Off topic - But I have a question

[cabradio]

Warning! This is not News/Talk related, or even Radio related, but watching you guys constantly go after each other makes me wonder:

Do other countries have mesage boards like this..(not radio specific, but conversational) ...where people are able to share and discuss their ideas about how their government should be run, or about how one ideology is better than another?

I'm asking because with the USA leading the free world (for now), I find it strange that so many of you get angry with each other for having opposing view points. We are blessed in this country to be able to have opposing views without consequence. We should be glad we are able to be dfferent. WIth the Patriot Act in full swing, we are slowly losing our Freedoms. Soon we will not be allowed to voice our Political/Religious views in public in order to maintain some strange idea of equality and safety.

Is it so hard to realize we are all different, and that NO ONE is 100% right? Is it hard to accept that each of us has something to offer, and through an open forum discussion like this we are able to find out what other people believe and what other people need and what other people want? We all don't WANT the same things except maybe for the freedom to be different, the freedom to choose....FREEDOM.

Living in this Country is like a marriage. It's about compremise. You have to give a little to get a little (no pun intended guys! LOL)...Anyway, all this ranting about how wrong and hypocritical Rush and Dr. Laura are, or how wrong AAR is beause the CEO (or whoever) alledgedly did something illegal...don't you all get it yet? We are all fallable, to err is human. We put our entertainers on pedestals and expect perfection. Even some of our Religious leaders have fallen. It's time we looked into our own hearts and instead of constantly pointing fingers and hailing "I told you so's"...how about finding a way to contribute something good to our society? Instead of finding ways to keep us divided, how about finding ways to stick together? Anybody know about the beattitudes?


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[bierkenstock]

Amen.

And maybe not so off-topic. This is level political discourse (almost any kind of discourse) has sunk to in this country. And I think talk radio (and talk TV) is at least partly to blame. Broadcasters have learned they get more attention generating heat rather than light. So we got Joe Pyne, then Rush, Hannity, Franken, Rhodes, et al. On TV, Point-Counterpoint ("Jane, you ignorant (BLEEP)") and then Cross-Fire. Most people don't care about politics. But this board attracts hard core fans of politics. Edwin O'Connor in "The Last Hurrah" called politics the number one sport in America. And hard core fans of politics, like those of other sports, have become very unsportsman like in their conduct and very one-sided. Our team is always right; their team is always wrong. Our runner is always safe; our pitcher always throws strikes. The other side is always out and always misses the strike zone. If the umpire says different, kill him. The sad thing is, I see no evidence the fans of either the left or right care about anything but "the game." Not about the issues. Not about people getting killed. Not about what some decision is going to mean in 10 years or 100 years. The format is called news-talk but it should be called "bar talk."

> Warning! This is not News/Talk related, or even Radio
> related, but watching you guys constantly go after each
> other makes me wonder:
>
> Do other countries have mesage boards like this..(not radio
> specific, but conversational) ...where people are able to
> share and discuss their ideas about how their government
> should be run, or about how one ideology is better than
> another?
>
> I'm asking because with the USA leading the free world (for
> now), I find it strange that so many of you get angry with
> each other for having opposing view points. We are blessed
> in this country to be able to have opposing views without
> consequence. We should be glad we are able to be dfferent.
> WIth the Patriot Act in full swing, we are slowly losing our
> Freedoms. Soon we will not be allowed to voice our
> Political/Religious views in public in order to maintain
> some strange idea of equality and safety.
>
> Is it so hard to realize we are all different, and that NO
> ONE is 100% right? Is it hard to accept that each of us has
> something to offer, and through an open forum discussion
> like this we are able to find out what other people believe
> and what other people need and what other people want? We
> all don't WANT the same things except maybe for the freedom
> to be different, the freedom to choose....FREEDOM.
>
> Living in this Country is like a marriage. It's about
> compremise. You have to give a little to get a little (no
> pun intended guys! LOL)...Anyway, all this ranting about how
> wrong and hypocritical Rush and Dr. Laura are, or how wrong
> AAR is beause the CEO (or whoever) alledgedly did something
> illegal...don't you all get it yet? We are all fallable, to
> err is human. We put our entertainers on pedestals and
> expect perfection. Even some of our Religious leaders have
> fallen. It's time we looked into our own hearts and instead
> of constantly pointing fingers and hailing "I told you
> so's"...how about finding a way to contribute something good
> to our society? Instead of finding ways to keep us divided,
> how about finding ways to stick together? Anybody know about
> the beattitudes?
>

 

[middlega]

Okay, you said it was "a question" in your subject line, so I'm interpreting that to be an invitation to respond.

Judging from the rest of your post, I doubt you're going to like my answer but that didn't appear to be a prerequisite for posting either

> ...how about finding a way to contribute something good
> to our society?

I really can't think of any greater contribution anyone could make to our society than finding a way to shut up & shut down the liberals for good ... and before anybody gets in an uproar about that bit of blunt honesty, I'm quite sure that the exact same thing could be said by any number of people by simply subsituting "conservative" for "liberal" ... and I'm okay with that, it's just people being honest. I prefer honesty to a lie, among other things, it makes it a lot easier to keep track of your friends & your enemies.

> Instead of finding ways to keep us divided, how about finding ways to stick >together?

The truth is, I don't really want to be "stuck together" with a lot of those who hold views diametrically opposed to mine ... because those views are often attached to goals opposite my own, ones that are often mutually exclusive. And no, I'm not particularly satisfied by the notion of "neither side is happy", especially not in situations where I believe it's a fight I/my side can ultimately win (I'm talking big picture here, not piddly squabbles on a message board that solve nothing).

The American Heritage Dictionary says
en·e·my n. pl. en·e·mies

1. One who feels hatred toward, intends injury to, or opposes the interests of another;

Notice that last possibility, one who _opposes the interests of another_.

That's the definition that I have firmly in place when I say that I consider many of the liberal elements in this country as "my enemy". Whether that's polite or not ... shrug ... it's the truth of the matter, and I really don't understand why that seems to be such a difficult bit of honesty for a lot of people to deal with. Pretending it isn't so, or twisting the definition into something more palatable or whatever bit of wordplay someone engages in does absolutely nothing to change the reality of the situation.

Also (adding this in out of sequence because it only caught my eye on a final read-through before posting) ...
>We are blessed in this country to be able to have opposing views without >consequence.

Depending upon what sort of consequence you mean, I might disagree with you, possibly VERY strongly. I don't consider it any sort of "blessing" that we seem to have developed some notion along the way that "Free Speech" = "Speech Without Consequence". Since I suspect that's about as clear as mud, here's what I mean:

You're welcome to say, for example, "the Earth is flat". That's free speech.

But I'm free to conclude that you're either ignorant or delusional or both, and decide (again for example) how I should relate to you. If you're a local shopkeeper, I may decide that you're so far out in left field that I don't really want to patronize you, and subsidize those flat-earth pamphlets you leave out on the counter. That's "Consequence of Free Speech".

And that's how it should work -- you're free to say it, but that doesn't mean it can be said without consequence.

I imagine it's pretty obvious this isn't the first time I've had this same general conversation, and I'm certainly not picking on you for asking the question, because it isn't something that's a unique topic for internet forums (i.e. you aren't alone in your wondering).

I just honestly don't understand why the display of the animosity is so disturbing to you, I believe it's an honest reflection of how the two sides feel about each other & that isn't something that is going to be changed by hiding it away. Far better, IMO, that we fight our fights to the best of our ability & let the chips fall than to waste energy trying do obscure & deny the truth of the relationship between the two groups.

 

[cabradio]

> Judging from the rest of your post, I doubt you're going to
> like my answer but that didn't appear to be a prerequisite
> for posting either

You're right, I disagree....but, I am glad you responded. It is an intelligent reply, unlike some others I get.

> The truth is, I don't really want to be "stuck together"
> with a lot of those who hold views diametrically opposed to
> mine ... because those views are often attached to goals
> opposite my own, ones that are often mutually exclusive.

This country was built on diverse cultures that came together to celebrate their differences and show the rest of the world that we can all survive and get along within the same borders.


> The American Heritage Dictionary says
> en·e·my n. pl. en·e·mies
>
> 1. One who feels hatred toward, intends injury to, or
> opposes the interests of another;
>
> Notice that last possibility, one who _opposes the interests
> of another_.
>
> That's the definition that I have firmly in place when I say
> that I consider many of the liberal elements in this country
> as "my enemy". Whether that's polite or not ... shrug ...
> it's the truth of the matter, and I really don't understand
> why that seems to be such a difficult bit of honesty for a
> lot of people to deal with. Pretending it isn't so, or
> twisting the definition into something more palatable or
> whatever bit of wordplay someone engages in does absolutely
> nothing to change the reality of the situation.


This is wherein the problem lies. It is ignorant to think that a liberal doesn't want the same things you do. With your point of view any religion other than yours (if you have one) should be exterminated. Should people of different colors be wiped off the Earth too, because they too might not want EXACTLY what you want or have the same goals you have. With your point of view there should be one Religion, one Economy, one Political POV. That is ignorant. Life would stagnate.

I have both liberal and conservative friends, who, for the most part, want the same things: A healthy family, a secure job, good friends, a stable economy, secure borders..etc. etc. There are very few things we want differently...I say for the most part because we are all different, and we are all at different points in our lives. Some people are youthful, in college...their goals are different than those of us in our 30's with families, and our goals are different from older adults in their 80's. The world is made up of different people. I am watching a show on the Discovery Channel about a little girl with no face...she was born with Treacher Collins Syndrome. You can't tell me the needs and goals of this little girl are or should be the same as my little girl's! Many are the same, yes...love, food, clothes, shelter, but there are other needs this little girl needs...health, extra love because people will treat her differently, etc.; usually it's people who think everything and everyone should look the same, think the same, want the same things and be treated the same way that mistreat the less fortunate. I'm not saying YOu do.,..just that it is the stereotype (Archie Bunker types come to mind)

> You're welcome to say, for example, "the Earth is flat".
> That's free speech.
>
> But I'm free to conclude that you're either ignorant or
> delusional or both, and decide (again for example) how I
> should relate to you. If you're a local shopkeeper, I may
> decide that you're so far out in left field that I don't
> really want to patronize you, and subsidize those flat-earth
> pamphlets you leave out on the counter. That's "Consequence
> of Free Speech".
>
> And that's how it should work -- you're free to say it, but
> that doesn't mean it can be said without consequence.
>

By "no consequence" I was talking about political or governmental...IOW, we are free to express ourselves...But yes, you are right, by doing so may cause an economic "attack", where people don't patronize your business. That's the chance you take.

> I just honestly don't understand why the display of the
> animosity is so disturbing to you, I believe it's an honest
> reflection of how the two sides feel about each other & that
> isn't something that is going to be changed by hiding it
> away. Far better, IMO, that we fight our fights to the best
> of our ability & let the chips fall than to waste energy
> trying do obscure & deny the truth of the relationship
> between the two groups.

I'm not suggesting obscuring the truth...I am suggesting finding better ways to get along, to meet in the middle. You can't have your cake and eat it too.






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[raccoonradio]

> Do other countries have mesage boards like this..(not radio
> specific, but conversational) ...where people are able to
> share and discuss their ideas about how their government
> should be run, or about how one ideology is better than
> another?

Some may, mostly democratic ones which do allow freedom of speech

> I'm asking because with the USA leading the free world (for
> now), I find it strange that so many of you get angry with
> each other for having opposing view points.

Angry? I'm not angry, personally. I enjoy the back and forth
banter (maybe people get angry with ME, though). I have a kind
of Howie Carr sense of humor and am similar to him politically
and it can be fun to make fun of politicians, partisan voters,
and so on. Naturally people can take these things the wrong way
and get offended.


We are blessed
> in this country to be able to have opposing views without
> consequence. We should be glad we are able to be dfferent.
> WIth the Patriot Act in full swing, we are slowly losing our
> Freedoms. Soon we will not be allowed to voice our
> Political/Religious views in public in order to maintain
> some strange idea of equality and safety.

Well, I hope the Patriot Act won't do that. I'd like to think
it can help out in the fight against terrorism though I
do wonder if it might "go too far".

> Is it so hard to realize we are all different, and that NO
> ONE is 100% right? Is it hard to accept that each of us has
> something to offer, and through an open forum discussion
> like this we are able to find out what other people believe
> and what other people need and what other people want? We
> all don't WANT the same things except maybe for the freedom
> to be different, the freedom to choose....FREEDOM.

Yes...though sometimes people, especially on the conservative
side (I'm MOSTLY conservative) see things as black and white with
no shades of gray. Or they portray them that way in an effort
to convince people that they're "totally right".

I get a kick out of Air America's attempt at talk radio (which,
other than maybe Stephanie Miller, I found boring) and seeing them
fail in the ratings is an example of schadenfraude--the enjoyment in
seeing your enemy fall flat on their face. This is how Red Sox
fans feel when they see the Yankees in a losing streak.

Yes, we should have "all sides" on talk radio but realize that
liberals have had their stamp on media for so long (TV, movies,
newspapers, magazines) that conservatalk is a welcomed response
that actually gives the OTHER side, or at least tries to. Notice
how Fox News Channel took off in the ratings? There are many people
in this country who are right of center and there was no news channel
on cable to represent their views. Now there is. And the shows,
like Hannity and Colmes, were done well.

if Air America could do THEIR shows well, more power to 'em. Many
conservatives like Sean Hannity portray liberals as being shrill
and sometimes, well, they are! (See: Gore, Al; Clinton, Hillary;
Moore, Michael; Kennedy, Ted) But of course conservatives can be shrill,too.

I don't agree with conservatives on every issue. Sometimes I think I'm
more of a "South Park Conservatives"--people who might agree with the
folks on FreeRepublic on most things but on some issues we disagree and
actually agree, to some extent, with liberals

> We are all fallable, to
> err is human. We put our entertainers on pedestals and
> expect perfection.

But it IS fun to make fun of Michael Jackson!

how about finding a way to contribute something good
> to our society?

Some people do, but in the meantime it's fun to make fun of
"the other side". Someday we'll find a way to change the
government--so that instead of career politicians who
use the seniority system to land pet governmental projects
that boost our taxes to the max, we can have "citizen
legislators" who go back to their profession after a
term or two. Someday there will be a viable third party
which will be fiscally conservative and socially
liberal/moderate.

Someday the Red Sox might even win the World Series--hey...

...wait a minute!

 

[raccoonradio]

A "Team America World Police" View...

Wonder how many people might find SOME truth (or at least some humor) in this quote from Team America: World Police (from the creators of South Park). I'll provide a link to the actual quote (no censoring) so be forewarned: some nasty language.

The author of a book on "South Park Conservatives" equates (penises) with
agressive conservatives; (kittycats) with anti-war liberals, and (anuses) with
terrorists. One South Park creator once said "We hate conservatives but we really (bleepin') hate liberals."

Again, be forewarned: some nasty language...(see also the "guy in bar" quote below it which says basically the same thing)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0372588/quotes

(the first one, the one that starts with "We're dicks!"