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NYC ARBITRON PPM RATINGS RELEASED: NOVEMBER 2010

Interesting that classic rock Q104 has been dropping considerably in the ratings over the past few months, from 4.3 to 3.4. While still getting very respectable ratings, I wonder why the considerable change downward.
WRXP, New York's other rock station, is still not improving its low overall rating.
In the Middlesex Somerset Union ratings, nice to see that 106.3's audience is rapidly increasing, now that 106.3 has been switched to Thunder Country. And Thunder's .3 rating in New York is not bad, considering that its signal only reaches a small part of the market.
 
I wonder why WPLJ's overall ratings have dropped considerably, to a figure just above WRXP's. It seems that all the rock leaning stations in this market are down at the moment.
It will be interesting to find out if 'PLJ continues to produce the excellent revenue it has in the past.
 
Vince Santarelli's column in TheExaminer.com with ratings & demo breakouts: http://www.examiner.com/ny-in-new-york/november-ppm-s

AllAccess.com's ratings analysis which includes New York (viewed with a free sign-up): http://www.allaccess.com/net-news/a...sive-ppm-analysis-november-2010-new-york-los-

WCBS-FM is now tied for first in P35-64. Z100 is first in mornings P25-54. WABC, WXNY, WSKQ & WPAT are trending up in various demos for 3 consecutive months. In addition to WLTW, stations trending down in various demos for 3 consecutive months are WAXQ, WCBS-AM & WPLJ.
 
Ken said:
I see someone on the website above said in the comments "NEW YORK CITY NEEDS A COUNTRY STATION AT 102.7!!!"
Click to expand...

NYC has needed a country station for many years. I think modern country is the fastest growing genre of music. The fact that WKMK, which is barely listenable in NYC, pulls in any ratings at all is a sign that people will listen. WKMK has also been rising rapidly in the M/S/U ratings in NJ. Some station in NYC needs to take a chance and get rid of the old-school way of thinking that country can't make it in this area.

It also doesn't surprise me that the rock stations, especially WRXP, are not improving. I think rock is the opposite extreme of country and is a declining genre of music. It seems that there are fewer and fewer new acts when it comes to rock music, so stations like 'RXP are stuck in the same cycle of tired old tracks.
 
ansky212 said:
It seems that there are fewer and fewer new acts when it comes to rock music, so stations like 'RXP are stuck in the same cycle of tired old tracks.
Click to expand...
There are more rock acts than ever, but with the collapse of the record industry, there is much less of a promotion infrastructure. Radio has mostly abandoned any new rock that doesn't fit either of the tired 20 to 30 year old 'Alternative' or 'Active Rock' templates. This is why we find out about new rock today via online social media and trading sites and why commercial radio is completely superfluous for new rock listeners. WRXP has to deal with that reality, focus in on a rock subgenre, and superserve that audience rather than trying to be all things to all rock listeners. It works for Q104 which scrapes the bottom of the lowest common denominator Classic Rock audience. RXP has the rest of the rock universe to choose from. Sadly, they'll probably just become another ESPN repeater.
 
why not be a NY rock station, specializing in 'new' bands from the tri state/East coast, as well as focusing on the legacy of 60s/70s/80s/90s/ NY/NJ tri state bands as the primary focus;
find an identity for goodness sake, create a reason for a core of regular listeners and then build from there...
 
I believe New York City had such a station: WNEW-FM. We all know how that station's final years turned out to be, and the writing was on the wall for rock radio in the market at that point.
 
There are more rock acts than ever, but with the collapse of the record industry, there is much less of a promotion infrastructure.
Click to expand...

But that seems to only apply to rock. In terms of country music, I have already seen 2 country music awards shows in primetime in the past month or so (one on CMT, another on ABC). There is yet another one on Fox tomorrow night. I have seen nothing similar to this for rock music. So why does country get promoted so heavily? I know one reason is that it happens to be the most listened to genre of music in the US.
 
lalumia said:
why not be a NY rock station, specializing in 'new' bands from the tri state/East coast, as well as focusing on the legacy of 60s/70s/80s/90s/ NY/NJ tri state bands as the primary focus;
find an identity for goodness sake, create a reason for a core of regular listeners and then build from there...
Click to expand...
That was RXP's selling point when they started - that they'd be "New York's Rock Experience" - and they promoted themselves as such saying that they'd be in the streets & clubs of New York to find the "next big thing(s)" along with playing New York-centric rock music past & present (Lou Reed, et al.). Of course they've recently backed off that "positioner" & are now using "Rock 101.9". Obviously they lost their way because they didn't or weren't able to carry out their mission statement due to:
1. over-hyping the New York aspect of rock to try to get attention when in actuality they had no intention of being that focused - which would have been too narrow to start with
1. failure to understand the scene
2. the scene wasn't mass appeal enough to garner an audience
3. lack of resources and/or misguided optimism/direction
4. they found that there wasn't much happening in the scene so there wasn't much to "bring" to the station. Of course it's quite difficult to capture a social/cultural vibe & tangibly put it on the air (although some have been successful).
5. (as discussed in many previous threads) the fracturing/splintering of the rock audience into many sub-genres; besides the classic rock segment which seems pretty settled, which is the "next best" segment to tackle for a second rock station in NYC? Many people disagree which format should be selected. Also depends on specific market conditions/demo makeup/trends/history.
6. mixing of various rock genres on one station doesn't work today and actually didn't work way back when either - previously anything not "mainstream" would be heard on secondary outlets: think mainstream WPLJ vs. "progressive" WNEW-FM vs. signal-challenged new/modern/alternative WLIR/other suburban outlets which co-existed from the early-mid 1970s to 1983.
Then WNEW-FM morphed into a traditional AOR after WPLJ's move to CHR in late June 1983 while 'LIR eventually became 'DRE in 1987. In the 1990s/2000s there were a multitude of rock formats in NYC - many times on the same frequency: WAXQ Q104.3 alternative/metal-hard rock to classic; WXRK K-Rock from classic to alternative/modern/new rock; WNEW-FM from mainstream/heritage to AAA/alternative to classic; WDRE from modern to new music to AAA/alternative until 2004.
7. any combination of the above & more
 
I know I don't live there, but I can't believe NYC doesn't have an Alternative or Active station, its AAA and Hot ACs are falling in ratings, and both its CHRs lean Rhythmic (basically) - I can't think of any other market where Rock (and even pop/rock) is doing so poorly

What do people do in NYC if they want to hear new music that isn't pop/dance/rhythmic?
 
Modern rock may also be a tough sell in Miami, FLorida.
93Rock (WHDR), their only commercial station that was playing contemporary rock, let go of its staff, and started airing Christmas music full-time in late November. It is expected to flip to another format after the holiday.
 
^Wow you're right - Miami's even more extreme (just looked it up) - everything's either Rhythmic, Spanish, or AC - they don't even have a Hot AC station there
 
atlantaboy said:
^Wow you're right - Miami's even more extreme (just looked it up) - everything's either Rhythmic, Spanish, or AC - they don't even have a Hot AC station there
Click to expand...

/repeat on
/n=0
/do while n < 100

Spanish is a language, not a format

/n=n+1
/if n<100
/go top
/else
/repeat off

There are dozens and dozens of possible formats in the Spanish language. One of the ones on the air in Miami is Hot AC. There is also a classic hits station, a rhythmic hits station, a personality AC, a salsa station, a regional Mexican staiton, and two "more music" AC's as well as Colombian focused talk, Cuban oriented talk (several), Catholic religious, Evangelical religious and internationally focused talk.

You are also oversimplifying the English language stations. WEDR is urban, WHYI CHR, WHQT Urban AC, WPOW CHurban, WMIA rhythmic AC/adult hits, etc., etc.
 
atlantaboy said:
What do people do in NYC if they want to hear new music that isn't pop/dance/rhythmic?
Click to expand...

YouTube? Get Sirius/XM? iTunes?

Doubt anyone would have to move to Fargo to get new music that isn't CHR ;D
 
NYC is and always will be a rock city. Rock venues are always still very packed with eager listeners. There is most definitly a rock scene. We can't hear what we want on the FM dial anymore (with the execption of college radio), so we hear new music on the internet,satellite radio and our iPods. Rock radio(alternative or otherwise) in NY is very misguided these days. I can easily come up with a list of 25 bands who put out radio worthy records this year. Why do we have to wait for several months after their release to hear bands like Mumford and Sons, Neon Trees and Florence + the Machine?
 
TheWitch said:
NYC is and always will be a rock city. Rock venues are always still very packed with eager listeners. There is most definitely a rock scene.
Click to expand...
But as pjc1961 aptly points out, a rock scene does not a successful radio format make. RXP's problem is that they didn't pick a format. Classic Rock based AAA, alternative or a mainstream mix of the two might work. A mishmash does not, scene notwithstanding.

DavidEduardo said:
/do while n < 100

Spanish is a language, not a format
Click to expand...
Hey, you can do until n=10^e6 and Spanish will still be considered a programming format to those of us who don't speak the language. It all sounds the same. Those of us who don't get into CHR, Hip-Hop and Rhythmic music will lump it into the same category as well. To the non-aficionado, it all sounds the same. Semantics aside, that's the reality.
 
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