Not at 100 yet...

[robbbc]

I haven't heard even a whisper of new station flips for AAR or progressive talk in general. Very silent for months. does anyone have news- the goal of 100 stations for AAR was not met last year and I don't think they are there yet.

 

[jh]

The last I heard was Buffalo, where AAR is partially on one station, while WWKB is running competing non-AAR programs. There's an AM (with a poor directional pattern) in Little Rock the Drobny's are in the process of LMAing or buying. I imagine that will be switching to AAR if it already hasn't.

 

[fred flintstone]

Maybe AAR's management (if not the Drobnys) came to their senses and have decided to go for quality rather than quantity. They are better off with fewer good sticks than more bad ones. They are better off with some stations getting good numbers than a lot of stations getting nothing.If they want more stations carrying their programs they need to demonstrate that progressive talk can make money in competitive markets.

 

[Scribbler]

The Little Rock station switched two or three weeks ago and carries the complete Air America lineup. Al Franken broadcast live from there and was supposed to have both Bill Clinton and Wesley Clark as guests. http://www.airamericalittlerock.com/

 

[RBA]

El Paso flipped to the full lineup about 4 months ago.

 

[NewsVet]

KRFT in St. Louis picked up Al Franken in March, so Air America now lists that station as an affiliate.

 

[fred flintstone]

St. Louis represents a big change for AAR. Al Franken is on a mix-bag talk format with libertarian Neal Boortz, curmudgeon Don Imus and a Black-targeted sports talk show. Originally AAR demanded stations take the whole schedule. More recently they pushed for all progressive talk - even if some of it came from Jones. Looks like they've gone into beggars can't be choosers mode and will take any clearance they can get. They have put Thom Hartmann on non-PT format stations. This is the first instance I've heard of where they've done this with a show from their main feed. It sounds desperate and I think it's a dumb move. AAR has made a lot of dumb moves but one of their smart moves was to recognize progressive talk is a distinct format and progressive talk shows don't do well mixed in with conservative or lifestyle talk (or Urban sports talk, for that matter). AAR has got to stop setting themselves up to fail by signing up bottom-feeder Class D stations and - now - getting into hodge-podge formats (this has already caused them to strike out in other markets).But nooooooooo. They've got to save the world. Got to do SOMETHING!! No time to develop and grow the format, the product and the station line-up.

 

[Scribbler]

St. Louis represents a big change for AAR. Al Franken is on a mix-bag talk format with libertarian Neal Boortz, curmudgeon Don Imus and a Black-targeted sports talk show. Originally AAR demanded stations take the whole schedule.

No, Air America never "demanded" any such thing. Clear Channel's KPOJ in Portland, Oregon, which bills itself as "The World's First Air America Affiliate," has carried Ed Schultz for more than two years, from the first day after it switched to progressive talk.

Looks like they've gone into beggars can't be choosers mode and will take any clearance they can get. They have put Thom Hartmann on non-PT format stations. This is the first instance I've heard of where they've done this with a show from their main feed. It sounds desperate and I think it's a dumb move. AAR has made a lot of dumb moves but one of their smart moves was to recognize progressive talk is a distinct format and progressive talk shows don't do well mixed in with conservative or lifestyle talk (or Urban sports talk, for that matter).

Clear Channel's WJNO in Palm Beach remains the top AM station and the top talk station in its market. It's line up includes conservatives Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and liberals Randi Rhodes and Ed Schultz, plus Phil Hendrie and Georg Noory. Kinda blows Flintstone's theory out of the water, don't you think?

 

[fred flintstone]

Sorry, Scrib...All or nothing was AAR's original game plan - and quickly abandoned. However, their affiliate relations reps did - what's the word - "urge" potential affliates not to carry programs inconsistent with the format. Hendrie and Noory are not political shows and are not dissonant with the format. Randi Rhodes in West Palm is a special case - and you know it.Radio programming is not as precise as the laws of physics. However, a substantial body of experpience has shown liberal talk shows do not GENERALLY do well in a line-up with the conservative stations (and yes, you can nit-pick and find the occasional exception). This is why AAR pushed for progressive talk as a distinct format (something nobody else apparently thought of before - not even Democracy Radio). They were right to do that (I am agreeing with them - you should approve). They should stick to the guns.

 

[Scribbler]

Sorry, Scrib...All or nothing was AAR's original game plan - and quickly abandoned.

Yeah, "abandoned" before they ever went on the air. Schultz was on KPOJ on the first day of the Air America format.

Hendrie and Noory are not political shows and are not dissonant with the format. Randi Rhodes in West Palm is a special case - and you know it.

Please explain how Ed Schultz is a "special case." My point is that a mixed lineup of conservatives, liberals, and others IS working in West Palm Beach.

 

[fred flintstone]

AAR abandoned the policy in order to get on in Portland.WJNO has just over a two share in the Winter Book. Most of that is attributable to their morning news block (they don't have a monopoly on talk, Miami talk stations are a factor in the market - but they do have a monopoly on local news). Ed Schultz is run in the evening on delay. Weekends and evenings don't matter; audience is minimal. WJNO is 3/10th of a share point ahead of WFTL with Neal Boortz v Rush and O'Reilly (on delay) v Randy live. But the fact is, when Ed started - and when AAR started four months later - the conventional wisdom among radio programmers was liberal talk shows would not because they had not worked (mixed in with conservative shows). I don't see WJNO doing exceptionally well but - for the sake of discussion - what other markets/shows can you site where liberal talk shows have done well on a mixed-bag talk schedule?

 

[Scribbler]

AAR abandoned the policy in order to get on in Portland.

So AAR abandoned this policy (if there ever was such a policy) BEFORE it's launch and you're still obsessively pounding away at this non-issue more than two years later. Why don't you also return to the Evan Cohen loan issue, even though he's been gone for two years?

WJNO has just over a two share in the Winter Book.

. As I'm sure you know, this is an anomaly. In every other "book" they've had much better numbers and even in the winter "book," they're still number one among all AM's and all talk stations in the market.

Most of that is attributable to their morning news block [

Oh please. "Most?" I'm sure you'd get an argument from Mr. Limbaugh, not to mention Ms. Rhodes.

But the fact is, when Ed started - and when AAR started four months later - the conventional wisdom among radio programmers was liberal talk shows would not because they had not worked (mixed in with conservative shows).

So? Just what is the downside to selling Franken to a station in St. Louis? Nobody in the market wanted to commit to progressive talk and AAR had a chance to get one of their programs on a talk station. The alternative was to have no presence in a big market. How does that make AAR "desperate?" Even Limbaugh is on some terrible stations with lousy programming and poor ratings.AAR is far from perfect, but I usually find myself rooting for underdogs. You, apparently, are hoping beyond hope that they will fail, even to the point of harping on a "policy" that was never carried out by a disgraced chief executive who was forced out two long years ago.

 

[fred flintstone]

You root for underdogs? You're the one who keeps drum-banging for AAR. The underdogs in progressive talk are the ex-DR/Jones programs.I mentioned AAR's early policy merely in passing. You are the one obsessively pounding away. And then you drag Evan Cohen and the Gloria Wise loan out of left field, which is totally irrelevant to the issue I brought up. Morning drive - especially strong morning drive - ratings do have a disproportionate influence on overall shares - because that's where (disproportionately) most of the listeners are. I doubt I'd get an arguement for anybody familiar with how ratings work (or basic math). You may think all dayparts are created equal but they are not.What the Arbitron numbers show is West Palm is a weak market for AM and for news talk. The top AM station in top 50 markets can get shares double or triple (or more) what WJNO gets. The top talk usually leads the number two talker (if any) by a wide margin (not here). And it is interesting how much of the talk audience listens to Miami (with true conservative talk and progressive talk stations).And, yes, my basic point was AAR should be more selective in selecting affiliates. They would be better off with a "Gideon's band" of strong affiliates doing well locally than to take-what-they-can-get, do poorly (or fail) in some markets and provide more ammunition to those who (still) say the progressive talk format can't work. Exactly what poor stations is Limbaugh on? Starting out, Limbaugh did accept delayed or week-end "best of" spots but the strategy Ed McLaughlin followed in placing Rush was to be selective and to build (much as I am suggesting). And let's face it, you are taking issue here either out of personal animus or to nit-pick for the sake of arguement. After all, I was saying AAR did something right and they should keep it up - and you jump on that like AAR was attacked. However, I still have not seen you provide an example of another market where a liberal talk show has done well on a mixed liberal-conservative political talk station.

 

[kaufcom]

I agree with both you (Scribbler and FF.) Scribbler is right about St. Louis. St. Louis is one of only two top 20 markets without an AAR affiliate. (Houston is the other.) AAR had to make a decision about gaining a foothold in this market -- even if they violated their programming philosophy. On the other hand, I think that AAR has realized that affiliations with weak AM's was not working so that is why they have given up trying to sign up new affils in a small markets. I don't understand why Scribbler is bringing up the Ed Schultz connection. Schultz has been a de facto part of the AAR since day one. I think that 90% of AAR listeners think he is part of the network. In any case, what remains to be seen is what AAR (and lib radio in general) will they do next. Over the past six months, lib radio has seen virtually no growth and ratings have just grown slightly. Unless something is done to jump start the format, it might just die on the vine.

 

[fred flintstone]

St. Louis is one of only two top 20 markets without an AAR affiliate. (Houston is the other.)

AAR also does not have stations inhiladelphiaTampa-St Peterburg-ClearwaterIn the top 25 you can add Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cleveland (although Pittsburgh does Thom Hartmann plus local progressive talk programming). I'm not including Puerto Rico (market #13).I think Philadelphia offers a prime example of the pitfalls of non-selective clearance. AAR was on WHAT 1340 for one year with live clearance of both Al Franken and Randi Rhodes. The station has a poor signal with mostly weak reception outside the urban center. The signal is adequate for urban formats but not for progressive talk. The station had not been a factor in local ratings. In morning drive and mid-morning the station retained local Black-targeted talk shows. In the evening, it played Gospel. In between, it had syndicated White liberal talk radio from AAR. By the time Inner City Broadcasting Corp dropped AAR, the station had failed to register in the Arbitron numbers (it had been fractional - and is again with Urban Talk, now including Michael Erc Dyson from Reach Media's network). Bottom line: AAR struck out in Philly. The way things were set up, they didn't have much of chance. But striking out in the number six market does not build credibility for progressive talk in the industry.