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"Now TRENDING on WDEL.com"
- Thread starter 650AM
- Start date
Get used to it. Cross media promotion is absolutely necessary now.
I guess I don't get the problem.
WHYY-FM also promotes their online service. WDSD promotes CC's I heart radio online service. It's a shame that Arbitron doesn't gather online listening data. It would be interesting to see what % of any station's listeners are online vs listening to the radio.
I know some of WHYY-FM's callers to "Radio Times" are listening online as they are calling from distant states. Chris Carl told us here (not too long ago) that WDEL's online listening has been growing quite well. They are selling ads for their online listening that are not similcasts of what's airing on the radio.
I myself listen to both WHYY-FM and WDEL at work online, because I can not get 1150AM at all at work and sometimes there's some interference with 90.9, so its just less hassle to go online. I also listen to a talk program (On Point) sometimes from WBUR in Boston, online.
94.1 WIP-FM, 97.5 WPEN-FM, 1290 WWTX, and 107.7 WRTI (Wilmington translator) I listen to on the radio as they come in fine, no problems. But if it became a problem, I would simply go online and listen to any or all of them too.
I've listened to the Foggy Mountain Country on CC's I heart radio and their "Classica" Classical Music online service too. Both NPR and PRI (Public Radio International) also has their online links I've listened too. I listen to Jim Bohannan's Late Night talk show online the next day too. Online, Podcasts, and Apps for I-phones, etc, are radio's future, so of course WDEL and the others are going to promote it, they'd be crazy not to promote it.
WHYY-FM also promotes their online service. WDSD promotes CC's I heart radio online service. It's a shame that Arbitron doesn't gather online listening data. It would be interesting to see what % of any station's listeners are online vs listening to the radio.
I know some of WHYY-FM's callers to "Radio Times" are listening online as they are calling from distant states. Chris Carl told us here (not too long ago) that WDEL's online listening has been growing quite well. They are selling ads for their online listening that are not similcasts of what's airing on the radio.
I myself listen to both WHYY-FM and WDEL at work online, because I can not get 1150AM at all at work and sometimes there's some interference with 90.9, so its just less hassle to go online. I also listen to a talk program (On Point) sometimes from WBUR in Boston, online.
94.1 WIP-FM, 97.5 WPEN-FM, 1290 WWTX, and 107.7 WRTI (Wilmington translator) I listen to on the radio as they come in fine, no problems. But if it became a problem, I would simply go online and listen to any or all of them too.
I've listened to the Foggy Mountain Country on CC's I heart radio and their "Classica" Classical Music online service too. Both NPR and PRI (Public Radio International) also has their online links I've listened too. I listen to Jim Bohannan's Late Night talk show online the next day too. Online, Podcasts, and Apps for I-phones, etc, are radio's future, so of course WDEL and the others are going to promote it, they'd be crazy not to promote it.
J
jhguthlac
Guest
For AM stations in particular, the on-line service is a life-saver.
You can devote more space to news items can you can on the air. You can include podcats understanding that many of your listeners are in the "I want it on my schedule" generation.
My daily listening includes WDEL, WABC, WDAS-AM, all on line. KYW is one of the few stations I listen to on the air during the work week. Weekends, of course, WDEL is loud and clear at home.
Promoting your station's web site, particularly the free news items, is vital in this day.
You can devote more space to news items can you can on the air. You can include podcats understanding that many of your listeners are in the "I want it on my schedule" generation.
My daily listening includes WDEL, WABC, WDAS-AM, all on line. KYW is one of the few stations I listen to on the air during the work week. Weekends, of course, WDEL is loud and clear at home.
Promoting your station's web site, particularly the free news items, is vital in this day.
WBAL AM in Baltimore promotes their on line service ALL the time, like with the ID on the hour and at the close of EVERY news item. And Mike, if the station pays Arbitron, they can have their stream included in the ratings service. The stream for WLIF shows up in the very low numbers quite a bit. I had to make the on line feed at WZBA PPMless when I was CE there since they weren't paying to run it there, just the main signal on 100,.7.
Dave, so in PPM markets you can get the online data included, if you're buying the Arbitron service. Does that also work in diary markets like Wilmington?
So WDEL could pay to get that info and it would then show in the 12+ numbers? Of course, I guess the cheaper way to go is their computer system probably can tell them how many hits WDEL.com gets and possibly the day and time as well. Maybe the online listening button also has that ability to tell them how many folks are listening to the live streaming. I'm a bit of a Luddite, so I may be completely out in left field. I remember Chris Carl telling us here that their online listening has been growing quite well (not his exact wording). So they must be able to track it via their computer system. But it would be cool to see the numbers reported in the 12+ data, not just for WDEL, but all the stations available in the Wilmington market.
So WDEL could pay to get that info and it would then show in the 12+ numbers? Of course, I guess the cheaper way to go is their computer system probably can tell them how many hits WDEL.com gets and possibly the day and time as well. Maybe the online listening button also has that ability to tell them how many folks are listening to the live streaming. I'm a bit of a Luddite, so I may be completely out in left field. I remember Chris Carl telling us here that their online listening has been growing quite well (not his exact wording). So they must be able to track it via their computer system. But it would be cool to see the numbers reported in the 12+ data, not just for WDEL, but all the stations available in the Wilmington market.
A
amfm.com
Guest
A diary-keeper could write down a station's stream within Arbitron's Neanderthal system (and they would have to differentiate it from over-the-air listening). And, assuming a station were to get enough of that listening to meet minimum standards, they would show in the ratings. But, with so few diaries representing so many people, most streams just don't generate enough mentions to show.
And yes, you are correct in assuming that stations can get far more accurate information right out of their own streaming servers, or those that their streaming providers have. Those would be real numbers, with real listening levels, time spent, etc., compared to the formulas Arbitron uses to extrapolate numbers from a thousand or so diaries placed over 12 weeks with folks that end up having to do a memory test of what they listen to.
And yes, you are correct in assuming that stations can get far more accurate information right out of their own streaming servers, or those that their streaming providers have. Those would be real numbers, with real listening levels, time spent, etc., compared to the formulas Arbitron uses to extrapolate numbers from a thousand or so diaries placed over 12 weeks with folks that end up having to do a memory test of what they listen to.
Thanks, amfm.com for the clarification. So that explains how Chris Carl at WDEL knows that his web site listenership is growing quite well. So why would Chris pay for that info from Arbitron. Sounds like he gets better data from his server.
Today I listened to WDEL, Foggy Mountain Radio (from I heart radio), Classica, and WHYY-FM all online. I didn't bother turning on my radio at all at work today. WDEL sounds so good online, just like FM.
In my car, yes, I listened to the radio, depending on who's in a spot break, or discussing something I'm not interested in, when I scan around the dial, it could be WDEL, WPHT, WWTX, WHYY-FM, WIP-FM, WPEN-FM. or WWIQ-FM (106.9 formerly Family Radio). Ain't America great, so many choices for spoken word programming in the Philly/Wilmington metro. 990 WNTP and 1060 KYW I have as presets, but rarely listen to 990, because the signal isn't great, and 1060 for weather if I missed it on WDEL. I don't really care about Philly news or traffic so I don't listen to KYW very often.
Today I listened to WDEL, Foggy Mountain Radio (from I heart radio), Classica, and WHYY-FM all online. I didn't bother turning on my radio at all at work today. WDEL sounds so good online, just like FM.
In my car, yes, I listened to the radio, depending on who's in a spot break, or discussing something I'm not interested in, when I scan around the dial, it could be WDEL, WPHT, WWTX, WHYY-FM, WIP-FM, WPEN-FM. or WWIQ-FM (106.9 formerly Family Radio). Ain't America great, so many choices for spoken word programming in the Philly/Wilmington metro. 990 WNTP and 1060 KYW I have as presets, but rarely listen to 990, because the signal isn't great, and 1060 for weather if I missed it on WDEL. I don't really care about Philly news or traffic so I don't listen to KYW very often.
D
DX
Guest
Something absolutely critical missing from this discussion:
Arbitron will not rate a given radio station's audio stream unless it duplicates the regular radio output 100%.
For a myriad of reasons involving licensing, legal rights, etc. -- commercials, sporting events -- WDEL and many stations cannot possibly simulcast 100% of their product on the web.
That's why WDEL - and some other stations - will trigger PSA's or alternate commercials for the audio stream. It's why WDEL offers syndicated talk programming during Phillies, for example.
Therefore, wdel.com's audio stream doesn't get counted. It is a little unfair. But it's the way it is.
Conversely, wdel.com - and similar radio station platforms - become a completely different source of revenue.
Arbitron will not rate a given radio station's audio stream unless it duplicates the regular radio output 100%.
For a myriad of reasons involving licensing, legal rights, etc. -- commercials, sporting events -- WDEL and many stations cannot possibly simulcast 100% of their product on the web.
That's why WDEL - and some other stations - will trigger PSA's or alternate commercials for the audio stream. It's why WDEL offers syndicated talk programming during Phillies, for example.
Therefore, wdel.com's audio stream doesn't get counted. It is a little unfair. But it's the way it is.
Conversely, wdel.com - and similar radio station platforms - become a completely different source of revenue.
A
amfm.com
Guest
DX said:Something absolutely critical missing from this discussion:
Arbitron will not rate a given radio station's audio stream unless it duplicates the regular radio output 100%.
That's not exactly 100% correct DX. Arbitron does not allow the streaming number to be combined with the radio rating unless it is a 100% simulcast. However, as stated above, if enough listeners write down, in the case of diary markets, listening to a particular station's stream - and enough quarter hours are tallied up to qualify, that station stream will show in the ratings - As a separate 'Station' - on its own line and with its own statistics. It has happened now and again, but mostly in larger markets either with PPM ratings or more diaries than Arbitron puts out in Wilmington.
D
DX
Guest
True. But as you say, not likely to be a factor in a smaller market for the immediate future.
My thought in launching this thread was not a gripe about cross-promotion, but instead annoyance over the SAME phrase being repeated hour-by-hour, day-by-day. If WDEL is intent on saying it several times an hour, how about coming up with some ALTERNATE copy that doesn't beat the word TRENDING into the ground???
Sadly, this falls right in line with the station's shallow news coverage, repeating the SAME four news stories all morning long... ones that also ran the prior afternoon, to boot.
Does WDEL's management think listeners are SO stupid that they don't notice this or recall hearing the SAME version of the SAME story on morning drive that Loudell read the day before?
Sadly, this falls right in line with the station's shallow news coverage, repeating the SAME four news stories all morning long... ones that also ran the prior afternoon, to boot.
Does WDEL's management think listeners are SO stupid that they don't notice this or recall hearing the SAME version of the SAME story on morning drive that Loudell read the day before?
D
DX
Guest
On "trending" or any other concept, yes, you repeat it over and over. You indelibly imprint it on the listener. No different than the stations that have declared over the years, "The news watch never stops"; "You give us 22 minutes, we'll give you the world"; "Listen 2, 3, 4 times a day"; etc. How many times have those phrases been repeated without variation? As noted earlier in this discussion, WDEL is simply promoting and integrating wdel.com with its on-air presentation.
As far as the complaint about repeating the same stories, we've been through this before. It's actually a tired debate. Some P.M. through A.M. cycles, you'll have more repetition. Other times, you'll have comparatively little. It just depends on the nature of the top stories; what's new; sorry, what's trending; etc. It's been mentioned here before how a multi-tasking newsroom posting stories (with pictures) and editing video versions doesn't necessarily have the time to do different stories for different dayparts (although WDEL occasionally does, for major news stories, or at least adds new "tops" as stories develop). Also, with all the live phone interviews - particularly in P.M. drive - the same stories don't literally repeat each hour.
As far as the complaint about repeating the same stories, we've been through this before. It's actually a tired debate. Some P.M. through A.M. cycles, you'll have more repetition. Other times, you'll have comparatively little. It just depends on the nature of the top stories; what's new; sorry, what's trending; etc. It's been mentioned here before how a multi-tasking newsroom posting stories (with pictures) and editing video versions doesn't necessarily have the time to do different stories for different dayparts (although WDEL occasionally does, for major news stories, or at least adds new "tops" as stories develop). Also, with all the live phone interviews - particularly in P.M. drive - the same stories don't literally repeat each hour.
J
jhguthlac
Guest
DX, you make a great point about a particular news station and its sister "first in the nation" all-newser, which uses the same slogans. Funny, one morning at :15 to hear a morning anchor screw up the "you give us 22 minutes" line and his co-anchor totally lost it! He remarked "how many years have you been saying that?"
That station also has a thing for the TOH/BOH id's. The guy doing them has been dead at least 20 years. When they had to add the new HD identifiers, they inserted a voice, but continue the rest of his ID!
The reason for this continuity or "tradition" is simple. Keep using those reminders of what station the listener is tuned to.
I stopped at a place in Essington yesterday afternoon. The owners require the TV to either be on ESPN or CNN. The woman working was angry that she had been hearing the same 4 stories on ESPN all afternoon. Now she was hearing repeats of the same versions. Why the repeats? Most viewers of ESPN are out at an eating/drinking establishment and only hear an hour here and there.
Radio news is no different. The stations expect you to be listening 10-15 minutes a couple times a day. If you are listening 3 or 4 hours in the morning and maybe 3 more in the afternoon, you really need to get a life!
That station also has a thing for the TOH/BOH id's. The guy doing them has been dead at least 20 years. When they had to add the new HD identifiers, they inserted a voice, but continue the rest of his ID!
The reason for this continuity or "tradition" is simple. Keep using those reminders of what station the listener is tuned to.
I stopped at a place in Essington yesterday afternoon. The owners require the TV to either be on ESPN or CNN. The woman working was angry that she had been hearing the same 4 stories on ESPN all afternoon. Now she was hearing repeats of the same versions. Why the repeats? Most viewers of ESPN are out at an eating/drinking establishment and only hear an hour here and there.
Radio news is no different. The stations expect you to be listening 10-15 minutes a couple times a day. If you are listening 3 or 4 hours in the morning and maybe 3 more in the afternoon, you really need to get a life!
Even NPR repeats stories. Not just the TOH newscast, but the longer stories on Morning Edition and All Things Consider. You will hear repeated stories that aired on ME on ATC. So EVEN covering national/international stories you're going to get some duplicated stories repeated it is what it is.
So WDEL covering Wilmington and Delaware news has an even more difficult job of finding new news for their PM drive vs what Melanie and Peter covered during the AM drive. Delaware just isn't that exciting of a place (THANK the Lord) making tons of news each day. I'm happy with Delaware being a sleepy little state that most folks don't even know exists. I listen to WDEL news every weekday and read their news coverage online every day. Their stories don't have the depth that the News Journal has, but in a few minutes at WDEL.com, I know pretty much what is going on in my home state and it's free. If I want more detail, then I go buy a News Journal news paper. So in one sense WDEL is helping to sell newspapers, because the nature of radio news is not the indepth that newspapers can do. So get the headlines and the basic story from WDEL.com or WDEL radio for free, then IF you need more, buy a News Journal paper, because THAT's what the News Journal does very well.
So WDEL covering Wilmington and Delaware news has an even more difficult job of finding new news for their PM drive vs what Melanie and Peter covered during the AM drive. Delaware just isn't that exciting of a place (THANK the Lord) making tons of news each day. I'm happy with Delaware being a sleepy little state that most folks don't even know exists. I listen to WDEL news every weekday and read their news coverage online every day. Their stories don't have the depth that the News Journal has, but in a few minutes at WDEL.com, I know pretty much what is going on in my home state and it's free. If I want more detail, then I go buy a News Journal news paper. So in one sense WDEL is helping to sell newspapers, because the nature of radio news is not the indepth that newspapers can do. So get the headlines and the basic story from WDEL.com or WDEL radio for free, then IF you need more, buy a News Journal paper, because THAT's what the News Journal does very well.
J
jhguthlac
Guest
I like to compare the quality of stories on WDEL with WGMD. The FM news/talker is decidedly small market. Quality shows and hosts, but the news is mostly the police blotter complete with DUI's. That is not news, except in very small towns.
WDEL covers issues the effect more than one person. There may not be an abundance of those stories, but it is worth the time spent listening.
WDEL covers issues the effect more than one person. There may not be an abundance of those stories, but it is worth the time spent listening.
I don't think anyone but a nursing home resident could listen to WDEL's news blocks for three or four hours. Their repetitious structure certainly discourages it. It also discourages one from listening in the morning if they listened the afternoon before... or tuning back in during the AM drive if had listened for a few minutes an hour or so earlier. No one wants to hear the 5th playing of a Mellany Armstrong report on some girl event meeting or Amy Cherry's run-down of of a model rocket shoot-off....hardly cutting new events. Its sad.
During AM or PM drive time all sorts of folks are listening, mostly commuters. So the audience changes each half hour, some may listen an entire hour. I listen during my drive to work. That gives me a quick overview of what's going on, including local news/ CBS radio news/traffic/weather/sports/commentary (Osgood from CBS or the Loudell Report). Granted I don't put WDEL back on at work until 9am when Al Missetti's show comes on. Just like with KYW in Philly - give us 22 minutes and we'll give you the world. When WILM did AM/PM news blocks it was done in a similar manner. I don't get your complaint. My guess is ( I haven't listened to know) that WTOP, WCBS, etc, all do a similar type newsblock formats.
My guess is, WDEL doesn't expect folks to listen to Melanie and Peter's newsblock for 3 hours (Chris Carl or Allan Loudell would have to come on here and say for sure). They realize that folks will listen probably no longer than a 1/2 hour, maybe even less. Some may only care about the Traffic/Weather/Sports and then they're off to FM land for Music, Sports/Talk, or NPR. Now Allan's Noontime and PM drive formats are different in that he fills large blocks of each half hour with interviews. That might entice someone to keep listening if an upcoming interview is of interest, but my guess again is most folks still only listen for that half hour to an hour during PM drive. It is what it is.
If you want the longer form news story, Morning Edition and All Things Considered from NPR is where you'll find it, but those are national/international stories, NOT Delaware stories. Even WHYY-FM repeats their stories during their local news capsules that may only have one Delaware story if any included on a given day. Where WHYY-FM's local news capsules have one big advantage over WDEL is they rarely if ever go to the police blotter for local news for PA, NJ, or Del. WDEL does use the police blotter more, but they aren't filling their newscasts with Philly/PA/NJ news as WHYY-FM does. There just isn't that much news being created in Delaware fast enough to meet your need for new local news.
I'm sure that if there were some breaking story happening Chris would have one of his folks there covering it rather than some girl event or a model rocket shoot-off. I've talked with Chris a number of times on the phone. We don't always see eye to eye some topics, but I can tell you this, he knows his business and has made WDEL into a great news/talk station.
My guess is, WDEL doesn't expect folks to listen to Melanie and Peter's newsblock for 3 hours (Chris Carl or Allan Loudell would have to come on here and say for sure). They realize that folks will listen probably no longer than a 1/2 hour, maybe even less. Some may only care about the Traffic/Weather/Sports and then they're off to FM land for Music, Sports/Talk, or NPR. Now Allan's Noontime and PM drive formats are different in that he fills large blocks of each half hour with interviews. That might entice someone to keep listening if an upcoming interview is of interest, but my guess again is most folks still only listen for that half hour to an hour during PM drive. It is what it is.
If you want the longer form news story, Morning Edition and All Things Considered from NPR is where you'll find it, but those are national/international stories, NOT Delaware stories. Even WHYY-FM repeats their stories during their local news capsules that may only have one Delaware story if any included on a given day. Where WHYY-FM's local news capsules have one big advantage over WDEL is they rarely if ever go to the police blotter for local news for PA, NJ, or Del. WDEL does use the police blotter more, but they aren't filling their newscasts with Philly/PA/NJ news as WHYY-FM does. There just isn't that much news being created in Delaware fast enough to meet your need for new local news.
I'm sure that if there were some breaking story happening Chris would have one of his folks there covering it rather than some girl event or a model rocket shoot-off. I've talked with Chris a number of times on the phone. We don't always see eye to eye some topics, but I can tell you this, he knows his business and has made WDEL into a great news/talk station.
J
jhguthlac
Guest
650AM: Apparently YOU are listening for a lot of hours. And nobody but a nursing home resident could listen that long? Which home are you in? And thanks for listening!
MikefromDelaware said:My guess is, WDEL doesn't expect folks to listen to Melanie and Peter's newsblock for 3 hours
Most stations do their morning and afternoon news block on a 30 minute clock, so if you hear it in the A or B block at the top of the hour, you'll also hear it in the A or B block at the bottom of the hour. You punch in, you get what you need, and then you get on with your life.
They may not follow the exact same clock that Group W made famous, but if you pay attention, you'll notice that the top stories, the secondary stories, traffic, weather, business, and sports all tend to hit the same marks on the clock every hour in any news block and if there aren't new developments the stories won't change much.
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