Observation after the Los Angeles Talk Ratings Appears

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

No, I'm not going to slam Air America, or liberal talk, etc.

But I do have this observation after seeing both the 12+ and the 25-54 numbers for Limbaugh and Franken.

Yes Limbaugh beat Franken in the overalls and in the demo (25-54). In fact, Franken barely registered in demo.

So here's my question: It was widely believed (even touted) that liberal talk would cater more to younger people and draw them more to talk radio than stodgy conservative talk which supposedly caters to older people.

So, if that is the case, why is Al Franken, as an example, getting sub-1.0 numbers in demo, but has a rating north of 1.0 overall, which takes into account older listeners (i.e., those over 55)? Where are the young people?

This isn't an indictment of anything--I just thought it was interesting that the revolution in talk radio (as lib talk has been touted) is falling into the general belief in re: talk radio.

As a comparison, Limbaugh is getting almost 2x as many listeners overall than he is in demo, mostly older listeners.

 

[Jim_Hicks]

Overlooked is the fact that moderates or liberals in the 25-54 demo are not really into political talk radio. They often don't want to hear newscasts, let alone 3 hours of political rantings. Their brand of talk is Howard Stern, O&A and others of that genre. To get their attention, talk has to be entertaining first, news content second. Rush uses the same approach. He lures listeners with his antics and keeps them long enough to preach to them.

Remember, this is the same age demo that dominates the AC audience. And they become angry when AC stations air even a minute of news per hour during afternoon drive. Once the main shock of 9/11 wore off, many AC stations continued to air one-minute news breaks during the PM drive. Listeners complained loudly. They are either into conservative talk or they just want music. And judging by the ratings for NYC and Los Angeles, there really aren't many of that demo into talk at all.


> No, I'm not going to slam Air America, or liberal talk, etc.
>
>
> But I do have this observation after seeing both the 12+ and
> the 25-54 numbers for Limbaugh and Franken.
>
> Yes Limbaugh beat Franken in the overalls and in the demo
> (25-54). In fact, Franken barely registered in demo.
>
> So here's my question: It was widely believed (even touted)
> that liberal talk would cater more to younger people and
> draw them more to talk radio than stodgy conservative talk
> which supposedly caters to older people.
>
> So, if that is the case, why is Al Franken, as an example,
> getting sub-1.0 numbers in demo, but has a rating north of
> 1.0 overall, which takes into account older listeners (i.e.,
> those over 55)? Where are the young people?
>
> This isn't an indictment of anything--I just thought it was
> interesting that the revolution in talk radio (as lib talk
> has been touted) is falling into the general belief in re:
> talk radio.
>
> As a comparison, Limbaugh is getting almost 2x as many
> listeners overall than he is in demo, mostly older
> listeners.
>

 

[tbetz]

> So, if that is the case, why is Al Franken, as an example,
> getting sub-1.0 numbers in demo, but has a rating north of
> 1.0 overall, which takes into account older listeners (i.e.,
> those over 55)? Where are the young people?

How many of them even know that KTLK exists?

From what I'd heard, (other than Franken's remotes from L.A.) CC hasn't done any promotion to speak of. Has this changed recently?

And Franken's "Arthur Godfrey with a bris" style, as much as I love listening to it, is not exactly a style that would stimulate your average youth.

I'd be more interested in Garofalo's numbers against John Ziegler and Al Rantel's last hour. "The Majority Report" is the AAR program that has actually registered on younger demos (even 18-34!) elsewhere.<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>

 

[dampier]

> Overlooked is the fact that moderates or liberals in the
> 25-54 demo are not really into political talk radio. They
> often don't want to hear newscasts, let alone 3 hours of
> political rantings. Their brand of talk is Howard Stern,
> O&A and others of that genre.

Uh... you are speaking only of men that fall into the Man Show demo. Women are not interested in Stern or O&A. Further, I know of only a handful of guy friends who are interested in Stern or O&A. A lot of guys spend their time with their iPods and skip radio altogether, but when there is buzz for a good talk show, they will listen. Right now, however, that's Garofalo who has had a counter-traditional culture vibe for years.

> Remember, this is the same age demo that dominates the AC
> audience. And they become angry when AC stations air even a
> minute of news per hour during afternoon drive. Once the
> main shock of 9/11 wore off, many AC stations continued to
> air one-minute news breaks during the PM drive. Listeners
> complained loudly.

I have a hard time believing most listeners would even bother to call a station. If they don't like something, they flip the dial. News isn't the issue - the massive commercial dump load is.

BTW, Rush's demo is the classic angry, white, middle age and up male. These are the AM listeners anyway, so no surprise he drew them in. Outside of the Young Republican Club, you aren't going to find a huge youth audience for Rush either.

Stephanie Miller has a shot with a younger audience. She has some street cred having worked for rock radio (our own WCMF), much the same way Randi Rhodes has. The former is far funnier, however.

The first trick with attracting a youth audience is helping them discover there is something called AM radio.

 

[Jay_F]

> No, I'm not going to slam Air America, or liberal talk, etc.
>
>
> But I do have this observation after seeing both the 12+ and
> the 25-54 numbers for Limbaugh and Franken.
>
> Yes Limbaugh beat Franken in the overalls and in the demo
> (25-54). In fact, Franken barely registered in demo.
>
> So here's my question: It was widely believed (even touted)
> that liberal talk would cater more to younger people and
> draw them more to talk radio than stodgy conservative talk
> which supposedly caters to older people.
>
> So, if that is the case, why is Al Franken, as an example,
> getting sub-1.0 numbers in demo, but has a rating north of
> 1.0 overall, which takes into account older listeners (i.e.,
> those over 55)? Where are the young people?
>
> This isn't an indictment of anything--I just thought it was
> interesting that the revolution in talk radio (as lib talk
> has been touted) is falling into the general belief in re:
> talk radio.
>
> As a comparison, Limbaugh is getting almost 2x as many
> listeners overall than he is in demo, mostly older
> listeners.
>



I think that it's a misconception that young adults are liberal. Maybe they were in the hippie era,but not today. I don't think they are conservative either. There are many individual exceptions, but I would say Generation X and younger is politically apathetic. They have minimal interest in anything political and will not listen to political discussions on the radio no matter what the angle.

This makes me realize just how out of the mainstream I am compared to my Gen X counterparts. I became a big talk radio fan in my early teens and the more political the talk was the more interesting it was to me. I would say politics is one of my top 10 overall interests in life. I have been listening to talk radio for over a quarter of a century and I STILL am far younger than the average talk radio listener.

I wonder if my generation will become more interested in poltical topics as they age? I don't think so, they have no foundation or entry level knowledge of the subject to begin with. This means talk radio will eventually have to move away from political issues. However lifestyle "fluff and puff" talk radio is famous for poor ratings and I don't think that will change. So talk radio will really have a challenge in the years to come as the apathetic generations age.

 

[radiophile]

> I think that it's a misconception that young adults are
> liberal. Maybe they were in the hippie era,but not today. I
> don't think they are conservative either. There are many
> individual exceptions, but I would say Generation X and
> younger is politically apathetic. They have minimal interest
> in anything political and will not listen to political
> discussions on the radio no matter what the angle.

As a late Boomer, I may agree with the latter part of your statement (apathy). However: People 18-29 is the only age bracket that John Kerry won against George Bush.

 

[gr8oldies]

If someone gave it the time and resources (such as WLW in the early 80s), a new crop of hosts that appeal to younger listeners could be developed..but, it could well be, their politics would be centrist to right more that conspiratorial-left. Once people get jobs, get into marriages and sometimes divorces, become parents and what have you, of ten that liberal bent of youth changes as time and circumstances change. I believe most of the 18-24's are getting their liberalism from MTV.<P ID="signature">______________
Soon to set the world record for recieving Nigerian scam and phising e-mails!</P>

 

[robbbc]

> If someone gave it the time and resources (such as WLW in
> the early 80s), a new crop of hosts that appeal to younger
> listeners could be developed..but, it could well be, their
> politics would be centrist to right more that
> conspiratorial-left. Once people get jobs, get into
> marriages and sometimes divorces, become parents and what
> have you, of ten that liberal bent of youth changes as time
> and circumstances change. I believe most of the 18-24's are
> getting their liberalism from MTV.
>

Back when young Americans were afraid of being drafted into war, especially educated middle class kids, they were more interested in politics. MTV is not the cultural phenomenon it was back in the 80s and early 90s. I doubt any young people get their politics from MTV anymore. Comedy Central: more likely.

 

[Jay_F]

> > I think that it's a misconception that young adults are
> > liberal. Maybe they were in the hippie era,but not today.
> I
> > don't think they are conservative either. There are many
> > individual exceptions, but I would say Generation X and
> > younger is politically apathetic. They have minimal
> interest
> > in anything political and will not listen to political
> > discussions on the radio no matter what the angle.
>
> As a late Boomer, I may agree with the latter part of your
> statement (apathy). However: People 18-29 is the only age
> bracket that John Kerry won against George Bush.
>


True, but 18-29 also had the lowest voter turnout of any age group. This was despite efforts such as "Rock the vote" and "Vote or die". Lots of pundits were surprised at how low the turnout was in this age group, much lower than they expected.

 

[NewsVet]

> The first trick with attracting a youth audience is helping
> them discover there is something called AM radio.

Absolutely. Or better yet, putting libtalk on FM. Most young people don't venture onto the AM band, if they even HAVE an AM band. Look at the portable devices that have built-in radios -- all have FM, but few have AM. Progressive talk is doing well in Madison, Wisc. on FM -- and yes, I know it's a liberal town, but libtalk is not doing nearly as well in other liberal towns where it's on AM.

 

[MattNC]

> True, but 18-29 also had the lowest voter turnout of any age
> group. This was despite efforts such as "Rock the vote" and
> "Vote or die". Lots of pundits were surprised at how low the
> turnout was in this age group, much lower than they
> expected.
>

They had the lowest turnout, but it was still up quite a bit, as was the case with every other age group.

 

[OldAkronite]

> This isn't an indictment of anything--I just thought it was
> interesting that the revolution in talk radio (as lib talk
> has been touted) is falling into the general belief in re:
> talk radio.

Some of this started when WLIB/New York, Air America's flagship, got its first ratings...and did "surprisingly well" in sub-35 demos.

However, it has not been proven (as far as I know) that this was an overall trend in other markets for libtalk, or even in successive ratings books in NYC for WLIB/AAR.

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> > This isn't an indictment of anything--I just thought it
> was
> > interesting that the revolution in talk radio (as lib talk
>
> > has been touted) is falling into the general belief in re:
>
> > talk radio.
>
> Some of this started when WLIB/New York, Air America's
> flagship, got its first ratings...and did "surprisingly
> well" in sub-35 demos.
>
> However, it has not been proven (as far as I know) that this
> was an overall trend in other markets for libtalk, or even
> in successive ratings books in NYC for WLIB/AAR.
>
> -OA
>

True, but the "young folks" has been touted here, and in liberal blog outlets, as the defining difference between conservative talk and the up-and-coming "progressive" talk: lib talk will get the young people because conservative talk only does well with older (white male) people.

I was just pointing out that it appears that ALL talk radio--regardless of political persuasion--has more older fans (evid., does better in overalls) than it has younger advertiser-favored fans (evid., demos).

 

[Scribbler]

New York ratings

> But I do have this observation after seeing both the 12+ and
> the 25-54 numbers for Limbaugh and Franken.
> So, if that is the case, why is Al Franken, as an example,
> getting sub-1.0 numbers in demo, but has a rating north of
> 1.0 overall, which takes into account older listeners (i.e.,
> those over 55)? Where are the young people?

I'm looking at a press release from Premiere("Rush Limbaugh Rules New York City") and see that in the NYC market Franken has about the same share in the overall numbers as he does in the 25-54 demo, while Limbaugh does MUCH worse in that demo than he does overall.

In fact, in the demo, Limbaugh only beats Franken by less than a share point, despite the fact that Franken is on a puny signal and Limbaugh is on a flamethrower. Franken also continues to beat O'Reilly in the demo (they're opposite each other for one hour). <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Scribbler on 07/22/05 12:55 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[bigtalkradiofan]

Two quick points:

1.) I think the best way to look at the politics of young people (I define as high school, college, and just out of college) - is to look at what they do during the day.

* They care about education issues (since many spend their days in high school or college, or they have a desire to someday go to college).
* They somewhat care about the minimum wage and low-wage work, because they do low-wage work. But they may not care deeply about these issues - because they don't intend to stay in these jobs long.
* They care about the cost of gasoline - because they don't own houses, so their cars are their most expensive possession.
* They care about beer, parties (and some other substances) because this is what they do after their school-day and low-wage work.
* They are interested in the Entertainment industry - because they spend a significant chunk of their free time engaged in Entertainment industry activities - going to concerts, buying CDs, watching movies, etc.

Does this make them - conservative or liberal, no (only a small group is usually are heavily-identified with a political party). Rather, they are young people - who "a la carte" pick and choose which issues from the two dominant political paradigms they agree with (and which they disagree with).

2.) The last time I looked at the Talk and News/Talk ratings and demographics - I saw two upticks in the trends: the numbers were low until around the 30-40 age group(when they reached a 9 or 10, I think), then a drop-off from 40-55 (a 5 or 6, I think), and then an surge again around 55 and above (around a 20).

So the 30-40 range might be when young people finally start to become politically active (they start getting real jobs, houses, familes, etc.) A drop-off in the 40's and early 50's - maybe too busy, or disillusionment, who knows. And then a re-activation in the late 50s - when they have time to listen and lots of life experiences.




> > If someone gave it the time and resources (such as WLW in
> > the early 80s), a new crop of hosts that appeal to younger
>
> > listeners could be developed..but, it could well be, their
>
> > politics would be centrist to right more that
> > conspiratorial-left. Once people get jobs, get into
> > marriages and sometimes divorces, become parents and what
> > have you, of ten that liberal bent of youth changes as
> time
> > and circumstances change. I believe most of the 18-24's
> are
> > getting their liberalism from MTV.
> >
>
> Back when young Americans were afraid of being drafted into
> war, especially educated middle class kids, they were more
> interested in politics. MTV is not the cultural phenomenon
> it was back in the 80s and early 90s. I doubt any young
> people get their politics from MTV anymore. Comedy Central:
> more likely.
>

 

[PW]

> > True, but 18-29 also had the lowest voter turnout of any
> age
> > group. This was despite efforts such as "Rock the vote"
> and
> > "Vote or die". Lots of pundits were surprised at how low
> the
> > turnout was in this age group, much lower than they
> > expected.
> >
>
> They had the lowest turnout, but it was still up quite a
> bit, as was the case with every other age group.
>

Yeah, but now aren't all of the ones who didn't vote dead?

(I think that's what Bo Diddley said would happen.)