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Non licensed school station

L

liradioprez

Guest
My local School District is starting up a student run radiostation, and I am heading the project. They don't plan on doing anything licensed, and I'm not sure what the max ERP could be for a school..I was thinking 1 watt??

Also, how could I stream FM quality audio from the studio location, to another building about a mile away where I plan to put the transmitter in real time? I was thinking IP based but thats way beyond my budget ($500) and I don't wan't to purchase an STL, that'd blow my whole budget. I was thinking maybe some type of system that streams over networks?? The two buildings share a network. Any thoughts??
 
RF wise, I'm thinking you should use leaky cable to radiate the signal. That way you keep the signal restricted to school grounds.

Don't want the FCC to come a-knockin..... 8)
 
You didn't specify AM or FM but since the term ERP is generally only used for FM stations I will assume that's what you meant.

The FCC's regulations on unlicensed FM stations are extremely strict. There is a misconception that 100 milliwatts and a 10 foot antenna is legal on FM but it is not. The Part 15 regulations spell out an signal strength limitation that makes reception of a legal licensee-free FM signal nearly impossible beyond 1000' and certainly no where near the one mile you are looking for.

So I agree fully with the person why suggested leaky cable. That way you can have a good signal strength in the building where you want it and yet stay within the Commission's field intensity limits. If you need to cover multiple buildings just add transmitters and stagger the frequencies a bit to prevent interference.

On AM the limits are much more relaxed and there are several commercially made transmitters that supposedly are type accepted which can provide coverage of a 1/4 mile or more.
 
This is something I'm doing at the newly renovated high school in the district that I'm employed at.

I'm building up both Part 15 AM and FM besides a webstream. For AM I'm using a Hamilton Rangemaster Part 15 certified AM transmitter as I bought it many months ago. There's another high quality unit that's recently hit the market in the last couple of months, the ChezRadio Procaster, which is similar to the Rangemaster but less expensive and it has a built-in audio processor - great little box! I just performed an evaluation of it.

For the FM I'm doing in-building leaky coax based on some of the documentation I got from LPB before they went belly-up. Since I do work in terrestrial radio as well I have enough resources to make sure the FM stays compliant and doesn't exceed Part 15 limits for signal strength. An FM FIM will prove handy to do the certification. The web stream is self explanatory.

Contact me via PM if you need more info. Also check out my new web site (listed in my signature). I started the board as I couldn't find decent info or resources for Part 15 info and resources.
 
StephanieNYC said:
RF wise, I'm thinking you should use leaky cable to radiate the signal. That way you keep the signal restricted to school grounds.

Don't want the FCC to come a-knockin..... 8)
Click to expand...

One school NE of Houston went with a 50watt xmtr into a crappy helical wound antenna...it could be heard for over 10 miles away......when I notified the district they were in violation of the FCC Rules, the xmtr got yanked...PROBLEM was an engineer at a Christian radio station was the one who fixed and sold them the xmtr...knowing exactly what they were going to do with it.....(The audio was TERRIBLE!! Ive heard music on a CB sound better)....I later told a friend of mine at the Houston FCC office about it...he smiled and said, yeah I knew about it...thanks for taking care of it for me!
 
If you have a LAN or similar at the school, go here: http://www.vypress.com/products/tonecast/ and get their free software for streaming audio over it. I can vouch for this package - have seen it in use and it works very well.
You can also stream over WiFi as it sees it as just another LAN - so two computers separated by a 2.4 GHz link will work just as well.
 
Studio1 said:
If you have a LAN or similar at the school, go here: http://www.vypress.com/products/tonecast/ and get their free software for streaming audio over it. I can vouch for this package - have seen it in use and it works very well.
You can also stream over WiFi as it sees it as just another LAN - so two computers separated by a 2.4 GHz link will work just as well.
Click to expand...

If you read closely though its $49 for 50 listeners, if its being used as an STL that is more than enough. However it looks like it uses lossy compression, personally I'd prefer something that sends PCM data uncompressed. Only software package I know that streams it besides the hardware Barix units is AudioTX which is like 700$ for each end.
 
gunterm said:
Studio1 said:
If you have a LAN or similar at the school, go here: http://www.vypress.com/products/tonecast/ and get their free software for streaming audio over it. I can vouch for this package - have seen it in use and it works very well.
You can also stream over WiFi as it sees it as just another LAN - so two computers separated by a 2.4 GHz link will work just as well.
Click to expand...

If you read closely though its $49 for 50 listeners, if its being used as an STL that is more than enough. However it looks like it uses lossy compression, personally I'd prefer something that sends PCM data uncompressed. Only software package I know that streams it besides the hardware Barix units is AudioTX which is like 700$ for each end.
Click to expand...
The Barix Extremer (receiver) is about $200 street price. I'm not sure what the Instreamer currently costs, but it is under $500. It is a lot cheaper and more reliable than using two computers, unless you already have the computers or can get some clunkers for cheap.

The beauty of the Barix boxes is you don't have any hard drives, or other stuff you don't need, to deal with. You don’t have trouble with pop-ups, phoning home for an upgrade or attempting to install the Google tool bar. They are just little cubes that sit there and stream or receive audio. Once you get them working, they tend to stay that way unless something happens to your network. Quite a few stations use them for STL duty.

You could also use a PC running Shoutcast (free) at one end; use either a Barix Extreamer or even an Internet radio like a Roku Soundbridge at the other end. Both the Roku and the Barix will keep searching for your stream if it is ever lost until it is restored. That's quite handy.
 
The Barix products would be your best bet. There is even a audio sync built into it in the event you need to have more than one transmitter up at the same time, etc. (you'll need GPS lock or something of that sort to do that of course also) If you're doing things on the total cheap you might check into www.streamerp2p.com. I've seen their system used as an STL and as the streaming system simultaniously. It will usually re-hunt the signal in the event the connection is lost, etc. Another thought might be to just use shoutcast/winamp on the studio end and RX from the Sonos folks http://www.burnill.co.uk/rx_download.php for the other end of things. It will most definatly hunt for a stream until it reconnects. Good luck!
 
Chuck said:
gunterm said:
Studio1 said:
If you have a LAN or similar at the school, go here: http://www.vypress.com/products/tonecast/ and get their free software for streaming audio over it. I can vouch for this package - have seen it in use and it works very well.
You can also stream over WiFi as it sees it as just another LAN - so two computers separated by a 2.4 GHz link will work just as well.
Click to expand...

If you read closely though its $49 for 50 listeners, if its being used as an STL that is more than enough. However it looks like it uses lossy compression, personally I'd prefer something that sends PCM data uncompressed. Only software package I know that streams it besides the hardware Barix units is AudioTX which is like 700$ for each end.
Click to expand...
The Barix Extremer (receiver) is about $200 street price. I'm not sure what the Instreamer currently costs, but it is under $500. It is a lot cheaper and more reliable than using two computers, unless you already have the computers or can get some clunkers for cheap.

The beauty of the Barix boxes is you don't have any hard drives, or other stuff you don't need, to deal with. You don’t have trouble with pop-ups, phoning home for an upgrade or attempting to install the Google tool bar. They are just little cubes that sit there and stream or receive audio. Once you get them working, they tend to stay that way unless something happens to your network. Quite a few stations use them for STL duty.

You could also use a PC running Shoutcast (free) at one end; use either a Barix Extreamer or even an Internet radio like a Roku Soundbridge at the other end. Both the Roku and the Barix will keep searching for your stream if it is ever lost until it is restored. That's quite handy.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'll probably go with the shoutcast and Extreamer, just wondering..does that system run in real-time?
 
liradioprez said:
Thanks! I'll probably go with the shoutcast and Extreamer, just wondering..does that system run in real-time?
Click to expand...

There is some delay in processing but not that much. You certainly wouldn't want "monitor off the air" while talking through it though. After it is encoded it is a crap shoot as to how much latency you have in your network. In an application where I have uses a pair of Barix boxes over the Public Internet, the delay was about 8-10 seconds, but depending on your routing, it might be a lot less. It could also be considerably more. On another application, using the two boxes on a private network, I'd estimate the delay was less than one second. It was very acceptable for the intended use.
 
I would also check with the district's IT folks as they have their own issues with streaming on their network (I know as I happen to be an IT guy for my district as well). The other thing is they want to help you out and set the network so the stream has a lower likelyhood of getting trashed by other traffic on their network.

I've used both Shoutcast and the barix box and had good luck with it. Being on the same network should give you a solid solution to an economical STL.
 
Bill DeFelice said:
This is something I'm doing at the newly renovated high school in the district that I'm employed at.

I'm building up both Part 15 AM and FM besides a webstream. For AM I'm using a Hamilton Rangemaster Part 15 certified AM transmitter as I bought it many months ago. There's another high quality unit that's recently hit the market in the last couple of months, the ChezRadio Procaster, which is similar to the Rangemaster but less expensive and it has a built-in audio processor - great little box! I just performed an evaluation of it.

For the FM I'm doing in-building leaky coax based on some of the documentation I got from LPB before they went belly-up. Since I do work in terrestrial radio as well I have enough resources to make sure the FM stays compliant and doesn't exceed Part 15 limits for signal strength. An FM FIM will prove handy to do the certification. The web stream is self explanatory.

Contact me via PM if you need more info. Also check out my new web site (listed in my signature). I started the board as I couldn't find decent info or resources for Part 15 info and resources.
Click to expand...
What kind of range do you get on your Rangemaster? I've read/heard stories of them performing quite well. While the antenna limit is 10', I did once hear of a shady operator who mounted his 10' "tower" very near to a taller tower that had a tuning network at the base to make it resonant. Probably violated the spirit of the Part 15 rules, but it supposedly went quite a few miles during the day with 100mw...
 
Does this school use an in house phone system? If they do and they have extensions in the different buildings you should be able to use a pair of 15K telco wires with transformers at each end to get your signal from the studio to the transmitter(s) with no delay. Thats how we get our signal from our studio to our transmitter at the college station I DJ at.
 
BobOnTheJob said:
Bill DeFelice said:
This is something I'm doing at the newly renovated high school in the district that I'm employed at.

I'm building up both Part 15 AM and FM besides a webstream. For AM I'm using a Hamilton Rangemaster Part 15 certified AM transmitter as I bought it many months ago. There's another high quality unit that's recently hit the market in the last couple of months, the ChezRadio Procaster, which is similar to the Rangemaster but less expensive and it has a built-in audio processor - great little box! I just performed an evaluation of it.

For the FM I'm doing in-building leaky coax based on some of the documentation I got from LPB before they went belly-up. Since I do work in terrestrial radio as well I have enough resources to make sure the FM stays compliant and doesn't exceed Part 15 limits for signal strength. An FM FIM will prove handy to do the certification. The web stream is self explanatory.

Contact me via PM if you need more info. Also check out my new web site (listed in my signature). I started the board as I couldn't find decent info or resources for Part 15 info and resources.
Click to expand...
What kind of range do you get on your Rangemaster? I've read/heard stories of them performing quite well. While the antenna limit is 10', I did once hear of a shady operator who mounted his 10' "tower" very near to a taller tower that had a tuning network at the base to make it resonant. Probably violated the spirit of the Part 15 rules, but it supposedly went quite a few miles during the day with 100mw...
Click to expand...

I haven't installed the Rangemaster at the school yet due to time issues (being an IT guy has be swamped with 19 schools and 4000 computers our staff is stretched a little on the thin side). I have tested them and I'm even putting one up at my own home. I've seen them go upwards of 2+ miles under ideal installation circumstances. I just tested a new competitor to the Rangemaster, the Procaster by ChezRadio and I published the review on the HobbyBroadcaster.net site.
 
NSPUNX said:
Does this school use an in house phone system? If they do and they have extensions in the different buildings you should be able to use a pair of 15K telco wires with transformers at each end to get your signal from the studio to the transmitter(s) with no delay. Thats how we get our signal from our studio to our transmitter at the college station I DJ at.
Click to expand...

"15K telco wires" implies that the lines are equalized, which is highly doubtful for a regular telephone system. You might be able to use a dry pair, which is probably more likely to be there.
 
I think they have a dry pair with audio transformers(15khz) on each end.,kinda like we use to do in the old AM loopdays,you know call ma bell,just a dry pair please....cause if you asked for 15khz equalized the price would jump big time...
 
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