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Perhaps Entercom (who is new to owning a station in Miami) is about to discover what CBS already learned about alternative in South Florida, and what other owners learned about alternative in NYC.
In other words, no one actually KNOWS if Miami can support an alternative station. We're all about to find out.
We have no idea whether Miami can support an Alternative station... it just went on the air yesterday. And the chances are that, with over 70% of the market being ethnic, it will not do particularly well.
Both times they had alternative rock stations they flipped to Spanish, the last being 2005. Alternative rock today is more like mainstream pop so it might be do better this time around. I think that is why it was so easy for WWFS to run so many 6 month old charting alternative songs to their playlist. It seems to be working for them with their recent bump in the ratings coinciding with this change.
I suspect for the Miami station the ratings will be there at least for that english language demographic niche no one is filling.
I suspect for the Miami station the ratings will be there at least for that english language demographic niche no one is filling.
Well,if the first ratings book for WSFS are any indication, it's gonna be a rough road for Entercom in Miami.
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decades40
Guest
Don't use the term ethnic, what you should say is Hispanic, you know the culture that will not embrace English, so radio, television, and everything else has to revert to their way of living....bottom line.
You'd think, though, that third and fourth generations would be like the third and fourth generations of other ethnicities and embrace other musical genres. Plenty of rock fans are Italian-American, Irish-American, Greek-American, Russian-American, Japanese-American, Chinese-American. They're not all listening exclusively to music produced in, or in the styles of, their great-grandparents' homeland. The old jigs and horas and whatever other ethnic dance music forms are only dragged out at weddings that great-grandma and her friends are present for. Why should Americans with roots in Latin American countries or Puerto Rico be different? Are their brains hard-wired to respond only to Latino rhythms and lyrics, no matter how long ago their family actually lived in Latin America? That can't be, because that would be a racist theory, right? So what's the answer, David? Not enough third- and fourth-generation Hispanics in the population yet?
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decades40
Guest
You hit the nail on the head, summed up great, he won't respond because its out of his rant, or he will use some ten dollar terms that mean nothing. Like you said, all other ethnics have accepted the American way with music and everything else. Why does this particular ethnic have to have it there way and be catered to, there are stations flipping to Hispanic every damn day. Soon the American radio dial with be 50 percent English and 50 percent Spanish. If this is so right Mr. E. then why the hell aren't there stations catering to all the European peoples. You mentioned earlier in one of your bias responses that Italians had their station in NYC, correct but where is it now, its gone not needed because Italian Americans adapted to English with music and other things, same with the Jewish, German, Polish, Irish NYC signals, all gone, but the Hispanic formats are out of control gaining every day. In certain parts of Florida if you turn on the radio dial you might think you were in Mexico City, disgrace, you want to preserve your culture, leave it inside your living quarters, don't force it on others. I still cannot get a straight answer on why this is happening, nobody knows why but acknowledge its not right...
We're radio people, not sociologists. If there's a big audience of people who want programming in a certain language, we give it to them, so we can sell their numbers to advertisers. That's pretty much where our obligation ends. Our radio programming isn't going to change peoples' behavior.
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decades40
Guest
There was/is just as big if not bigger audience for the European peoples back 50 years ago, especially the Germans who still have the largest ethnic in the country. Why did all their stations go away, I don't buy it, its more then advertising its something else, maybe its called making a certain group ready for takeover(call me crazy). I remember a story about some Mexican problems in California a few years back, and the Hispanic stations were informing them to destroy and take over in their language, makes a lot of sense and no I am not imitating Donald. This country will get what it deserves, catering to this certain group will only cause destruction of the once great radio dial, look at the dial now, no rock but plenty of si habla espaneol' and more on the way. Check out history, how do you take out a country first gain control of the radio dial...
Your problem is a lot bigger than radio programming. Don't blame radio for sociology. We didn't make people the way they are. Check out history. If people don't like what's on the radio, they change to something else.
You need help for your paranoia and education for your ignorance.
First, the major German migrations were during the last half of the 19th Century. By about 1880, the largest migrant group was Italian, a situation that lasted until W.W. II broke out. And before the Germans, it was Ireland that was dominating the migration to the new nation of the United States.
As each group... Gaelic speakers, German speakers, Italian speakers, got into and beyond the third generation, the use of their parents' and grandparents' languages was nearly gone save for a few words and expressions.
Same happens with Hispanics. Nationally, less than half of the 50 million Hispanics are what is called "Spanish Dominant" and a large percentage only speak English. The same thing is happening with Hispanics and Asians today as happend with those other groups in the past.
50 years ago was about when the few Italian language (WOV, WHOM, etc) and other European language stations switched to Engiish. By the mid-60's, there were so few native Italian and German speakers as to make broadcasting to them in those languages unprofitable. We did get, though, a few Polish language stations, one or two in Portuguese, and quite a few that had blocks of a few hours a week for the other groups that had arrived later... such as Hungarians. But your assertion that 50 years ago there was a large group of European language speakers is wrong. Oh, by the way, Spanish is a European language.
"Some Mexican problems in California a few years ago" rings no bells in my memory. Since I was programming or responsible for programming of a group of stations that broadcast in Spanish in markets like San Diego, Los Angeles, Fresno and San Francisco, I think I would have remembered "some Mexican problems" and certainly would remember stations taking to the air to tell people to "destroy and take over".
It just ain't so, and your facts are as wrong as your assumptions.
Yes, on several occasions radio personalities and Hispanic leaders have organized peaceful demonstrations to request changes in immigration policy or to protest things like Proposition 187 (over 20 years ago now) but there has never been a large demonstration in which a radio station or radio personality has advocated anything other than working within the system to make their wishes known to Washington and local political leaders.
Oh, and I've lived in a number of countries and worked in about 20 different nations and I have never seen a nation taken over by "gain(ing) control of the radio dial.
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But Miami is not 70% Hispanic. It is 70% ethnic, which is what I wrote.
Miami is 50% Hispanic and 20% African American. Neither group has much of a liking for Alternative rock.
Oh, and in the Miami MSA, only 55% of Hispanics are Spanish dominant, despite the fact that the market only started to have a significan Hispanic population just 60 years ago, and there is still a large inflow of migrants from Latin America that bolsters the "Spanish dominant" numbers.
Fully 45% of Miami Hispanics are now bilingual or English dominant. That's very fast assimilation... faster than the Italians or the Germans or any other group from the past.
For the most part, they do. Look at Albuquerque, where less than 15% of Hispanics are Spanish dominant. The mostly third, fourth, fifth and even 10th and 12th generation Hispanics listen to rock and country and smooth jazz and everything else. The listening to the couple of Spanish language stations is mostly by first generation Hispanics and nobody else.
I think Jerry García like rock quite a bit.
In general, first generation arrivals will always listen to Spanish language radio. Second generation will listen a little, but more likely to English radio. By the third generation, their listening is as diverse as that of any other Americans.
If a person migrates at age 18 as is typical for Hispanics from Mexico and Central America, they will retain their musical and language preferences their whole life... maybe another 50 or so years. So you have the massive migrations of the 80's up until the start of the recession all looking for media in Spanish and music in Spanish... but their children, some of whom are now in their 30's, are going to be bilingual. And their kids will be pure English speakers.
In 1970, the Hispanic population int he US was about 9 million. Today, it is estimated at 55 million (ACS, the annual Census-based update). There will be 25 to 30 million Spanish dominants here for decades to come. And that alone is a huge media market... nearly 10% of the total population.
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decades40
Guest
As usual, you dance around the original question and situation...WHY ARE MORE HISPANIC FORMATS POPPING UP WHEN THESE SO CALLED PEOPLES YOU SAY ARE ENGLISH FLUENT AND ACCEPT AMERICAN WAYS, then they should accept English formats instead of full time Hispanic, but they never will they just want their language. You either are bull headed or just don't get it. You stated the other European ethnics converted to English so there unique formats went away, THEN WHY THE HELL ISN'T THE HISPANIC FORMATS GOING AWAY INSTEAD OF BECOMING MORE RELEVANT ON THE DIAL, there were never as many Italian or German stations like there are Hispanic, there may of been 10 at most compared to over 10,000 Hispanic do your research and the number increases every day. Reason, because what you say is wrong and what I said is correct. I am through with a closed minded individual like you my conclusions speak volumes...
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K.M. Richards
Guest
So even with that influx, that means only 27.5% (55% of 50%) of the market is predominantly Spanish-speaking. Doesn't sound like the crisis "decades40" makes it out to be, so I vote with David on the diagnosis of paranoia.
No, I will just use unbiased facts... something your posts are drearily lacking in.
Stations change to Spanish language formats ("Hispanic" is a cultural group, not a format) because there is money to be make by the owners. When there is no money to be made, such as the case for several Spanish language stations in places like Phoenix, Albuquerque, San Antonio and others of recent, there may be Spanish language stations going back to English.
No, it won't. At present, there are about 1000 Spanish language stations out of 15,000 total stations, exclusive of translators and LPFMs. The number has grown very little in the last 5 to 8 years, as the recession has pretty much made the growth of the Hispanic community from immigration come to a standstill.
I forget whether it was WOV or WHOM which switched from Italian last, but what happened is that by the late 50's there were so few first generation Italians in New York that there was no longer a market. The big wave of Italian immigrants ended just before W.W. II, so those native speakers would have been around 70 years old or more by the late 50's. And the second generation, just like Hispanic second generationals today, was listening to English language radio (and TV).
Your ignorance of History seems to be what causes you to post these absurd comparisons. Just look at when the different groups came to the US, and you will see when media in their native language ceases to be relevant.
Yiddish is not a language of a nationality, but of a group of peoples from several nations in north-central Europe. The speakers came when things got unbearable at home... starting pretty much after W.W. II. The immigrants tended to be older, and by the 50's and early 60's, the pure Yiddish speakers were gone. The German migrants came in the mid-late 19th century, and did not have a fulltime radio voice in New York. The Polish speakers were few, but we still have some all-Polish radio in Chicago and around NYC because many Poles came after the Second World War. But, again, the first generation is leaving us and there is less and less audience left.
I don't know where there has ever been a Gaelic language station in the US, but there have been a few Gaelic radio shows. But most Irish came in the early Nineteenth Century and were fully assimilated within a generation... and most did not speak Gaelic anyway.
The current economic situation in America's colony, Puerto Rico, has forced over a half-million residents of the Island to move away. Most have come to Florida. They are US Citizens by birth, and retailers, marketers and other advertisers really want their business. Add in the influx of Venezuelans and Ecuadorians, fleeing the Socialist regimes at home, has brought more immigrants... most with lots and lots of money to invest.
There is nothing unusual happening. Just as people of different taste groups pick between different kinds of radio formats, persons of different heritage can do the same because station owners and marketers want the opportunity to reach this large and still under-served public.
Here is a good example of this:
Miami 12+ (average of this year's books)
Shares of all Spanish language stations combined: 26%
Percentage of the market that is Hispanic in 12+: 55%
So half of the Hispanics are listening to English language radio.
Once again, David is spot on. The Hispanic community is ever changing. The submarkets have moved towards a Dominican labor while others have gone more Mexican and I am as in Miami it has gone more Venezuelan. Even the music style Latin CHR stations sounds more like a hip-hop station then a traditional Hispanic format. Proof that there is assimulation happening.
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