Noory in denial

[frankberry]

There is sufficient evidence that the two-drug combination may reduce the effect of the Coronavirus, particularly on older patients with any of the conditions that seem to otherwise have the effect of an increased mortality rate. While further testing is needed, were I to get the virus I'd definitely request those medications be added to my treatment just in case.

I already use one drug that was created for one condition but which works well for another. This is a very common occurrence in medical science.

The part I don't believe is that some doctors in Latin America believe that patients treated with that medication in the past for malaria will be immune to the new disease. Were that the case, I'd be home free...

I will speak with my doctor about taking the combo drugs. I am definitely in the high-risk group with three things going against me, age, diabetes and lung disease (I'm on oxygen 24/7).
I'll let my doctor determine whether the side effects of the drugs would be an acceptable risk for me.

 

[bobjim45]

So here's an example of a false and misleading OPINION just posted by Sean Hannity at FoxNews.com:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sean-hannity-gov-cuomo-stop-denying-new-yorkers-hydroxychloroquine



The truth is two weeks ago, the governor stopped prescriptions of drugs that weren't FDA approved.

That's incorrect, Gov Cuomo put restrictions only on Chloroquine and Hydroxchloroquine. Like David said the drug is approved but not for Covid-19, it would be consider an "off label" Drug. Off label use is so common that almost every drug is used off labeled and the FDA doesn't prohibit Dr's from prescribing off labels.

Right now there is a situation in NY where people test positive for Covid-19 but don't need a ER visit, so they call up or tele-hospital their primary Dr and before the executive order if the Dr thought the drugs were the best choice in consultation with the patients, they were able to get a prescription but because of the order Dr's are barred from prescribing it.

 

[davideduardo]

That's incorrect, Gov Cuomo put restrictions only on Chloroquine and Hydroxchloroquine. Like David said the drug is approved but not for Covid-19, it would be consider an "off label" Drug. Off label use is so common that almost every drug is used off labeled and the FDA doesn't prohibit Dr's from prescribing off labels.

Right now there is a situation in NY where people test positive for Covid-19 but don't need a ER visit, so they call up or tele-hospital their primary Dr and before the executive order if the Dr thought the drugs were the best choice in consultation with the patients, they were able to get a prescription but because of the order Dr's are barred from prescribing it.

I spoke with my doctor, and he said that, in the event that it were later proven that the drugs were even just sometimes effective, delaying their prophylactic use until a test could be made or until the person was able to go to a hospital could have been the difference between life and death. In fact, my doctor said "politicians that are not physicians should stay out of giving medical advice" and he mentioned the idiot governor of Nevada who outright prohibited it.

 

[bobjim45]

I spoke with my doctor, and he said that, in the event that it were later proven that the drugs were even just sometimes effective, delaying their prophylactic use until a test could be made or until the person was able to go to a hospital could have been the difference between life and death. In fact, my doctor said "politicians that are not physicians should stay out of giving medical advice" and he mentioned the idiot governor of Nevada who outright prohibited it.

I am surprised the state hasn't been hit with lawsuits over this, but it sure seems like the Governor is trying to play Doctor.

 

[gr8oldies]

There's a difference between "reduces the effects" and "cures". Trump's fans are claiming widespread use of the cocktail would "cure" and "eliminate" the virus in very short order, even by the end of April. That's quackery.

But the combination of the malaria drug with another is approved. Just not for this use.

And there is some initial testing of this off use with positive results. Maybe not totally definitive, but encouraging for those in high risk age and condition situations. Heck, even the New York Times has written favorably about it: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-malaria.html













Off-use of drugs is a common occurrence. I am on one instance right now, in fact. All that was required for insurance payment was a specific recommendation from the doctor based on having tried other meds and getting poor results.

I am really even more glad now that i don't live in New York; were I to get symptoms my physician here could have me pick that up at the drug store and use until I could get tested. And I am really glad that Cuomo is not my governor. I'll take Gavin any day!

 

[gr8oldies]

Bear in mind, people who need the drug for other purposes don't have access to it now.

That's incorrect, Gov Cuomo put restrictions only on Chloroquine and Hydroxchloroquine. Like David said the drug is approved but not for Covid-19, it would be consider an "off label" Drug. Off label use is so common that almost every drug is used off labeled and the FDA doesn't prohibit Dr's from prescribing off labels.

Right now there is a situation in NY where people test positive for Covid-19 but don't need a ER visit, so they call up or tele-hospital their primary Dr and before the executive order if the Dr thought the drugs were the best choice in consultation with the patients, they were able to get a prescription but because of the order Dr's are barred from prescribing it.

 

[gr8oldies]

True, Fox News and CNN have no license to pull. Then there's the revisionist history regarding the Fairness Doctrine, folks think it would have stopped Fox News and even conservative websites from starting

I hear a lot of people on this board (and elsewhere) saying things like "The FCC needs to crack down on Fox News (or CNN or MSNBC or whatever.)" The FCC is largely and mainly concerned about the public airwaves. You know, stuff that gets broadcast over the airwaves that we all in theory own, through some form or another of modulation? Cable networks are NOT broadcast networks.

 

[TheBigA]

But the combination of the malaria drug with another is approved. Just not for this use.

We're not here to discuss whether or not the drug is approved. But whether or not the media is presenting false and misleading information in an effort to stoke emotions and ratings, and what to do about it.

 

[TheBigA]

I am surprised the state hasn't been hit with lawsuits over this, but it sure seems like the Governor is trying to play Doctor.

It also seems like a TV personality is trying to play doctor, ignoring the fact that this same governor has approved the drug for testing. That's more than any other governor has done, and certainly more than the FDA or CDC. So the TV host is presenting misleading information about the situation, saying people are dying because of the governor. No one at the federal level has approved the drug for this use. Dr. Fauci says they need to follow procedure. That's what the state is doing. What makes this TV host more qualified than Dr. Fauci? That's what the issue is here.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

It also seems like a TV personality is trying to play doctor, ignoring the fact that this same governor has approved the drug for testing.

On one hand, I agree with you. I don't think Hannity's claims have a lot of merit. Gov. Cuomo is explicitly trying to preserve supply at retail pharmacies for Lupus and Rheumatoid Arthritis patients by prohibiting off-label prescriptions outside of the (very large) clinical trials going on within the state.

This was done because of hoarding of these drugs observed in some states after Pres. Trump's tweets in the matter, including California where the Kaiser Premenente system ran out for a period of time.

But on the other hand, the guidance from government physicians is not always right. I point specifically to the CDC's guidance dissuading the public from wearing face masks. That was clearly wrong from day 1. Everybody knew it was wrong, it was just trying to prevent a run on the same medical supplies that the hospitals were seeking. Fortunately pressure from a select few mayors, the media, and the public (self included -- I wrote to my congressman for the first time in many years) resulted in the CDC changing its recommendation as of Friday, that people wear masks in public.

That's more than any other governor has done, and certainly more than the FDA or CDC.

The FDA did grant an emergency use authorization for Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 patients last week.

 

[TheBigA]

.
The FDA did grant an emergency use authorization for Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 patients last week.

If you read the authorization, it's only for "hospitalized patients." The opinion article seeks the governor to go beyond what the FDA has approved.

 

[daddyoo]

I would add my two cents, but observing that this is just another left wing, democratic, anti trump and republican forum, I'll pass...Funny thing, pro administration posts are terminated like mine will be, but left wing agendas are praised, that''s the main reason this country is going down, the left wing media, including everything we see, hear and read is in control, what ever happened to freedom of speech??

There is no such thing as freedom of speech on this, a privately owned website.
Frank Berry

 

[kwthom]

I would add my two cents, but observing that this is just another left wing, democratic, anti trump and republican forum, I'll pass...Funny thing, pro administration posts are terminated like mine will be, but left wing agendas are praised, that''s the main reason this country is going down, the left wing media, including everything we see, hear and read is in control, what ever happened to freedom of speech??

You *do* realize that this is a privately-funded entity (internet forum) and that the owner has 100% control over what is said and how it's said, right?

I use the term "benevolent dictatorship" as a descriptive phrase.

Now, back to the topic.

 

[TheBigA]

I would add my two cents, but observing that this is just another left wing, democratic, anti trump and republican forum,

We're talking about the media here. Not the politics. You want freedom of speech? Media outlets are getting sued for covering the news. Where's free speech there? Then there's the issue of Noory, who has the freedom to say what he wants, except that it's obviously false.

 

[tbolt909]

I would add my two cents, but observing that this is just another left wing, democratic, anti trump and republican forum, I'll pass...Funny thing, pro administration posts are terminated like mine will be, but left wing agendas are praised, that''s the main reason this country is going down, the left wing media, including everything we see, hear and read is in control, what ever happened to freedom of speech??

There is no such thing as freedom of speech on this, a privately owned website.
Frank Berry

The website operators can censor content as they wish. "Freedom of Speech" doesn't mean freedom from consequences. If you call your boss an ass****, you may get fired. There are laws that prevent reckless speech(the shopworn yelling fire in a crowded theatre). Of course, there are no crowded theatres now.

As Frank pointed out, the FCC says that broadcasters cannot deliberately put out bogus information that harms the public. The line has been blurred given our current political climate. The people who won't accept Science & Facts are past the point of no return...

 

[frankberry]

I would add my two cents, but observing that this is just another left wing, democratic, anti trump and republican forum, I'll pass...Funny thing, pro administration posts are terminated like mine will be, but left wing agendas are praised, that''s the main reason this country is going down, the left wing media, including everything we see, hear and read is in control, what ever happened to freedom of speech??

Daddyoo,

Let me explain the rules one more time.
Pure religion and pure politics are two subjects which are not permitted here.
Everyone has an opinion about these subjects and opinions are seldom swayed by lengthy discussion of them.
The subjects create too much discord and ill-feelings.
Remember, this website is about broadcasting, not partisan politics or religion.

Your post is a good example of a purely partisan political post with nothing to do with broadcasting.
Repeated violation of the rules will get you a suspension or a termination of your account.

Frank Berry
Moderator/Administrator and Website Owner

 

[BamaTX]

There is sufficient evidence that the two-drug combination may reduce the effect of the Coronavirus, particularly on older patients with any of the conditions that seem to otherwise have the effect of an increased mortality rate. While further testing is needed, were I to get the virus I'd definitely request those medications be added to my treatment just in case.

An Oregon retirement home for veterans used it

Encouraging numbers given the circumstances, but still not the cure we are looking for based on the fact that it's not 100% effective.

Having said that, the amount of pushback given by the media just because Trump said it is downright petty. Hate or like the man, I think we can all agree that the attacks on the president can take a backseat until the brunt of the pandemic is over.

I already use one drug that was created for one condition but which works well for another. This is a very common occurrence in medical science.

As do I. The unwanted side-effects of some medicine may be the cure for other diseases.

The part I don't believe is that some doctors in Latin America believe that patients treated with that medication in the past for malaria will be immune to the new disease. Were that the case, I'd be home free...

The amount misinformation we have been given on ibuprofen is enough to cause a headache. Should we take it? Should we not? One country says yes, another says no.

 

[davideduardo]

If you read the authorization, it's only for "hospitalized patients." The opinion article seeks the governor to go beyond what the FDA has approved.

The governor, who is not a doctor, should not be involved in specific treatments and should allow each doctor to prescribe... or not

The fact it... and this is the reason Frank and I have allowed this thread to continue... is that the media is influencing the attitudes of the public on this.

It's not that Trump thinks the drug is worth using. This subject is mostly about the media, both electronic and print, tending to oppose anything that Trump suggests, does or says.

In the middle of all this the New York Times, in an editorial, recommended permitting the use of those two drugs when prescribed by a doctor even for those who were not diagnosed or hospitalized. Their perspective was "no harm... potential benefits"; that opinion comes from the journalistic bastion of Democrat politics.

We should not let the media determine what is solely the purview of our doctors. Except for Dr Oz, how many real doctors are in prominent media positions?

Now, I am going to go ask my gardener how to fix one of my computers...

 

[bobjim45]

It also seems like a TV personality is trying to play doctor, ignoring the fact that this same governor has approved the drug for testing. That's more than any other governor has done, and certainly more than the FDA or CDC. So the TV host is presenting misleading information about the situation, saying people are dying because of the governor. No one at the federal level has approved the drug for this use. Dr. Fauci says they need to follow procedure. That's what the state is doing. What makes this TV host more qualified than Dr. Fauci? That's what the issue is here.

there were many clinical trials ongoing in New York and in fact in the US and around the world, UW in Washington, UM in Minnesota, NYU among others before NY state announced its trials. certainly the more trials the better but research centers, hospitals and the like certainly don't need governors approval to start any kind of clinical trails.

Its not under the FDA purview to prohibit physicians from prescribing drugs off-label or in this instance hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine. Congress has repeatedly taken steps to prevent the FDA to do this.

the drug companies has pushed out more product and increased production for the increased usage of theses drugs and for that matter alot other of drugs because unlike a ventilator drugs cant be reused.

The governor is denying primary doctors from prescribing this. The older you get the more likely your primary doctor knows about your own body than you do, they know what medications you taking, your medical history. these doctors aren't going prescribe you hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine just because you feel "a little funny."

 

[TheBigA]

We should not let the media determine what is solely the purview of our doctors. Except for Dr Oz, how many real doctors are in prominent media positions?

I'm not sure anyone in the media has said anything negative about the drug. The media is trying to present caution, so that there isn't a repeat of what happened in Arizona. If medical professionals have some guidance on this, perhaps set some kind of national standard on this, so it's not left up to each state. As for doctors, I think we all know there are some unscrupulous doctors who'll prescribe whatever you tell them.

What I was saying about the Hannity opinion was that it was misleading. Your post and the one after from bobjim45 have a lot more context and detail than the Hannity opinion.