Non-Hits you couldn't live without

[TheBigA]

I've been referring to stations that have a deep playlist within a given genre,

Know of any that are getting great ratings?

 

[hornet61]

At some point, the stations on the net will become just like FM. It's inevitable.

That'll never happen. For one thing, the barriers to entry are so small on the net that there will always be the potential for someone starting a new station. For another, any station one can only listen to on a computer will never catch on the way a station one can listen to in one's car will. When I'm in my car, my only choices for entertainment while driving is terrestrial radio, satellite radio, or my own collection of songs. I bought an FM adapter that plugs into my cigarette lighter and lets me connect either my MP3 player or a simple thumb drive full of MP3's and plays them on an empty FM frequency. It cost me less than $6 from a vendor on eBay.

When I'm at home, my options open up to include television, the internet, my own CD player, and even reading a book! I've attempted to listen to various internet radio stations, but usually I end up turning them off and just loading my own choice of songs into the media player. With that kind of competition, internet stations are, I believe, doomed to be nothing but "vanity" operations done by radio wannabes.

The guy I am helping on live 365.com is a two time National Programmer of the year, currently on the Hit parade hall of fame nominating Commitee, once head of bartell radio group, once drew the largest share ever in the LA market, hardly a wannabe. He is relaunching on Live.365 after being dormant for 8 months his first foray into live 365.com out of 10,000 stations advertised on 365 he went to Number 82 in 16 months and #2 within Genre in the same period. I am in awe of this guy sitting side by side watching him program.

 

[Talk_Dude]

I've been referring to stations that have a deep playlist within a given genre,

Know of any that are getting great ratings?

I don't know of any that are on the air. I'm not aware of a single station that plays, for example, only classic rock but with a very deep playlist. They might exist, but I can't pick them up on my radio.

 

[Tom Wells]

Curious as to why classic rock into Rufus' "Tell Me Something Good" seems so wrong.

Sounded fine on Top 40 in the day. My favorite aspect of the old Top 40 was having
so many types of music included. By today's standards they were all trainwrecks back then!

 

[Talk_Dude]

Curious as to why classic rock into Rufus' "Tell Me Something Good" seems so wrong.

Sounded fine on Top 40 in the day. My favorite aspect of the old Top 40 was having
so many types of music included. By today's standards they were all trainwrecks back then!

No, it didn't sound "fine" on Top 40. That's why so many of us switched over to AOR on FM as soon as it became available. We wanted to get away from train wreck segues like that. But then, most of the people I associated with back in the day were either musicians or seriously into music, not just teenyboppers.

Top 40, trainwreck radio was what one listened to in junior high, it was something one outgrew when one got a drivers license.

 

[Tom Wells]

No, it didn't sound "fine" on Top 40.

Top 40, trainwreck radio was what one listened to in junior high, it was something one outgrew when one got a drivers license.

But, but....that's the equivalent of installing musical blinders!
I love my obscure 20's, etc, etc, but find I like some brand new music as well.
What's wrong with liking some of ALL kinds of music?

Nothing sounds better than Benny Goodman into the Ramones or vice versa.
The radio I have most enjoyed in my life has almost always consisted of elegant trainwrecks.


The earliest AOR stations were also tranwrecks. I listened to TRIAD on WLS FM 'way back, and it was like hanging out with
a room full of hippies. It was good, but it was still trainwrecksville by modern standards.

 

[Talk_Dude]

No, it didn't sound "fine" on Top 40.

Top 40, trainwreck radio was what one listened to in junior high, it was something one outgrew when one got a drivers license.

But, but....that's the equivalent of installing musical blinders!
I love my obscure 20's, etc, etc, but find I like some brand new music as well.
What's wrong with liking some of ALL kinds of music?

Nothing sounds better than Benny Goodman into the Ramones or vice versa.
The radio I have most enjoyed in my life has almost always consisted of elegant trainwrecks.


The earliest AOR stations were also tranwrecks. I listened to TRIAD on WLS FM 'way back, and it was like hanging out with
a room full of hippies. It was good, but it was still trainwrecksville by modern standards.

I do like all kinds of music. What makes you think I don't? If I'm in the mood for Benny Goodman, then that's the kind of music I'm in the mood for and that's what I listen to. When I'm in the mood for punk rock, then that's what I listen to.

It's a lot like the flavors of food. When I'm eating dinner, I don't put chocolate sauce on sauerkraut. When I'm eating dessert, I don't put oil and vinegar on my ice cream. That's not to say that I don't like chocolate sauce or oil & vinegar dressings. It's just that some things go together and some things don't.

Maybe the problem is that I don't have the attention span of sponge.

 

[FRR]

A couple of non hits that I couldn't do without

Billy Sunshine - Evie Sands
Autumn - The Thomas Group
Crying Over You - Lonnie Mack
Springfield Plane - Kenny O'Dell
Dusty - Ragdolls

And the greatest tune of all;
A Stop Along the Way - Timothy Carr

 

[oldies76]

No, it didn't sound "fine" on Top 40.

Yes it did.....that's what was available in the day, until things improved. And when it did, I still listened to TOP 40 music on FM, so what's the difference??

That's why so many of us switched over to AOR on FM as soon as it became available.

AOR in the 70's?? Maybe. Top 40 radio, AM or FM ruled the airwaves then.

Top 40, trainwreck radio was what one listened to in junior high, it was something one outgrew when one got a drivers license.

Some did, most didn't. Or they had 8 track players in their cars and listened to albums of their favorite TOP 40 artists.

 

[Talk_Dude]

That's why so many of us switched over to AOR on FM as soon as it became available.

AOR in the 70's?? Maybe. Top 40 radio, AM or FM ruled the airwaves then.

I don't much care what it was called then. I'm talking about back in the late 1960's when self-described "underground" radio started to be heard on FM. I'm specifically referring to what was in my home town, Pittsburgh, on WAMO-FM when Ken Reeth (and Porky Chedwick, of all people!) started playing album cuts. This included the album versions of songs like "Light My Fire" instead of the truncated, Top 40 versions. It also included cuts off of albums that contained Top 40 hits other than the one song the suits at the record label pushed. So, it was rock music oriented towards album cuts. If that ain't "Album Oriented Rock", then what is?

Top 40, trainwreck radio was what one listened to in junior high, it was something one outgrew when one got a drivers license.

Some did, most didn't. Or they had 8 track players in their cars and listened to albums of their favorite TOP 40 artists.

The albums of their favorite artists might have included Top 40 hits. Led Zeppelin had hits on the Top 40, consisting of their album cuts chopped into itty-bitty pieces to allow more time to sell pimple cream. But I wouldn't call Led Zeppelin a "Top 40" act. And, when one listened to an entire album, one didn't have to sit through crap like Vickie Carr wailing "It Must Be Him" or Mike Douglas singing about the men in his little girl's life, or Sammy Davis, Jr. pretending he was hip singing about "The Candy Man". That was "Trainwreck Radio". It sucked. It sucked then, and it sucks now. All it's good for is innocuous background music. It's the kind of crap you put on the radio at work and turn the volume down so it's just loud enough to mask the drone of work and peoples' conversations. It's the kind of crap they play in grocery stores and on elevators.

Sure, that crap might get good ratings. People leave it on as background noise and ignore it. (They also ignore the commercials as well, but don't tell the advertisers.) The thing is, no ratings service can manage to measure the difference between a radio that's barely on as background noise, and a radio that someone is actually listening to. Sure, Top 40 got the numbers. That's because most people used the radio as a "white noise" generator to have on in the background. Top 40 is an excellent format to put on the radio and ignore.

 

[oldies76]

The albums of their favorite artists might have included Top 40 hits. Led Zeppelin had hits on the Top 40, consisting of their album cuts chopped into itty-bitty pieces to allow more time to sell pimple cream. But I wouldn't call Led Zeppelin a "Top 40" act. And, when one listened to an entire album, one didn't have to sit through crap like Vickie Carr wailing "It Must Be Him" or Mike Douglas singing about the men in his little girl's life, or Sammy Davis, Jr. pretending he was hip singing about "The Candy Man". That was "Trainwreck Radio". It sucked. It sucked then, and it sucks now. All it's good for is innocuous background music. It's the kind of crap you put on the radio at work and turn the volume down so it's just loud enough to mask the drone of work and peoples' conversations. It's the kind of crap they play in grocery stores and on elevators.

Who says the "Candy Man" or Vicki Carr music is ever played in elevators or in stores, never heard it once in a location outside radio. You're giving TOP 40 a bad rap. Sure, there are the cheesy songs, but EVERY genre has those, including AOR. Then you have the power songs, the overplayed power songs that you still hear today. AND THEN, you have all the songs in between the two, the thousands of OTHER songs that are just ignored today, but are just wonderful and very memorable to hear. Call it what you want, it isn't crap! I could call "Bohemian Rhapsody" and "Boys of Summer" crap, because I hear it almost every day on some station. We get sick and tired of such small and very selective songs on the radio today, that it becomes "crap" after hearing it 100 times.

Most people remember their younger years by the music they heard on the radio, back in their days and enjoy hearing most of those songs today, because it takes them back to a more simpler time of their lives or other important times. Believe me, to them and myself, it's more than JUST background noise. The music that most hear at work or in stores, is either a repetitious feed of the same ole, same ole (Muzak FM1) or volumes turn so low, that the average customer can't hear these songs to begin with. That's the purpose...is too have it as background music. Very few stores ever play music so loud...it will send customers packing. Want loud music in an establishment...you have night clubs.

Very simple, if you don't like the REAL hits of America's past, then you have a choice...turn off your radio and listen to the underground or album cuts that you seemingly think is better than the thousands of other hits that were around too. Nothing wrong with AOR, it's just another format that people like, but I'm not calling it "crap".

 

[oldies76]

This included the album versions of songs like "Light My Fire" instead of the truncated, Top 40 versions.

I could agree with you here. I prefer the full album length versions of classic rock hits. But the average pop hit back in the 50's, 60's or 70's did not have the 4, 5 or 7 minute version alternatives that could be played on CHR. Anyways, the edited versions would be highly preferrable, due to airtime constraints.

It's not like we could have a 7 minute version of "Afternoon Delight" or a 6 minute version of "Yummy Yummy"......God save us!

 

[oldies76]

Top 40 is an excellent format to put on the radio and ignore.

Maybe today's top 40 sound that most of us and (presumably you) don't follow. Classic top 40, as heard on classic hits stations today, is not ignored by most older people, unless we're forced to hear "Boys of Summer" seven times a day, seven days a week, then yes, it'll be ignored.

 

[firepoint525]

Top 40, back in the day, could play a mix of crossover stuff from R&B and country, among other genres, and make it all blend fairly well. The problem became whenever one of these sub-genres became too dominant, and created the inevitable backlash. That happened with disco in the late '70s, and country in the early '80s. (Urban Cowboy, anyone? Music industry types here in Nashville still hate that one!)

The other problem is that these subgenres all gradually moved so far apart from each other, that they could no longer sit side-by-side with each other on the same station. Rap, especially, became a turnoff for most people. Rap just didn't "play well with others."

Top 40 was all I had growing up. Yeah, it annoyed me that my local station wouldn't play all those other "deep" tracks on the albums, but by then, I was discovering other stations, and had a few albums of my own to listen to, as well. Top 40, for better or worse, was my musical education back then. It was great for me because it offered me a random sampling of everything that was out there at the time. If I wanted to hear more, I could go get the album. If not, I could just settle for the single. If I didn't like it at all, I could just ignore it entirely.

 

[TheBigA]

Music industry types here in Nashville still hate that one!)

They may have hated the integrity, but they loved the movey. A lot of buildings got built thanks to Urban Cowboy, Billy Ray Cyrus, and Garth Brooks. I don't know of any buildings that got built thanks to Americana.

 

[FRR]

The albums of their favorite artists might have included Top 40 hits. Led Zeppelin had hits on the Top 40, consisting of their album cuts chopped into itty-bitty pieces to allow more time to sell pimple cream. But I wouldn't call Led Zeppelin a "Top 40" act. And, when one listened to an entire album, one didn't have to sit through crap like Vickie Carr wailing "It Must Be Him" or Mike Douglas singing about the men in his little girl's life, or Sammy Davis, Jr. pretending he was hip singing about "The Candy Man". That was "Trainwreck Radio". It sucked. It sucked then, and it sucks now. All it's good for is innocuous background music. It's the kind of crap you put on the radio at work and turn the volume down so it's just loud enough to mask the drone of work and peoples' conversations. It's the kind of crap they play in grocery stores and on elevators.

Who says the "Candy Man" or Vicki Carr music is ever played in elevators or in stores, never heard it once in a location outside radio. You're giving TOP 40 a bad rap. Sure, there are the cheesy songs, but EVERY genre has those, including AOR. Then you have the power songs, the overplayed power songs that you still hear today. AND THEN, you have all the songs in between the two, the thousands of OTHER songs that are just ignored today, but are just wonderful and very memorable to hear. Call it what you want, it isn't crap! I could call "Bohemian Rhapsody" and "Boys of Summer" crap, because I hear it almost every day on some station. We get sick and tired of such small and very selective songs on the radio today, that it becomes "crap" after hearing it 100 times.

Most people remember their younger years by the music they heard on the radio, back in their days and enjoy hearing most of those songs today, because it takes them back to a more simpler time of their lives or other important times. Believe me, to them and myself, it's more than JUST background noise. The music that most hear at work or in stores, is either a repetitious feed of the same ole, same ole (Muzak FM1) or volumes turn so low, that the average customer can't hear these songs to begin with. That's the purpose...is too have it as background music. Very few stores ever play music so loud...it will send customers packing. Want loud music in an establishment...you have night clubs.

Very simple, if you don't like the REAL hits of America's past, then you have a choice...turn off your radio and listen to the underground or album cuts that you seemingly think is better than the thousands of other hits that were around too. Nothing wrong with AOR, it's just another format that people like, but I'm not calling it "crap".

Amen Oldies 76

 

[firepoint525]

Music industry types here in Nashville still hate that one!)

They may have hated the integrity, but they loved the movey. A lot of buildings got built thanks to Urban Cowboy, Billy Ray Cyrus, and Garth Brooks. I don't know of any buildings that got built thanks to Americana.

They hated it once the inevitable backlash set in! :

 

[johnbasalla]

Hello all, it's been awhile, but I'm back again to share more non-hit records that I, for the most part, picked up from the radio station. These were headed for the trash can, but I couldn't let them go. I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be other radio people who have a collection of records that came to a station, didn't make it, and were saved from the trash because you liked them.

"High Reel" by Horslips (Atco Records, 1972). An Irish Rock band, considered to be the first to combine traditional Irish music with Rock, had their first record released on Atco in the U.S.A. I believe their first LP did not feature this song until a 1978 re-issue of the album. "High Reel" is a wild, upbeat, Celtic Rock instrumental masterpiece. The traditional sounding fiddle and banjo are supported by Rock and Roll.

"Lady In Love" by Megan McDonouogh (Wooden Nickel, 1972). I may have mentioned this once before, but I found some new information. Wooden Nickel was a subsidiary of RCA. They are best known for the early recordings by Styx. Megan is still active in 2011, although she goes by Megon McDonough now. "Lady In Love" is an upbeat acoustic Rock triumph. She was a teenager when she began recording. Simply put, there has always been so much music released, that not every deserving record can become a hit.

"Dance Party Music" by Carl James and Jackie Irvin (GRC, 1974). I've got more information about this record label then this record which is a light-hearted, upbeat fun R&B pop tune. This record never charted on Pop or R&B, but I went out and bought a copy after hearing it on-air. You can sing along and clap along to this one. It appears that the owner of the label, Michael Thevis, was involved in the underworld and even pornography. That may have helped sink the label in 1976 as was some lawsuit his "Geneal Recording Corporation" (GRC) was involved with in 1975. Too bad, they flirted with becoming a major label and had a top hit success with "Chevy Van" by Sammy Johns.

 

[johnbasalla]

AN UPDATE ABOUT ONE OF THE ARTISTS I POSTED ABOUT HERE! I just got an email from the brother of Frank Morgan, the artist who wrote and recorded "Sing Your Freedom Song" for RCA Records back in or around our bicentennial year. He said the record received almost no promotion from the label. I find that interesting since they at least made promotional copies with a special "patriotic" label design with white stars on red. Couple that with the blue vinyl, and you have the good ole' red white and blue! (In my email reponse I mistakenly said the color of the vinyl was red... I wasn't emailing from home where the record is). I asked if commercial copies were similarly designed. I hope he can give me an answer. This is a "wow" moment for me!

 

[michael hagerty]

There's not enough bandwidth on the net to list all the non-hits that I love, but here are a few off the top of my head:

Monkees: What Am I Doing Hangin' Round?
Beatles: Blackbird
Neon Philharmonic: Morning Girl
Beatles: Across The Universe
Boz Scaggs: We Were Always Sweethearts
Carole King: Music
Beach Boys: Sail On Sailor
Steely Dan: Brooklyn (Owes The Charmer Under Me)
Aretha Franklin: Angel
David Gates: Clouds
Doobie Brothers: South City Midnight Lady
Paul Simon: Something So Right
Raspberries: Hit Record (Overnight Sensation)
Art Garfunkel: Travelin' Boy
Steely Dan: Bodhissatva
Denny Doherty: You'll Never Know
Doobie Brothers: Another Park, Another Sunday
Michael Murphey: Carolina In The Pines
Phoebe Snow: Harpo's Blues
Dwight Twilley Band: I'm On Fire
Leon Russell: Back To The Island
The Band: Christmas Must Be Tonight
Steely Dan: Dr. Wu
Joni Mitchell: Hejira
ELO: Illusions In G Major
Boz Scaggs: Georgia
Steely Dan: Black Cow
Stephen Bishop: Bish's Hideaway
Rickie Lee Jones: Young Blood