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NYC Empire State Building Translators -- When Active?

S

Stanislav

Back in the 60's/70's, all of the NYC TV stations based on the Empire State Building also ran UHF translators (up in the 50's and 60's channel range), which were use to sort of fill-in reception gaps in midtown where the complex "terrain" of all the tall buildings wreaked havoc with the VHF signals (multi-path, ghosting, etc.). At one time, they were even listed in TV Guide (as a footnote to the channel grid, not in the listings themselves). I believe they stayed active until the move en masse to the World Trade Center. Does anyone know the exact time frame in which these translators were operational? (When did they come on; when did they go dark?) Was the whole translator idea a joint plan that the stations engineered together, or did one station put one on, then another followed suit, then the rest, etc.?

Among the many things these stations did after 9/11 to come up with temporary means of enhancing their signals in the wake of the destruction of the WTC, at least one station, WPIX, is said to have fired up its old ch. 64 translator for a time. Did any of the other NYC stations reactivate their old translators in the weeks and months after 9/11?
 
Stanislav said:
Back in the 60's/70's, all of the NYC TV stations based on the Empire State Building also ran UHF translators (up in the 50's and 60's channel range), which were use to sort of fill-in reception gaps in midtown where the complex "terrain" of all the tall buildings wreaked havoc with the VHF signals (multi-path, ghosting, etc.). At one time, they were even listed in TV Guide (as a footnote to the channel grid, not in the listings themselves). I believe they stayed active until the move en masse to the World Trade Center. Does anyone know the exact time frame in which these translators were operational? (When did they come on; when did they go dark?) Was the whole translator idea a joint plan that the stations engineered together, or did one station put one on, then another followed suit, then the rest, etc.?

Among the many things these stations did after 9/11 to come up with temporary means of enhancing their signals in the wake of the destruction of the WTC, at least one station, WPIX, is said to have fired up its old ch. 64 translator for a time. Did any of the other NYC stations reactivate their old translators in the weeks and months after 9/11?
Click to expand...

IN the 70's and early 1980's, virtually all of NYC's TV stations had these translators as a cooperative joint effort of all of the NYC TV stations to counteract the increased multipath as a result of the World Trade Center being built. It was specifically designed to help viewers in the Bronx and Upper Manhattan to get a ghost-free signal. Mainly, these translators operated between Channels 52 through 83 and were running about 1000 watts each. In essence, it was a free over-the-air "wireless cable system" to help landlords and tenants of high rise apartment buildings get a clear signal of NYC TV's stations. Channels 70 through 83 were still not yet being used for cell telephones so the spectrum was ripe for this use. Once the full-powered TV stations moved to WTC in the early 80's, the need for the translator system was diminished. Some left the air, others were sold to various entities for the then-new LPTV service. For example, W53AA (Channel 53) was a repeater for WCBS-TV. Today that station is Korean formatted WKOB-LP, though operating on another channel. WPIX had W73AP (Channel 73), later it moved to Channel 17 (W17AG). 'PIX shut it down in the early '90's. The channel is operating by another licensee. WPIX got the old WNEW-TV translator allocation on Channel 64 after 9/11 for a brief period. While I was visiting NYC in 1975, I actually saw W53AA on the air in my hotel room at the old Americana City Squire (8th Ave and 52nd St). For 1000 watts, it had a good signal. The color on 53 seemed better than Channel 2. Go figure.

Peter Q. George (K1XRB)
Whitman, Massachusetts
 
Peter Q. George (K1XRB) said:
IN the 70's and early 1980's, virtually all of NYC's TV stations had these translators as a cooperative joint effort of all of the NYC TV stations to counteract the increased multipath as a result of the World Trade Center being built. It was specifically designed to help viewers in the Bronx and Upper Manhattan to get a ghost-free signal. Mainly, these translators operated between Channels 52 through 83 and were running about 1000 watts each. In essence, it was a free over-the-air "wireless cable system" to help landlords and tenants of high rise apartment buildings get a clear signal of NYC TV's stations. Channels 70 through 83 were still not yet being used for cell telephones so the spectrum was ripe for this use. Once the full-powered TV stations moved to WTC in the early 80's, the need for the translator system was diminished. Some left the air, others were sold to various entities for the then-new LPTV service. For example, W53AA (Channel 53) was a repeater for WCBS-TV. Today that station is Korean formatted WKOB-LP, though operating on another channel. WPIX had W73AP (Channel 73), later it moved to Channel 17 (W17AG). 'PIX shut it down in the early '90's. The channel is operating by another licensee. WPIX got the old WNEW-TV translator allocation on Channel 64 after 9/11 for a brief period. While I was visiting NYC in 1975, I actually saw W53AA on the air in my hotel room at the old Americana City Squire (8th Ave and 52nd St). For 1000 watts, it had a good signal. The color on 53 seemed better than Channel 2. Go figure.
Click to expand...

I grew up in the south Bronx and I remember those translator stations very well. As I recall, I could get video **but no audio** from both channel 53 or channel 57 (the WNBC-TV repeater). Channels 64 (WNEW-TV), 66 (WABC-TV), 71 (WOR-TV), 73 (WPIX), 75 (WNET) and 79 (WNYC-TV) all came in fine.

I do wonder why the other UHF stations (25, 41, 47, and 68) didn't utilize repeaters -- was it because they were staying at the Empire State Building?
 
Rollo-Smokes said:
Peter Q. George (K1XRB) said:
IN the 70's and early 1980's, virtually all of NYC's TV stations had these translators as a cooperative joint effort of all of the NYC TV stations to counteract the increased multipath as a result of the World Trade Center being built. It was specifically designed to help viewers in the Bronx and Upper Manhattan to get a ghost-free signal. Mainly, these translators operated between Channels 52 through 83 and were running about 1000 watts each. In essence, it was a free over-the-air "wireless cable system" to help landlords and tenants of high rise apartment buildings get a clear signal of NYC TV's stations. Channels 70 through 83 were still not yet being used for cell telephones so the spectrum was ripe for this use. Once the full-powered TV stations moved to WTC in the early 80's, the need for the translator system was diminished. Some left the air, others were sold to various entities for the then-new LPTV service. For example, W53AA (Channel 53) was a repeater for WCBS-TV. Today that station is Korean formatted WKOB-LP, though operating on another channel. WPIX had W73AP (Channel 73), later it moved to Channel 17 (W17AG). 'PIX shut it down in the early '90's. The channel is operating by another licensee. WPIX got the old WNEW-TV translator allocation on Channel 64 after 9/11 for a brief period. While I was visiting NYC in 1975, I actually saw W53AA on the air in my hotel room at the old Americana City Squire (8th Ave and 52nd St). For 1000 watts, it had a good signal. The color on 53 seemed better than Channel 2. Go figure.
Click to expand...

I grew up in the south Bronx and I remember those translator stations very well. As I recall, I could get video **but no audio** from both channel 53 or channel 57 (the WNBC-TV repeater). Channels 64 (WNEW-TV), 66 (WABC-TV), 71 (WOR-TV), 73 (WPIX), 75 (WNET) and 79 (WNYC-TV) all came in fine.

I do wonder why the other UHF stations (25, 41, 47, and 68) didn't utilize repeaters -- was it because they were staying at the Empire State Building?
Click to expand...

If I recall, WBTB/WWHT (Channel 68) did operate a repeater on Channel 60 (W60AI) as well. In fact, it is still operating but now from Empire as a shopping channel. Back to 53 (WCBS) and 57 (WNBC)...... did they eventually fix the problem or was this an ongoing problem? You'd think that with a borough of over a million people (potential viewers), they would fix the problem ASAP. I'm curious on where the repeaters originated from. Was it from Empire with very directional arrays aiming toward the Bronx and Upper Manhattan or were they at another location on a tall building? Any takers?
 
And don't forget, the construction of the WTC also ushered in Manhattan's first cable systems, probably the first major systems in the NYC metro area. I think there were two companies franchised in Manhattan, one was Teleprompter. Each had a capacity of 26 channels and served different parts of the city.
 
fortmill said:
And don't forget, the construction of the WTC also ushered in Manhattan's first cable systems, probably the first major systems in the NYC metro area. I think there were two companies franchised in Manhattan, one was Teleprompter. Each had a capacity of 26 channels and served different parts of the city.
Click to expand...
TelePrompTer Cable handled upper Manhattan, Manhattan Cable handled from the southernmost tip of the borough to the East 80's and West 70's.
 
I also have a question as to the calls of one of the translators - Channel 79 for WNYC-TV 31. Besides WCBS-TV's W53AA (now WKOB-LD) and WPIX's W73AP (now WEBR-CD), the others were:
- W57AB Channel 57 (for WNBC-TV 4)
- W64AA Channel 64 (for WNEW-TV 5)
- W66AA Channel 66 (for WABC-TV 7)
- W71AK Channel 71 (for WOR-TV 9)
- W75AM Channel 75 (for WNET 13)
- W62AA Channel 62 (for WNJU-TV 47)
- W60AI Channel 60 (now W41DO-D) (for WTVG/WWHT 68)
A DX newsletter called VHF/UHF Digest, circa 1977, listed a Connecticut-based translator, W61AX, for WXTV 41, but this was not accounted for in TV Guide listings of the period.
 
I think Connecticut had W61AC channel 61, which was a translator for Connecticut Public Television (CPTV). It was licensed to Waterbury and signed off to make room for WTIC-TV (FOX) channel 61 of Hartford. WTIC signed on in September of 1984. Waterbury would later have W12AC, which would go off the air for WTXX-DT, the original digital assignment for WTXX-TV channel 20 of Waterbury. WTXX-TV would switch their digital to channel 20 with the analog sign-off in 2009. (They are now WCCT-TV, our market's CW affiliate.)
 
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