting rules, and would prefer to stay away from the gray area as much as possible, so we decided against opening up any sort of idea that these companies can voice their own sponsor spot. We are doing 30-second spots, and find it hard to fill that time sometimes without the BUY BUY BUY language.

Would I be right to ask for a re-write when the spot had language "leading community supporter"? I asked the student who wrote it how they would prove to the FCC that the company was a "leading" supporter. That seemed qualitative. As for the script written near the beginning of this thread, wouldn't "fresh" be qualitative...it assumes others are not as "fresh."

Thank you for the info on network spots, we have never allowed them and will continue to take them out.

One final question, do you believe it is important to add the "WEEM would like to thank corporate underwriters such as XYZ Corp.", then begin the spot?

I will admit that as I look around online, it seems a lot of stations either 1) follow NPR guidelines or 2) confuse NPR guidelines with FCC rulings.

 

[amfmxm]

Please allow me to enter a friendly observation regarding aaronread's cautionary tales and ultra-safe approach to "enhanced underwriting." During my time with NPR and as a corporate support manager with a large-market PBS/NPR member TV-FM, we called that approach "The Sales Prevention Unit."

Too many public broadcasting organizations--including PBS & NPR--fear that viewers/listeners will cease viewing/listening, or--worse yet--drop their membership, if their stations are perceived as being "commercial." Reams, nay piles, of internal research show that such a fear is complete BS. People do not view-or-listen because it's commercial-free. They view-or-listen because they like the content.

The rules don't apply to non-profits. A huge potential category is that of colleges and universities, the vast majority of which are NP (exceptions: U. of Phoenix, De Vry, etc.) and who spend shitloads of money in commercial broadcasting. Public stations can use the exact same ads (the EXACT SAME ADS) with no editing. Instead, too many underwriting departments tell the marketing departments at Flagship U. (or their ad agencies) that they CAN'T use the same copy and must craft special, value-neutral creative for use ONLY on their special public station.

As a result, they don't get the buy or they get a fraction of what they should get.

Congress and the FCC provided "enhanced underwriting" to ENCOURAGE public broadcasting to find support in the "private sector" so they wouldn't have to rely on tax dollars. Too many people in public broadcasting still think advertising is the Devil's work and don't want to sully their dainty hands with dirty lucre.

They would rather starve. Or so it seems...

 

[amfmxm]

More huge potential non-profit categories... where the underwriting restrictions don't apply...

State/regional/local convention & visitors bureaus, symphony orchestras, opera organizations, community theatre, festivals, concerts presented by civic organizations, state/county/municipal governments, school districts, (most) hospitals, clinics, chambers of commerce, (many) nursing homes... public TV stations (for radio underwriting)... public radio stations (for TV underwriting)...

No restrictions. Just get a dub from the commercial station. It's legal.

Get out of the building and make some sales calls. Make some money and drop some pledge breaks.

 

[butlerguy03]

The rules don't apply to non-profits. A huge potential category is that of colleges and universities

Thanks for the idea...we already had a meeting set up with Ivy Tech Community College here in Indiana...great news to tell them!

 

[aaronread]

I'll take all the filthy lucre I can get my hands on, thank you very much.

No, what I'm afraid of is, surprise surprise, getting an NAL from the FCC. Did you see today's RadioINK headlines about KUFW? And there's plenty of other examples cited at www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/fmq.html

And for that matter, listeners DO care and DO notice when you play underwriting that sounds too commercial. Ours sure let us know the moment they think we've gone too far. Similarly, our for-profit underwriters would notice if I suddenly "broke all the rules" (from their perspective) for our non-profit underwriters...and they'd be mad, and they'd probably stop underwriting with us.

 

[amfmxm]

The rules don't apply to non-profits. A huge potential category is that of colleges and universities

Thanks for the idea...we already had a meeting set up with Ivy Tech Community College here in Indiana...great news to tell them!

Ivy Tech--a public system of community technical colleges in Indiana--is a perfect example.

Butlerguy03 (hey, how 'bout dem Dogs!) if you're in-or-near India-no-place, other great expamples are IUPUI, IU-Bloomington, PU-West Lafayette and BU itself, not to mention Ball State, ISU, Wabash and the like. Be extremely aware that in all of these colleges & universities there are dozens/hundreds of SEPARATE budgets to be pursued--from Continuing Ed to atletics... individual sports within athletics... theatre & music departments (for plays & concerts)... various public lectures & forums... grad schools... specific programs in grad schools--rarely is this stuff funneled through their main marketing department. Lot of provincialism and turf wars keep the departments from even speaking to each other.

But the money all spends the same.

 

[techie2]

More huge potential non-profit categories... where the underwriting restrictions don't apply...

State/regional/local convention & visitors bureaus, symphony orchestras, opera organizations, community theatre, festivals, concerts presented by civic organizations, state/county/municipal governments, school districts, (most) hospitals, clinics, chambers of commerce, (many) nursing homes... public TV stations (for radio underwriting)... public radio stations (for TV underwriting)...

No restrictions. Just get a dub from the commercial station. It's legal.

Get out of the building and make some sales calls. Make some money and drop some pledge breaks.

We have run commercial-style dubs on a non-comm in two cases -- one for a concert venue that is owned by a municipal gov't, and one for the local air show because the organization that runs it is a registered non-profit. In each case, the ticket prices were edited out and the phrase "tickets on sale now" was used without naming any business locations.

These spots only ran for a few weeks in each case. I wouldn't run them heavily or long-term, just because the production values of the spots make them stand out relative to the standard underwriting spot, and because of the business underwriters wondering why they can't say the same things.

We will do remotes at church or community festivals or events that are completely free to enter and open to the public and put on by a non-profit. However, the way I read the rules there is no way to do any sort of remotes at a business location, period. We ran into that with a high school sports show that had been at a restaurant as a webcast-only show. Despite the fact it was a long-form talk show and not a promotion for the business, there were just too many risks that it would look like an enticement to come to the location and buy food, and too many ways that someone could slip in talking and make a call to action.

 

[amfmxm]

I'll take all the filthy lucre I can get my hands on, thank you very much.

No, what I'm afraid of is, surprise surprise, getting an NAL from the FCC. Did you see today's RadioINK headlines about KUFW? And there's plenty of other examples cited at www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/fmq.html

And for that matter, listeners DO care and DO notice when you play underwriting that sounds too commercial. Ours sure let us know the moment they think we've gone too far. Similarly, our for-profit underwriters would notice if I suddenly "broke all the rules" (from their perspective) for our non-profit underwriters...and they'd be mad, and they'd probably stop underwriting with us.

C'mon, man. No one will ever confuse Mario's Auto Sales or Big Brand Tire (KUFW's cited clients) for California State University, Fresno. Yes, for-profit clients get the restricted language. Can't be hollering about this week's big sale! But if it's Fresno State, let 'er roll.

It is important that underwriting reps actually discuss these legalities with their clients--and, yes, explain to your for-profit clients why they will sometimes hear "commercials" airing for non-profit underwriters. Explain that Congress set it up this way, intentionally, to be beneficial for your public/NCE radio-or-TV station and to be beneficial for other non-profits, whose mission is likewise to serve the community.

Follow the letter of the law, but recognize what the law gives you--not just what it takes away. And be comfortable and confident in discussing these ideas with all of your supporters, members as well as corporate contributors.

As for the sanctity of non-commercialism, those piles of public broadcasting research show that the vast majority of viewers/listeners/members can't tell the difference between a promo and a commercial... watch much more commercial TV than public TV... divide their radio listening between NCE and commercial radio stations (yes, we SHARE these pristine listeners with the commercial Heathens)... and generally don't give the "commercial-versus-non-commercial" issue any significant thought.

Are there VOCAL exceptions--the ones who actually write or call to bitch about it? Sure. And like everywhere else in life, the tiny vocal minority--the loud activists--will get your attention. You just have to be careful to pat them on the head and make them go away... and ignore them.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Great discussion, gang.

If you haven't noticed, the world is rapidly changing all around us. I went back to the Ozarks for a high school class reunion last week. We have almost no family there anymore so we had some time to just retrace steps from many years ago. And we had in our hands this beautiful book published about an industry that existed there from about 1920 to 1960 that shaped the town. And we had to face the fact, the town no longer has any "shape". Just a bunch of people slogging it out.

The FCC rules on non-comms have some age on them. They were written in response to another era and many of us would argue that they do not fit today's circumstances, but it is obvious that the current operators/participants in the non-comm world of broadcasting do not speak in one voice when it comes to proposing what would be appropriate rules for today.

Early in my broadcasting years I worked for Jerrell Shepherd in Missouri. In some ways he re-created the world of small market commercial broadcasting. (He wasn't alone. He "networked" with other operators who were also developing the art form in their communities.) How many of you remember the old license renewal forms from the 1960s: "How many Public Service Announcements will you broadcast?" With fear and trembling licensees took a deep breath and put some number in there, much like someone who does not understand the theology of the church deciding how much money they will put in the offering plate or box.

With great delight, with a big chip on his shoulder, Jerrell Shepherd routinely put a big ZERO in the space on the renewal form. Here is my memory of how he explained it to me: "Opening the mail, getting a PSA script from the Cancer Society in NYC, and putting this bland do-gooder appeal on the air ten times a week did NOTHING useful for his community. But if his town had a local group that was affiliated with the national organization, and they were having a meeting or a fund-raising bake sale, and his news director could interview you about the event and encourage (via the news story) people to participate, THAT WAS TRULY A PUBLIC SERVICE to the community by the radio station. Philosophically he had his bags packed. He was prepared to travel to Washington any time the FCC wanted to hear his story. I think he was looking forward to "jamming it down their throat" just how useless and lame the whole PSA mechanism of that era was.

I had hoped by now they would have opened up a window for LPFMs. I would love to help my community establish a world class example of community broadcasting. And I would love to have enough of my own skin in the operation that I would have the freedom to risk the license by daring to be equally as bold (chip on the shoulder and all) as Jerrell Shepherd was back then. My station along with others who agree with the concept would end up re-shaping public policy on how funding flows into LPFMs and NCEs.

This is a time when some risk-takers need to step up and form a new age of non-comm radio.

Alas. Talk is cheap when you are sitting here on the sidelines with nothing but a keyboard and an Internet connection. ;D

 

[TheBigA]

The FCC rules on non-comms have some age on them. They were written in response to another era and many of us would argue that they do not fit today's circumstances,

Well, maybe. I spent a few years in the non-comm world. Did my grad school thesis on public broadcasting. Here's my view: The government LOVES non-commercial radio. It does the kind of radio it wishes the commercial companies would run. Lots of public service, lots of news, close ties to the community, all that wonderful stuff. But at the same time, they pass laws that hamstring the non-com stations from operating in a competitive way. Call it a love-hate relationship. Maybe there's some guilt involved too, since there is the issue of government funding, at the local and federal level. The feds can't own broadcasting stations in the US, but states and cities can. But only the feds can regulate broadcasting. So it's a complicated world.

So now we have this situation where some states are looking to sell their broadcasting assets, because of tax revenue shortfalls and other problems. So now there are opportunities for non-profits to buy broadcasting operations from states or universities. These non-government entities are more likely to organize, and more likely to push the funding envelope, as it were. Maybe challenge the status quo. At the same time, maybe kick some corporate industry ass along the way. Who knows, maybe the sleeping dog is about to be kicked. Then again, maybe not.

 

[TheBigA]

More huge potential non-profit categories... where the underwriting restrictions don't apply...

Hmmm...those are the kinds of folks who came to us as fellow non-coms, and asked for freebies. We're all in the same boat. Please promote our poetry reading with free publicity. A lot of colleges are crying about endowments that have collapsed, or state funding that has been cut. But hey, no reason not to try. It just wasn't a big area for us. The only way it worked was when we did co-op grant applications, using our airwaves to further the mission of the local theater group. And we did a lot of content sharing with the big powerful PBS station. But they never spent money on us.