October los angeles PPM's

[TheBigA]

The problem with any rock format is that the market is now about 80% ethnic and foreign born. There is nothing in the rock arena that will appeal to anything significant... in LA, rock is the new country, format wise. Niche, fading and with no future potential.

And yet somehow KLOS is doing pretty well. It helps they're the only station in the format. Back when they had competition, it was tougher.

 

[davideduardo]

And yet somehow KLOS is doing pretty well. It helps they're the only station in the format. Back when they had competition, it was tougher.

But they are a 3-share station. And there is no room, as proven, for another station. Just as Alt has less than half the total shares the format had just 20 years ago.

 

[TheBigA]

Just as Alt has less than half the total shares the format had just 20 years ago.

Some of it is population shift, and some of it is device shift, as fans of that music prefer to create their own playlists or listen to more narrowly formatted online stations.

Kevin & Bean were fortunate to have lived at a time when the music they played was very good, and the medium they were on had a lot of usage. Not any more.

 

[davideduardo]

Some of it is population shift, and some of it is device shift, as fans of that music prefer to create their own playlists or listen to more narrowly formatted online stations.

But fans of many types of music also create their own playlists. I don't think the margin of difference with Alt is that much greater than, say, reggaetón. High tide floats all ships.

Kevin & Bean were fortunate to have lived at a time when the music they played was very good, and the medium they were on had a lot of usage. Not any more.

And they sustained a dying format because they were better than the music. When the team split, KROQ sunk to the level of the music, which had declined. And the new competitor fragged the smaller slice so that two stations could not co-exist in the market.

 

[MarkW]

Re:

L.A. has supported two classic or heritage rock stations simultaneously for the better part of the last 30 years. KLOS is almost perfectly positioned music wise given the current dynamics of the market. KROQ's deflation and pivot away from guitar-based alt rock has definitely helped KLOS. The decision to play a current or recurrent every 90 minutes or so and to devote, say, 20 percent of spins to songs from the 90's has helped KLOS's cause, in my opinion. Their playlist is shuffled well enough to give the station a somewhat unpredictable feel, too.

97.1's roots are as a male-oriented station, first as a classic rocker and then as an FM hot talker.

A replacement format doesn't necessarily have to be rock. FM sports may be worth of a look if decent play-by-play rights can be grabbed.

Given the demographics of the region, a format geared to a Spanish-speaking audience is worthy of serious consideration, too.

Part of me also wonders if KNX 1070 should be simulcast on FM, but I think the above proposals are better ones than that idea.

I am inclined to believe multiple options would be an improvement over the ratings disaster currently found at 97.1.

 

[TheBigA]

KROQ's deflation and pivot away from guitar-based alt rock has definitely helped KLOS. The decision to play a current or recurrent every 90 minutes or so and to devote, say, 20 percent of spins to songs from the 90's has helped KLOS's cause, in my opinion.

I don't know where you get the idea that KROQ was ever a classic rock station.

 

[davideduardo]

L.A. has supported two classic or heritage rock stations simultaneously for the better part of the last 30 years. KLOS is almost perfectly positioned music wise given the current dynamics of the market. KROQ's deflation and pivot away from guitar-based alt rock has definitely helped KLOS. The decision to play a current or recurrent every 90 minutes or so and to devote, say, 20 percent of spins to songs from the 90's has helped KLOS's cause, in my opinion. Their playlist is shuffled well enough to give the station a somewhat unpredictable feel, too.

The KROQ change has helped KYSR a bit, but it's not noticeable with KLOS. KLOS got a kiss when its direct competitor went to K-Love (the religious one), dumping most of its listening on the survivor. We never saw much sharing between KLOS and KROQ... they are very different subsets of rock.

97.1's roots are as a male-oriented station, first as a classic rocker and then as an FM hot talker.

Nobody remembers what was on a particular frequency two decades or so ago.

A replacement format doesn't necessarily have to be rock. FM sports may be worth of a look if decent play-by-play rights can be grabbed.

The significant rights holders in LA are the teams themselves. They either buy the time or they associate with a station, like the shared ownership of KLAC. It's really unlikely that any station could put together a football-basketball-baseball trifecta in LA.

Given the demographics of the region, a format geared to a Spanish-speaking audience is worthy of serious consideration, too.

That option is already saturated. Remember that about 50% of LA Hispanics are English dominant, and so even in 18-49, there are only about 25 to 28 shares available. There is no format hole, and some formats are duplicated: Regional Mexican, including an OC station, has 4 FM services, reggaetón / CHR has two, and there are adult hits, pop oldies, regional oldies, sports and talk outlets, too.

Part of me also wonders if KNX 1070 should be simulcast on FM, but I think the above proposals are better ones than that idea.

All news, even on FM, in the sunbelt, is a tough format. Look at the FM fails in Atlanta and Houston. And it is ancient demographically.

I am inclined to believe multiple options would be an improvement over the ratings disaster currently found at 97.1.

The issue is whether they are going to spend on a format switch in the middle of the pandemic.

 

[Gregg.]

CBS and Entercom have given up their AMP Top 40 stations in a number of markets, most recently in Boston earlier this year, switching to a sort of Jack format on WODS. In NYC, it ended AMP 92.3, switching to Alternative. It did the same in Dallas with KVIL 103.7.

I'm sure Entercom would consider changing 97.1 to something else, except everything else it taken, other than Sports. Soft AC? That space is occupied by Entercom-owned 94.7 KTWV, a mix of Rhythmic AC and Soft AC. (I'm amazed at how far back The Wave goes in its playlist. It's still spinning a couple of Aretha and Temptations songs. And it's softer than most stations on the dial, still keeping some of the vocals it played as a Smooth Jazz outlet. Yet it's #2 in the current ratings.)

Maybe FM Talk again? Could there be a younger version of KFI, considering how good its ratings are? But that's expensive and so personality-driven.

Maybe Sports? As David has told us, Sports is a difficult format in a market where a significant number of young adult men don't use English as their first language and may not be that interested in sports other than soccer. Or maybe it's a Southern California thing, not that passionate about sports. Look at how bad the ratings are for Entercom's FM Sports station in nearby San Diego.

So if you can't figure out what to replace it with, might as well stay with Top 40 on KAMP.

 

[TheBigA]

Maybe FM Talk again? Could there be a younger version of KFI, considering how good its ratings are? But that's expensive and so personality-driven.

It's expensive, and it's really a 90s solution to a 21st century problem. In the 90s, young people didn't have chat rooms and social media, so talk radio was an outlet. Now they don't need it. If they want to spout off on a subject, there are places to do that. Morning drive shows handle the topics most young talk hosts would cover, and they also play music. So that covers two bases.

 

[Gregg.]

When I say younger than KFI, I don't mean Hot Talk or Howard Stern clones. I simply mean KFI skews quite old as David tells us. Despite its high ratings, its 25-54 numbers are poor.

But that leaves us with the Talk Radio dilemma. How do you aim younger but still sound responsible so you are not your father's KFI?

 

[TheBigA]

How do you aim younger but still sound responsible so you are not your father's KFI?

Lovelines. Sex, not politics.

 

[TheBigA]

There's some speculation that a very big format change will happen tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/radioinsight/status/1321973602535776258

Some of the speculation is aiming at Entercom.

Today, they announced a major partnership with a sports betting company.

https://radioink.com/2020/10/29/entercom-and-fanduel-partner/

Could that mean they need a sports radio station in market #2?

 

[Marcos_C]

As David has told us, Sports is a difficult format in a market where a significant number of young adult men don't use English as their first language and may not be that interested in sports other than soccer. Or maybe it's a Southern California thing, not that passionate about sports.

Well, that explains why KLAC ended up at number 26, with a 1.4 share, despite its play-by-play coverage of the Dodgers. The team had an outstanding season on the field; therefore, I was surprised to learn that more people weren't interested in listening to their games on the radio.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

How do you aim younger but still sound responsible so you are not your father's KFI?

Lovelines. Sex, not politics.

Because nothing says "responsible" like discussing disgusting sex acts (and the sometimes negative results therof) on the radio. Good Answer. Plus, as a bonus, a tremendously good use of our public airwaves. Win-Win, Amiright?

 

[TheBigA]

Because nothing says "responsible" like discussing disgusting sex acts (and the sometimes negative results therof) on the radio. Good Answer. Plus, as a bonus, a tremendously good use of our public airwaves. Win-Win, Amiright?

You obviously never listened to Loveline. It originated in 1983 on KROQ. Nothing disgusting about it at all. Very responsible.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

You obviously never listened to Loveline. It originated in 1983 on KROQ. Nothing disgusting about it at all. Very responsible.

I have indeed listened to it many times, including when I was a teenager in the 80s. There was no sex act or disgusting description that was not off the table, but everything was ok, because "Dr. Drew" was in the room to make it all adult and clinical-like. It was the radio equivalent of sex radio but like the adolescent-humor of "Meet the Fockers" (oohh, they say "Fockers", but they really mean... ahh, so clever) it is presented as something else.

I have no problem with sex radio, if that is what the public wants (Dr. Drew always said he was performing a "necessary" public health duty by dispensing all of this advice to those who otherwise couldn't get it. -- Uhh, yeah, sure, whatever you say Dr.), but the poster's question was about responsible talk radio.

 

[davideduardo]

Well, that explains why KLAC ended up at number 26, with a 1.4 share, despite its play-by-play coverage of the Dodgers. The team had an outstanding season on the field; therefore, I was surprised to learn that more people weren't interested in listening to their games on the radio.

Sports is usually not a ratings leader (unless you are in Philly or Boston, I guess).

Typical would be "#1 in revenue and #15 in 25-54 ratings". That, of course, was the case for many years for WFAN in NYC!

 

[CTListener]

Sports is usually not a ratings leader (unless you are in Philly or Boston, I guess).

Typical would be "#1 in revenue and #15 in 25-54 ratings". That, of course, was the case for many years for WFAN in NYC!

OK, so if the station that flips tomorrow or whenever is indeed KROQ, what do you see as the format with the best chance of increasing its revenue? This thread has been full of knockdowns of formats that won't work.

 

[MarkW]

Re:

I don't know where you get the idea that KROQ was ever a classic rock station.

That's not at all what I said; re-read what I wrote earlier. I described KROQ as a guitar-friendly alt rock station.

Here are the heritage rock / classic rock tandems over the years of which I am aware:
- KLSX and KLOS
- KLOS and KCBS
- KLOS and KSWD

I do agree that there is a decent chance one of Entercom's stations in La-La land will flip very soon. I'm guessing it will be 97.1. I would be very surprised if it were 106.7.

However, Radio-Insight is talking about a "shocking" format flip. Who knows if that rumor is true or not. A flip of 97.1 wouldn't be the least bit shocking. A flip at 106.7 would be somewhat shocking. Heck, why not change 'em both? In all seriousness, though, I'd give the changes at 106.7 a little more time to season before writing off the current strategy.

Other candidates for the rumored "shocking" flip:
- Power 96 in Miami (this is the most likely non-L.A. possibility, IMO)
- B96 in Chicago
- WUSN in Chicago
- KILT in Houston
- WIAD in Washington
- KLLC San Francisco
- KITS San Francisco (this one wouldn't be all that surprising)
- WOMC in Detroit (always strong in 6+ but a very inconsistent performer in Adults 25-54; historically a strong biller but I've not seen data in a long time)
- WEEI in Boston

 

[TheBigA]

Other candidates for the rumored "shocking" flip:

What about for KVIL Dallas?