NYC Metro Radio Ratings November 2022

[TheBigA]

I also said, "I am speaking of programs with banter between the talent and not what sounds like a robot reading a script.

That wasn't in your first comment. You keep adding more requirements.

You want banter between the talent? Listen to WABC or WOR. They talk amongst themselves all the time.

What you want ISN'T a commercial format. Radio Netherlands isn't a commercial product. It's public radio.

 

[Marcos_C]

There was another, brief, tune played at the start of every English transmission -- not the bells of the interval signal but a melody played by an orchestra. It wasn't the anthem (nor was the interval signal), so what was it?

I'm not sure. The Dutch-language service had another brief orchestral tune that it played at the beginning of its transmission.

 

[mikerock]

That wasn't in your first comment. You keep adding more requirements.

You want banter between the talent? Listen to WABC or WOR. They talk amongst themselves all the time.

What you want ISN'T a commercial format. Radio Netherlands isn't a commercial product. It's public radi

You are cherry picking and outright lying now since I did not add anything new. Go back and read what I wrote.

WABC and WOR are heavy in political talk, it is not the same as what I was discussing. Free-FM was a commercial format, WABC/WOR are commercial formats. I was obviously saying there a lack of a hybrid type format and you know it.

Radio Nederlands is obviously is not commercial and was speaking of specific programs that were a mix of in-depth reporting and talent banter. Is it so friggin taboo here to suggest such a infotainment format?

If I insulted a station or group you play a role in that was not my intention to insult you. Otherwise stop being a dick in your replies.

 

[TheBigA]

You are cherry picking and outright lying now since I did not add anything new. Go back and read what I wrote.

I did. Read Post #54 and #57. My first response was to #54, and then you added more in #57.

Then you added more requirements in #60.

Free-FM was a commercial format,

Free FM was a commercial format 30 years ago that failed. And you wonder why it's not around anymore?

Radio Nederlands is obviously is not commercial and was speaking of specific programs that were a mix of in-depth reporting and talent banter. Is it so friggin taboo here to suggest such a infotainment format?
replies.

Not at all. You just want it done as a commercial format without conservative politics in NYC.

 

[mikerock]

I did. Read Post #54 and #57. My first response was to #54, and then you added more in #57.

Then you added more requirements in #60.



Free FM was a commercial format 30 years ago that failed. And you wonder why it's not around anymore?



Not at all. You just want it done as a commercial format without conservative politics in NYC.

LOL. #60 I re-quoted my earlier post and described what I was saying which was obvious. You are trolling.

Free-FM was 16 years ago, not 30. You see I can do that to. Of course it failed, I never said it was a success or should be resurrected. I suggested a hybrid only to make the point between robotic talent and talent driven radio.

You are just looking to nitpick and argue now. Trolling obviously.

 

[TheBigA]

You are just looking to nitpick and argue now. Trolling obviously.

Back at you.

 

[ksradiogeek]

I hope they aren't playing Justin Timberlake he is not R&B he is pop.

JT was played quite frequently on rhythmic in the 2000s, with KTU in particular (which, as has been mentioned here before, heavily targets Hispanics) giving him heavy spins. Even hip hop-heavy rhythmics in my home area gave him spins. If you’re trying to recreate the past sounds of Hot/Power/KTU circa ‘06, you don’t ignore a core artist that still tests well with (primarily) women.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

They played Gone by Nsync in 2001 on Urban stations. Justin Timberlake was very R&B. He was mostly on Top-40 but his music was R&B enough to attract at least some attention on the urban side.

 

[ksradiogeek]

They played Gone by Nsync in 2001 on Urban stations. Justin Timberlake was very R&B.

Not to mention, ‘This I Promise You’ and ‘God Spent a Little More Time on You’ were also given spins on rhythmic, and are staples on a couple of slow jam shows.

 

[DOB]

I've spent some time this past week with WNEW in the background and I have been greatly impressed with their playlist. A perfect flow of the best recurrents, gold, and currents. 2022, we are working with less mass appeal currents and this station has the formula right.
WKTU and WHTZ are heritage brands, have personalities, Elvis mornings on Z, and Hollywood afternoons on KTU which not equal to Elvis 'advantage' but matters, that have been successful here forever, and their imaging is as good as it gets. Iheart has excellent imaging, and these two are some of the best.

WNEW is doing so well because their music logs each hour, each day are so well done.
Currents, 65x 5 of the best powers. The right amount of subpowers which isn't too heavy and they are careful to avoid stiffs. They play it conservative, rightfully wait for the chr Z100 to take the chances on new songs to see which are hits, but the obvious ones like Sam Smith and Taylor they jump on with the quick assent to power. Subs are used right to keep it fresh. For example the latest Weeknd song. He's a familiar artist and the new song is that signature sound, mid tempo, and rhythmic pop flavor.
Recurrents, so many stations die here. WNEW is very careful not to be over playing these songs with the varying levels of burn.
Gold, this is where they shine! They go back to late 90s. They have identified all the best over these 20 years of the pop hits that have endured. They have a great amount and they rotate well. You don't hear the same, but also never a bad one. The gold that tests now, the familiar that endure, chart position when the song was new is irrelevant.

As always, just as important as what you play is how you play it. The flow of new, re, gold, tempo, texture and feel.... it's simply a great New York listen! It does sound simple, but it's not simple to consistently have the music logs check all the boxes flawlessly.
An adult chr like this that's safe and leaning rhythmic pop as those are the hits that endure, which is safe, upbeat, fresh, and avoids hip hop is just a better listen than CHR is today.

WNEW music logs are superior to KTU, it's hands down the better listen because it's about the music. Imaging, jocks, and contests are complimentary.

 

[DOB]

The Block. Lol
Yes, we all are aware of the signal deficiency and this limits it's potential. This format gets on 'ethnic' buys that run deeper and combos with their sister stations so automatically it bills better than Country which billings we're atrocious.

You guys here are killing me with the counting of songs the Block plays each week.
It's a hip hop station so there are mixshows.
Those mixshow DJs (in the mix jigga jigga kind lol) get leeway from the PD to play what they want within the basic confines of the format and they might just play 30: seconds of a song.

When they started it was too restricted and wasn't New York customized for which a throwback hip hop station has to reflect the market.
Now it's better though I think it could be more focused.
My thoughts are just that WBLS is slaying it so I would try to get some of that, yes heritage and full market, they can't really compete, but some nibbles could improve the numbers in demos.
A more adult urban sound in middays, super familiar in drivetime, cut back on some obscure tune outs that play in those mixshows, that's where I would start.
Maybe an adjustment to a more adult Rnb sound completely? I'd not resort to retooling like that just yet, but maybe a more direct attack on BLS ultimately is the way to go.
That's what Power would've already did if they weren't the home of the Breakfast Club.

 

[TheBigA]

Those mixshow DJs (in the mix jigga jigga kind lol) get leeway from the PD to play what they want within the basic confines of the format and they might just play 30: seconds of a song.

FYI If they play less than a minute of a song, it won't get counted by Mediabase. That was to counter some labels that would buy spots at stations, and play :30 of a song in order to get credit for a spin. When I posted that the playlist at The Block was 600 songs, that number was based on plays of more than :60. So its possible they play more songs than indicated on Mediabase.

I posted the size of the playlist because a listener complained that the station plays the same throwbacks all the time. That's not how it appears on Mediabase.

 

[davideduardo]

Seems the formula is Rhythmic formats with small repetitive playlists with each song researched tested by small clueless groups (old chart history be damned).

Unless a station is switching formats, it uses an independently recruited sample of its own heavier listeners. They are invited, in exchange for money or some valuable reward like a $100 gift certificate or similar to "log in" and score on a sliding scale a bunch of songs.

Depending on the format, it might be a few hundred for CHR, or as many as 800 to 1000 for a Jack-type format and somewhere in between for country or classic rock or classic hits.

Old chart history, is, indeed totally "damned" as that is irrelevant today. What we want to know is "how much would you like to hear that song on the radio today?"

I went back and picked a chart from a station I loved to listen to many years ago. Of 40 songs, there were fewer than 10 I'd like to hear again now, and even less that I can say I'd love to hear again. There are about 20 I'd hate to hear again, and another 10 that I'm indifferent about. I don't hate them, but don't love them.

Stations want to find those few that I'd like to hear again today. Not the rest.

So let's say a classic hits station covers about 15 years of music. Maybe around 150 new songs got played in a year on the local CHR station back in the day. 30 or 40 stiffed without even getting into the top 25 songs in the market, and probably less than 50 ever made the top 10 and got played as powers. That means that there are around 700 to 800 songs from those 15 years that made it up to the higher places on the charts.

Of those 700 songs or so, you will find that several hundred... at least... are just uniformly rejected when you ask "how much do you want to hear that today?" So we are down to around 400 to 500 songs, and about half have the highest scores. You will play the big ones more than the weaker ones, but you are still playing only about 25% or less of the songs that charted back in the day.

Probably a good time to get out of radio stocks. Religious doom and gloom preachers and tropical shortwave station owners are probably salivating at the chance to pickup an NYC FM properties on the cheap in the not too distant future to simulcast with their shortwave outlet after the consultants burn NYC radio to the ground.

There have not been any commercial "tropical" (whatever that means") shortwave stations for decades. The rest of your thesis is absurd

I would assume that if you were sued for something like plagiarism or copyright infringement you'd hire a lawyer, right?

You said, "yes" I assume.

Well, a program consultant is like a lawyer or any other skilled authority. You call on them for added knowledge and experience. Most radio consultants are success-proven experts who guide your staff in putting together a winning format that has real strength in the ages advertisers seek. Right?

It is really at a point where why would an individual not stream for music given the blanding of FM formats on NYC radio.

Radio is "one for many". It can't be the same as your personal playlist of favorites. But it is convenient, easy to use and over 85% of Americans do just that every week.

 

[davideduardo]

Maybe an adjustment to a more adult Rnb sound completely? I'd not resort to retooling like that just yet, but maybe a more direct attack on BLS ultimately is the way to go.

I just picked on of your points to show that the situation is more complex.

If you do more pure R&B, you immediately lose most Hispanics. The good example here is that Classic R&B stations (Urban Gold) tend to have about 95% Black cume listeners. They have few Hispanics.

The coverage area for this station is, in fact, much more Hispanic than Black. If they leaned away from music that attracts Hispanics, they would do worse. They have to use the formula employed in other markets where Hispanics are the larger group and try to be rhythmic with broad Hispanic, non-Hispanic white and Black appeal.

NYC has about 50% more Hispanics than Blacks, and is only about 40% non-Hispanic white. You can see even with this small piece of data where a format concept is headed. Add in the composition of the part of the market served by a limited signal, and you have your choices narrowed considerably.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

NYC has about 50% more Hispanics than Blacks, and is only about 40% non-Hispanic white. You can see even with this small piece of data where a format concept is headed. Add in the composition of the part of the market served by a limited signal, and you have your choices narrowed considerably.

AllAccess provides these numbers on their Neilsen ratings page for Market #1 - New York

Population: 16,110,500
Black: 2,682,700 (17%)
Hispanic: 4,092,600 (25%)

If 40% of 16,110,500 is non-Hispanic white, the number should be 6,444,200.

That would leave 2,891,000 as "Other" (18%)

Is that correct?

 

[davideduardo]

AllAccess provides these numbers on their Neilsen ratings page for Market #1 - New York


If 40% of 16,110,500 is non-Hispanic white, the number should be 6,444,200.

That would leave 2,891,000 as "Other" (18%)

Is that correct?

Roughly. Most of that is Asian, but Nielsen does not break "Asian" out... and there will be a percentage that self-identifies as some blend, mix or combination as well as people who insist that "Hispanic" is a race.

My data is 0+, and Nielsen in PPM markets breaks out 6+ only, so there will be a lesser 6+ number for non-Hispanic whites as their family size has declined rather severely in recent decades.

 

[dcowboy7]

They play it conservative, rightfully wait for the chr Z100 to take the chances on new songs to see which are hits, but the obvious ones like Sam Smith and Taylor they jump on with the quick assent to power.

The Roosevelt Remix of Taylors "Anti-Hero" is awesome.

 

[DOB]

I just picked on of your points to show that the situation is more complex.

If you do more pure R&B, you immediately lose most Hispanics. The good example here is that Classic R&B stations (Urban Gold) tend to have about 95% Black cume listeners. They have few Hispanics.

The coverage area for this station is, in fact, much more Hispanic than Black. If they leaned away from music that attracts Hispanics, they would do worse. They have to use the formula employed in other markets where Hispanics are the larger group and try to be rhythmic with broad Hispanic, non-Hispanic white and Black appeal.

NYC has about 50% more Hispanics than Blacks, and is only about 40% non-Hispanic white. You can see even with this small piece of data where a format concept is headed. Add in the composition of the part of the market served by a limited signal, and you have your choices narrowed considerably.

I totally understand what you are saying and I agree with you.
For a long time there have been Rnb songs that define an urban ac station, songs that the almost completely adult African American audience of those stations love the most and expect to hear on an urban ac. These songs don't really have any appeal outside of black adults and that's why successful urban ac stations have 92 to 96% of their listening from those black adults that are their target audience.
Before I let go from Maze is used many times as an example because Black adults love that song, it would show up at the top in music tests, but that song is was unfamiliar or not liked by Hispanics and whites. There's always some exceptions, that goes without saying, but for an urban ac that song was a must play with good spins because they super serve the listener who loves it.

What I meant was the 'rnb' songs that are consensus hits for blacks, Hispanics and even whites too. These songs include melodic songs that are 'rap' and have a very catchy strong hook that is 'rnb singing' where most people who were kids or young adults when they first came out and topped the charts are able to sing along to those hooks, the 'rap' part not so much.

The good thing is that in New York you can find a few more of these songs for the throwback station thanks to market history.
No, it's not the easiest task of correlating a strong list of them and then using them the right way in the playlist. And I mainly see them working best by being strategically placed in the music logs especially in middays.

 

[DOB]

Btw, if it's not clear, this is not some drastic changes to the Block by any means, just simply a little fine tuning that's carefully integrated as to not mess with what they have already but to keep those listeners happy by delivering their expectations and also take a little bit of more WBLS listening time.
It's not outrageous or impossible, you can listen to a strong Urban AC and hear some 'rap', melodic hits, that just a few years ago those stations would never touch, now they are important parts of their playlist so that they keep their mean age listener in demo. A throwback back station can and should be all about those songs too.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

Herb Kent in Chicago would at times play songs that were not technically R&B but were well loved by his audience on his Classic R&B shows. His last station, WVAZ (V103) still plays those songs when they play Classic R&B on the weekends. A Horse With No Name by America is one I remember hearing.