NYC Arbitron Radio Ratings: February 2013

[WNTIRadio]

Why is everyone surprised at both the content and ratings of the Fan right now?

Let's see, football is over. Baseball hasn't started in the Feb. book. Nobody cares about hockey in NYC, at least not enough people to make a dent in ratings. If you don't like basketball, then forget it in February. If you like college basketball, March Madness hasn't started yet.

Ratings will go back up come baseball season. February is like a giant void of sports.

 

[TonySantiago]

So WKTU is Hot A/C now, huh?
Whicher, rhe last four books is not exactly a trend that's wagging its tail in a friendly way.

Wanna know what I think is funnier? That WQHT (Hot 97) is listed as a "Rhythmic CHR" ;D ;D ;D ;D WWPR (Power 105.1) is still listed as Urban?

What are they smoking over at Arbitron anyway?

 

[davideduardo]

So WKTU is Hot A/C now, huh?
Whicher, rhe last four books is not exactly a trend that's wagging its tail in a friendly way.

Wanna know what I think is funnier? That WQHT (Hot 97) is listed as a "Rhythmic CHR" ;D ;D ;D ;D WWPR (Power 105.1) is still listed as Urban?

What are they smoking over at Arbitron anyway?

Arbitron does not evaluate formats. They have a set of acceptable "industry standard" format definitions, and stations pick the one they think is closest to what they do.

This is policed by the industry: If a competitor thinks a station is egregiously ill-defined, they can lodge an objection. Other than that, the format descriptions are fairly fuzzy. The only use Arbitron makes of the format descriptors in PPM markets is to provide clients with the ability to "show format" in rankers and other ratings tables. For an ad agency, the ability to see ethnic, income and audience demo composition defines things better than any description.

WHQT has, on average, just over 600,000 African American cume, and 1.1 million other cumers. WWPR has about 900,000 African American cumers, and a little above 1 million others. So, one is obviously more of an urban play, and the other is more rhythmic. Nobody could object to those format descriptors based on actual composition.

 

[ansky212]

WHQT has, on average, just over 600,000 African American cume, and 1.1 million other cumers. WWPR has about 900,000 African American cumers, and a little above 1 million others. So, one is obviously more of an urban play, and the other is more rhythmic. Nobody could object to those format descriptors based on actual composition.

Sounds like splitting hairs to me. If you randomly turned on either station and didn't tell me which it was, I don't think I could tell the difference.

 

[davideduardo]

WHQT has, on average, just over 600,000 African American cume, and 1.1 million other cumers. WWPR has about 900,000 African American cumers, and a little above 1 million others. So, one is obviously more of an urban play, and the other is more rhythmic. Nobody could object to those format descriptors based on actual composition.

Sounds like splitting hairs to me. If you randomly turned on either station and didn't tell me which it was, I don't think I could tell the difference.

Obviously, from the figures, the audience can.

 

[XCountry285]

It looks to me like the fan-fm (101.9) isn't doing so well... Just sayin'!

A flip back to Alternative might be in order...or CBS Sports on 101.9 only?...just sayin...

 

[TonySantiago]

Just for the sake of argument, and I'm not trying to be ignorant about this....I've just tuned in to both Power 105.1 and Hot 97.

As of 5:38PM - Hot 97 is playing "M.I.A". by Wale and Omarion. It's a hip-hop track. Power 105.1 is playing "Mirrors" by Justin Timberlake which is more pop but for the sake of Power 105.1 has that R&B slant to it. Yet Hot 97 is "rhythmic CHR" and Power 105.1 is "urban?" ???

Let me even take it one step further....ask a 21 year old kid what type of station Hot 97 or Power 105.1 is...they are going to say "hip-hop". Maybe one will say R&B. But HELL NO that they're thinking it's a "rhythmic" version of a Z-100 or a 92.3 Now.

At BEST, and this would be a bad example but for the sake of Arbitron...if you're going to use "rhythmic CHR" as a label...the closest station that could claim it is 'KTU. Though personally, if that label HAS to be used, give it to a station that plays dance/EDM, and more like a Pulse 87 than an "Evolution".

 

[davideduardo]

At BEST, and this would be a bad example but for the sake of Arbitron...if you're going to use "rhythmic CHR" as a label...the closest station that could claim it is 'KTU. Though personally, if that label HAS to be used, give it to a station that plays dance/EDM, and more like a Pulse 87 than an "Evolution".

Remember, we are not talking here about listener perceptions. We are discussing the labels Arbitron includes with the ratings data for subscribed agency and client accounts.

The 60% non-Black composition of Hot does make the "rhythmic CHR" definition fit nicely. And the Urban definition fits WWPR well because half of its cume... and more than half the heavy user cume, is African American.

When even looked at, the format definitions help agencies in selecting stations so that they will cover a spectrum of formats, which means better reach in the reach & frequency calculations.

 

[davideduardo]

It looks to me like the fan-fm (101.9) isn't doing so well... Just sayin'!

A flip back to Alternative might be in order...or CBS Sports on 101.9 only?...just sayin...

Huh? The station (or combo if you like) is doing exceedingly well.

The WFAN brand was in a virtual three way tie for 3rd in billings in New York in 2012. It's the 9th highest biller in the country, too. I can think of about 11,110 US commercial stations that are more likely to mess with their format than WFAN.

And, at this moment, we do not know where the bulk of Fan listeners are... AM or FM. The assumption is that most... particularly in the sales demos... have migrated to FM (just as was CBS' experience in Detroit).

 

[TonySantiago]

Remember, we are not talking here about listener perceptions. We are discussing the labels Arbitron includes with the ratings data for subscribed agency and client accounts.

But...you've said this a couple of posts ago...
"Obviously, from the figures, the audience can."

If I'm not mistaken, from that sentence does that mean listener perceptions?

The 60% non-Black composition of Hot does make the "rhythmic CHR" definition fit nicely. And the Urban definition fits WWPR well because half of its cume... and more than half the heavy user cume, is African American.

When even looked at, the format definitions help agencies in selecting stations so that they will cover a spectrum of formats, which means better reach in the reach & frequency calculations.

Hmmmmm.....I understand where you are coming from, but why am I still thinking its some sort of marketing "deception" in that sense?

 

[davideduardo]

But...you've said this a couple of posts ago...
"Obviously, from the figures, the audience can."

If I'm not mistaken, from that sentence does that mean listener perceptions?

The listener can determine that the two stations are different enough to justify two different format descriptors.

When even looked at, the format definitions help agencies in selecting stations so that they will cover a spectrum of formats, which means better reach in the reach & frequency calculations.

Hmmmmm.....I understand where you are coming from, but why am I still thinking its some sort of marketing "deception" in that sense?

No... Urban is a descriptor typically applied if most of the core of a station is African American. WWPR qualifies, while Hot does not.

(Naturally, in each market there is some give and take... the 90's Beat in LA was considered "urban" but it did not have a predominant Black core only because the African American population of LA was below 9%.)

Considering that agencies don't buy from format descriptions alone... if they use them at all... and that they look at audience composition for age and other characteristics, there is no deception.

Where we see this come into play even more is at the older end. While a station may call itself "oldies" on the air, and listeners may perceive the station to be oldies, if the music base is centered on the 70's, the station will self-define to Arbitron as "classic hits" and not "oldies" because the "oldies" term has very negative agency level connotations as it identifies an "out of target demo" format.

Again, if any other station feels that a station Arbitron description is too far off the mark, they can object. All subscribers can go to the subscriber website and look at the Station Information Profile for any station and even see when it was updated last.

 

[wadio]

Please tell me how WOR sounds better than WABC?

Joan Hamburg? Dave Ramsey? Whoever that is in the afternoon now?

The station sounds like an unfocused mess. WABC is no great shakes, but WOR isn't sounding better.

Simone is a bore and comes across full of himself, and not in a Rush tongue in cheek kind of way. Geraldo is also no ball of fire, but he doesn't grate on me the way Simone does.

That would be Rita Cosby. She has to be the worst talk show host I've ever heard. Totally self-absorbed ... yammers on about issues about which she has no original opinion but uses every opportunity to focus attention back toward herself.

Try this: pour yourself a glass of Scotch and take a swig every time she says "I," "me," or "my." You'll be unconscious in 60-seconds.

 

[XCountry285]

WEPN-FM 98.7 FM is the lowest rated FM. WXRK-FM is the lowest rated FM music station next to WPAT. One of these stations needs to change formats. I'm thinking that 92.3 will become 1010 WINS. WPAT is not finding its niche. WEPN-FM again not doing so well and I can see it fixing its station, flipping formats or at least being sold off to Cumulus or someone else. WEPN-FM has low ratings as does WFAN-FM they aren't much better at 2.5 share that's a drop from their last book at 3.7 in which it was climbing prior that's a major drop. I don't understand how Lite FM is #1 all the time, they're music is old and boring to me...Fresh actually plays more variety and isn't afraid to take risks and play alternative/aaa songs...I can see Fresh going more AAA like the Peak soon. They're a great station though. KTU should go 100% Dance music I don't understand why they haven't...or even adding dubstep into the mix. Nash is doing well, I hope they continue to do well because its a great station.

 

[reelyreal]

xCountry285, how are those stations performing in their demographics that are actually used to sell advertising?

Oh, you don't know?

 

[XCountry285]

it doesn't make sense that KTU doesn't go dance that's what KTU has been known for or was for that matter.

 

[Jeffrey]

At BEST, and this would be a bad example but for the sake of Arbitron...if you're going to use "rhythmic CHR" as a label...the closest station that could claim it is 'KTU. Though personally, if that label HAS to be used, give it to a station that plays dance/EDM, and more like a Pulse 87 than an "Evolution".

Remember, we are not talking here about listener perceptions. We are discussing the labels Arbitron includes with the ratings data for subscribed agency and client accounts.

The 60% non-Black composition of Hot does make the "rhythmic CHR" definition fit nicely. And the Urban definition fits WWPR well because half of its cume... and more than half the heavy user cume, is African American.

When even looked at, the format definitions help agencies in selecting stations so that they will cover a spectrum of formats, which means better reach in the reach & frequency calculations.

Composition wise it makes sense but the odd part is that HOT tends to lean much heavier on the hip, hop than Power 105. I've always considered Power as more of a rhythmic CHR.

 

[davideduardo]

Composition wise it makes sense but the odd part is that HOT tends to lean much heavier on the hip, hop than Power 105. I've always considered Power as more of a rhythmic CHR.

There is a huge argument with no resolution in the question "Is hip hop urban?"

Some will say hip hop is part of urban, but there is a significant r&b component, while hip hop can also be part of CHR as well as Hispanic targeted stations like KXOL or WRMA.

 

[davideduardo]

it doesn't make sense that KTU doesn't go dance that's what KTU has been known for or was for that matter.

'KTU is 7th in overall billing in New York... the reason they do not switch format is that there is no need; they are doing great right now and they fit perfectly with the CC cluster.

 

[Jersey Maiden]

At BEST, and this would be a bad example but for the sake of Arbitron...if you're going to use "rhythmic CHR" as a label...the closest station that could claim it is 'KTU. Though personally, if that label HAS to be used, give it to a station that plays dance/EDM, and more like a Pulse 87 than an "Evolution".

Remember, we are not talking here about listener perceptions. We are discussing the labels Arbitron includes with the ratings data for subscribed agency and client accounts.

The 60% non-Black composition of Hot does make the "rhythmic CHR" definition fit nicely. And the Urban definition fits WWPR well because half of its cume... and more than half the heavy user cume, is African American.

When even looked at, the format definitions help agencies in selecting stations so that they will cover a spectrum of formats, which means better reach in the reach & frequency calculations.

Composition wise it makes sense but the odd part is that HOT tends to lean much heavier on the hip, hop than Power 105. I've always considered Power as more of a rhythmic CHR.

I think for a time, Hot 97 was playing more dance, especially during mixshows (LMFAO, Chris Brown, even Gangnam Style one November morning). But the pendulum went back the other way and now, Power is the one with more dance on the playlist, especially in mornings.

The WFAN brand was in a virtual three way tie for 3rd in billings in New York in 2012. It's the 9th highest biller in the country, too. I can think of about 11,110 US commercial stations that are more likely to mess with their format than WFAN.

Do you have the billing numbers for 92.3? Maybe that would explain why it survives even with sagging ratings.

 

[Jeffrey]

At BEST, and this would be a bad example but for the sake of Arbitron...if you're going to use "rhythmic CHR" as a label...the closest station that could claim it is 'KTU. Though personally, if that label HAS to be used, give it to a station that plays dance/EDM, and more like a Pulse 87 than an "Evolution".

Remember, we are not talking here about listener perceptions. We are discussing the labels Arbitron includes with the ratings data for subscribed agency and client accounts.

The 60% non-Black composition of Hot does make the "rhythmic CHR" definition fit nicely. And the Urban definition fits WWPR well because half of its cume... and more than half the heavy user cume, is African American.

When even looked at, the format definitions help agencies in selecting stations so that they will cover a spectrum of formats, which means better reach in the reach & frequency calculations.

Composition wise it makes sense but the odd part is that HOT tends to lean much heavier on the hip, hop than Power 105. I've always considered Power as more of a rhythmic CHR.

I think for a time, Hot 97 was playing more dance, especially during mixshows (LMFAO, Chris Brown, even Gangnam Style one November morning). But the pendulum went back the other way and now, Power is the one with more dance on the playlist, especially in mornings.

The WFAN brand was in a virtual three way tie for 3rd in billings in New York in 2012. It's the 9th highest biller in the country, too. I can think of about 11,110 US commercial stations that are more likely to mess with their format than WFAN.

Do you have the billing numbers for 92.3? Maybe that would explain why it survives even with sagging ratings.

92.3 NOW cumes well.