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Off-topic post moved here...Sutton/Pefferlaw station?!

> > How about a radio station then? For Sutton/Peferlaw?
> >
> GOOD IDEA!
>

I've spent my entire life in either Virginia (a small hamlet between Sutton and Pefferlaw on Highway 48) or Port Bolster (5 minutes north of Pefferlaw on Lake Simcoe), and I'm familiar with the way the radio industry works as I have a diploma in Radio Broadcasting. Let me make a few things clear to all those who think a radio station in these parts would work.

I agree with those that say a hole in service exists. The nearest station is 89.9 located about 15 minutes south of Pefferlaw in the small town of Sunderland. It's a repeater of KX96 Oshawa. The closest thing the area has had for a local radio station was CKDX Power 88.5 Newmarket in the late 1990s. They went country as Kat, then standards as Foxy, all the while squarely targeting the Toronto market.

Firstly, the two towns are in a very unique position in that they can pick up every commercial and CBC station in the Barrie/Orillia/Midland, Lindsay/Peterborough, Oshawa, and Toronto (with the not-so-notable exception of Flow 93.5) markets. I've even caught stations like Mix 106 Owen Sound, Country 95.3 Hamilton, and 99.5 Moose FM Bracebridge in the area on occasion. ANY attempt to launch a small-scale commercial station a la the former Y92 Lindsay would not work. Plain and simple. If it would, I'd apply for one and take out a big loan to do so. Why wouldn't it work? The dial is simply too crowded and the choices available to the listener are too diverse. Want rock? Tune to 101.5, 102.1, 95.7, 94.9, or 107.1. Want classic hits? Tune to 105.9, 91.9, or 92.5. Want AC? Tune to 93.1, 97.3, or 98.1. I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

Secondly, any attempt to launch a community or volunteer station would not be able to offer a format that would appeal to enough of the market to justify its existence. The nearby Georgina Island native reserve has such a station - Nish Radio 102.7. It sounds like it's trying to offer a rock format to its listeners, but I can't tell because they go all over the musical map so often that I can't listen to it for more than a few minutes. That's what a Pefferlaw or Sutton station would sound like.

Thirdly, in order for an application to work, the station would need to make a commitment to providing daily, local news and sports. The local weekly newspaper, the Georgina Advocate, has one article from Pefferlaw and perhaps two from Sutton. The remainder of the news is from the growing (and increasingly violent) town of Keswick. As for TV, an A-Channel reporter may wander through the area once every five or six months at best and Rogers Television would have us believe that York Region's northern boundary is Green Lane just north of Newmarket. When it comes to Sutton or Pefferlaw, which aren't growing all that much and probably won't until the 404 comes in 15 years, it would be difficult to provide local content because NONE EXISTS. Anyone who even pulls off to the side of the road in either of these towns (especially Pefferlaw) knows that the biggest happening at any given time is a misspelled road sign being installed.

For these three reasons and even more, let me reiterate...a local station would not work! An *actual* Newmarket station would work. A Keswick community station *might* work. Anyone starting up a Sutton/Pefferlaw station: good luck with that losing venture.
 
88.5 DID NOT go Kat country, then Standards as foxy, they Went from Kat Country to Dancin' Oldies to Standards as Foxy. 'Bout as many format changes as Buffalo's 92.9 Fm.
Let's see if I remember this correctly.
1480 CKDX (oldies or something?) went fm as Phoenix 88.5,(AC) then they were Xfm,(?Modern hits?) then they were Power 88five,(Dance hits) which WAS WORKING, but they were sold to Evanov group, and...why compete with yourself?
(Evanov owns Z103) So, Power became a Country station, as the Kat. (Shortly after sueing "Power 92" odd enough) then they chose to go with Dancin' oldies (which seemed to have a good following in the Beaches area of Toronto somehow. A dog groomer, and a bunch of her friends and customers)
Then they fliped to Standards as Foxy.

Don't let the constant format changes scare you, there's still hope for a radio station in Georgina. (not just Sutton/Peferlaw)

Hmmm...680 CFTR used to be at the Sutton Fair in its hit music days.
Foxy SHOULD be there today, at least.
Yes, it is true, the Sutton fair is getting smaller and smaller every year, but it should'nt be the reason for NO radio station present.
As for a local newspaper that went bankrupt a while back, let's not go there.
Frank Rogers (no relation to Ted, I believe) bankrupts EVERYTHING he touches!
He's the problem! Not the idea!
He Silenced the original 1480 CKAN due to a "cash shortage" that could have been avoided.
Then he bankrupt the local newspaper, and a few other businesses, then he tried to put a Highschool television network on the air, which went dead before it could even be a proper channel.
He even tried to put an AM radio station in Markham Ontario, which never got a licence, or if it did, "Magic 1610" (that's what he called it) never surfaced.

I'll stick up for the idea that Newmarket needs a radio station, but so does Georgina. I have solid faith in the idea that placing the station in Sutton, and serving ALL of Georgina will work well. (The rent in Sutton is cheaper than Keswick, for one...)

---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > How about a radio station then? For Sutton/Peferlaw?
> > >
> > GOOD IDEA!
> >
>
> I've spent my entire life in either Virginia (a small hamlet
> between Sutton and Pefferlaw on Highway 48) or Port Bolster
> (5 minutes north of Pefferlaw on Lake Simcoe), and I'm
> familiar with the way the radio industry works as I have a
> diploma in Radio Broadcasting. Let me make a few things
> clear to all those who think a radio station in these parts
> would work.
>
> I agree with those that say a hole in service exists. The
> nearest station is 89.9 located about 15 minutes south of
> Pefferlaw in the small town of Sunderland. It's a repeater
> of KX96 Oshawa. The closest thing the area has had for a
> local radio station was CKDX Power 88.5 Newmarket in the
> late 1990s. They went country as Kat, then standards as
> Foxy, all the while squarely targeting the Toronto market.
>
> Firstly, the two towns are in a very unique position in that
> they can pick up every commercial and CBC station in the
> Barrie/Orillia/Midland, Lindsay/Peterborough, Oshawa, and
> Toronto (with the not-so-notable exception of Flow 93.5)
> markets. I've even caught stations like Mix 106 Owen Sound,
> Country 95.3 Hamilton, and 99.5 Moose FM Bracebridge in the
> area on occasion. ANY attempt to launch a small-scale
> commercial station a la the former Y92 Lindsay would not
> work. Plain and simple. If it would, I'd apply for one and
> take out a big loan to do so. Why wouldn't it work? The dial
> is simply too crowded and the choices available to the
> listener are too diverse. Want rock? Tune to 101.5, 102.1,
> 95.7, 94.9, or 107.1. Want classic hits? Tune to 105.9,
> 91.9, or 92.5. Want AC? Tune to 93.1, 97.3, or 98.1. I could
> go on, but I think I've made my point.
>
> Secondly, any attempt to launch a community or volunteer
> station would not be able to offer a format that would
> appeal to enough of the market to justify its existence. The
> nearby Georgina Island native reserve has such a station -
> Nish Radio 102.7. It sounds like it's trying to offer a rock
> format to its listeners, but I can't tell because they go
> all over the musical map so often that I can't listen to it
> for more than a few minutes. That's what a Pefferlaw or
> Sutton station would sound like.
>
> Thirdly, in order for an application to work, the station
> would need to make a commitment to providing daily, local
> news and sports. The local weekly newspaper, the Georgina
> Advocate, has one article from Pefferlaw and perhaps two
> from Sutton. The remainder of the news is from the growing
> (and increasingly violent) town of Keswick. As for TV, an
> A-Channel reporter may wander through the area once every
> five or six months at best and Rogers Television would have
> us believe that York Region's northern boundary is Green
> Lane just north of Newmarket. When it comes to Sutton or
> Pefferlaw, which aren't growing all that much and probably
> won't until the 404 comes in 15 years, it would be difficult
> to provide local content because NONE EXISTS. Anyone who
> even pulls off to the side of the road in either of these
> towns (especially Pefferlaw) knows that the biggest
> happening at any given time is a misspelled road sign being
> installed.
>
> For these three reasons and even more, let me reiterate...a
> local station would not work! An *actual* Newmarket station
> would work. A Keswick community station *might* work. Anyone
> starting up a Sutton/Pefferlaw station: good luck with that
> losing venture.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
I have to agree. There's not enough attention given to various places in and around Sutton/Keswick.
Also don't forget Jackson's point!
A radio station in Sutton will not make you rich, but it also won't leave you living off of Kraft dinner.


> 88.5 DID NOT go Kat country, then Standards as foxy, they
> Went from Kat Country to Dancin' Oldies to Standards as
> Foxy. 'Bout as many format changes as Buffalo's 92.9 Fm.
> Let's see if I remember this correctly.
> 1480 CKDX (oldies or something?) went fm as Phoenix
> 88.5,(AC) then they were Xfm,(?Modern hits?) then they were
> Power 88five,(Dance hits) which WAS WORKING, but they were
> sold to Evanov group, and...why compete with yourself?
> (Evanov owns Z103) So, Power became a Country station, as
> the Kat. (Shortly after sueing "Power 92" odd enough) then
> they chose to go with Dancin' oldies (which seemed to have a
> good following in the Beaches area of Toronto somehow. A dog
> groomer, and a bunch of her friends and customers)
> Then they fliped to Standards as Foxy.
>
> Don't let the constant format changes scare you, there's
> still hope for a radio station in Georgina. (not just
> Sutton/Peferlaw)
>
> Hmmm...680 CFTR used to be at the Sutton Fair in its hit
> music days.
> Foxy SHOULD be there today, at least.
> Yes, it is true, the Sutton fair is getting smaller and
> smaller every year, but it should'nt be the reason for NO
> radio station present.
> As for a local newspaper that went bankrupt a while back,
> let's not go there.
> Frank Rogers (no relation to Ted, I believe) bankrupts
> EVERYTHING he touches!
> He's the problem! Not the idea!
> He Silenced the original 1480 CKAN due to a "cash shortage"
> that could have been avoided.
> Then he bankrupt the local newspaper, and a few other
> businesses, then he tried to put a Highschool television
> network on the air, which went dead before it could even be
> a proper channel.
> He even tried to put an AM radio station in Markham Ontario,
> which never got a licence, or if it did, "Magic 1610"
> (that's what he called it) never surfaced.
>
> I'll stick up for the idea that Newmarket needs a radio
> station, but so does Georgina. I have solid faith in the
> idea that placing the station in Sutton, and serving ALL of
> Georgina will work well. (The rent in Sutton is cheaper than
> Keswick, for one...)
>
---> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > > > How about a radio station then? For Sutton/Peferlaw?
> > > >
> > > GOOD IDEA!
> > >
> >
> > I've spent my entire life in either Virginia (a small
> hamlet
> > between Sutton and Pefferlaw on Highway 48) or Port
> Bolster
> > (5 minutes north of Pefferlaw on Lake Simcoe), and I'm
> > familiar with the way the radio industry works as I have a
>
> > diploma in Radio Broadcasting. Let me make a few things
> > clear to all those who think a radio station in these
> parts
> > would work.
> >
> > I agree with those that say a hole in service exists. The
> > nearest station is 89.9 located about 15 minutes south of
> > Pefferlaw in the small town of Sunderland. It's a repeater
>
> > of KX96 Oshawa. The closest thing the area has had for a
> > local radio station was CKDX Power 88.5 Newmarket in the
> > late 1990s. They went country as Kat, then standards as
> > Foxy, all the while squarely targeting the Toronto market.
>
> >
> > Firstly, the two towns are in a very unique position in
> that
> > they can pick up every commercial and CBC station in the
> > Barrie/Orillia/Midland, Lindsay/Peterborough, Oshawa, and
> > Toronto (with the not-so-notable exception of Flow 93.5)
> > markets. I've even caught stations like Mix 106 Owen
> Sound,
> > Country 95.3 Hamilton, and 99.5 Moose FM Bracebridge in
> the
> > area on occasion. ANY attempt to launch a small-scale
> > commercial station a la the former Y92 Lindsay would not
> > work. Plain and simple. If it would, I'd apply for one and
>
> > take out a big loan to do so. Why wouldn't it work? The
> dial
> > is simply too crowded and the choices available to the
> > listener are too diverse. Want rock? Tune to 101.5, 102.1,
>
> > 95.7, 94.9, or 107.1. Want classic hits? Tune to 105.9,
> > 91.9, or 92.5. Want AC? Tune to 93.1, 97.3, or 98.1. I
> could
> > go on, but I think I've made my point.
> >
> > Secondly, any attempt to launch a community or volunteer
> > station would not be able to offer a format that would
> > appeal to enough of the market to justify its existence.
> The
> > nearby Georgina Island native reserve has such a station -
>
> > Nish Radio 102.7. It sounds like it's trying to offer a
> rock
> > format to its listeners, but I can't tell because they go
> > all over the musical map so often that I can't listen to
> it
> > for more than a few minutes. That's what a Pefferlaw or
> > Sutton station would sound like.
> >
> > Thirdly, in order for an application to work, the station
> > would need to make a commitment to providing daily, local
> > news and sports. The local weekly newspaper, the Georgina
> > Advocate, has one article from Pefferlaw and perhaps two
> > from Sutton. The remainder of the news is from the growing
>
> > (and increasingly violent) town of Keswick. As for TV, an
> > A-Channel reporter may wander through the area once every
> > five or six months at best and Rogers Television would
> have
> > us believe that York Region's northern boundary is Green
> > Lane just north of Newmarket. When it comes to Sutton or
> > Pefferlaw, which aren't growing all that much and probably
>
> > won't until the 404 comes in 15 years, it would be
> difficult
> > to provide local content because NONE EXISTS. Anyone who
> > even pulls off to the side of the road in either of these
> > towns (especially Pefferlaw) knows that the biggest
> > happening at any given time is a misspelled road sign
> being
> > installed.
> >
> > For these three reasons and even more, let me
> reiterate...a
> > local station would not work! An *actual* Newmarket
> station
> > would work. A Keswick community station *might* work.
> Anyone
> > starting up a Sutton/Pefferlaw station: good luck with
> that
> > losing venture.
> >
>
 
OK then...what format would you pitch to the CRTC/community? What could you offer that's not on the dial already? Good luck with Georgina's News/Talk, Classic Country, AAA, or Urban AC! The former would be waaay too expensive and the latter three would be enjoyed by about 300 people.

> I have to agree. There's not enough attention given to
> various places in and around Sutton/Keswick.
> Also don't forget Jackson's point!
> A radio station in Sutton will not make you rich, but it
> also won't leave you living off of Kraft dinner.
 
> OK then...what format would you pitch to the CRTC/community?
> What could you offer that's not on the dial already? Good
> luck with Georgina's News/Talk, Classic Country, AAA, or
> Urban AC! The former would be waaay too expensive and the
> latter three would be enjoyed by about 300 people.

You're worried about the number of people, I'm worried more about the fact that so many businesses come and go from Sutton/Keswick/Peferlaw and other places near by.
I do believe restoring the Power format may be a good option.
Don't call it power though, because it's smarter to use a creative name that hasn't already been used, like the hype or something like that (that was just off the top of my head, respectfully, a better name perhaps?)
New market research may have to be done to verify that people out that way even want dance music today.
The other option is Rock of some sort.
I'm actually surprised Barrie's rock 95 hasn't launched a sister rock station to get the kids to grow up to love rock 95 down the road.(instead of what they've done with sister station 107.5)
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
> > OK then...what format would you pitch to the
> CRTC/community?
> > What could you offer that's not on the dial already?
> Good
> > luck with Georgina's News/Talk, Classic Country, AAA, or
> > Urban AC! The former would be waaay too expensive and the
>
> > latter three would be enjoyed by about 300 people.
>
> You're worried about the number of people, I'm worried more
> about the fact that so many businesses come and go from
> Sutton/Keswick/Peferlaw and other places near by.

Fair enough...and in my first post I did agree with you that a hole in radio presence exists in Georgina.

> I do believe restoring the Power format may be a good
> option.
> Don't call it power though, because it's smarter to use a
> creative name that hasn't already been used, like the hype
> or something like that (that was just off the top of my
> head, respectfully, a better name perhaps?)
> New market research may have to be done to verify that
> people out that way even want dance music today.

That may work...I know Z103.5 has been a popular choice in Sutton and Pefferlaw (with 2 "f"s I might add) since they boosted their signal a few years back. Did the old Power enter BBM ratings? If so, where did they stack up? I wish that York Region was its own market like Durham Region/Oshawa is, that way we could all have seen just how successful Power was.

> The other option is Rock of some sort.
> I'm actually surprised Barrie's rock 95 hasn't launched a
> sister rock station to get the kids to grow up to love rock
> 95 down the road.(instead of what they've done with sister
> station 107.5)

Could Barrie and the rest of Simcoe County be able to sustain a classic rock and a new rock/alternative station? If so, I'd be all for it! Whatever the case, 107.5 and 95.7 couldn't duplicate any of its music for fear of having 105.9 Jack FM Orillia complain. I'm not sure if this is being done anymore, but I did see a billboard at Dunlop & the 400 branding Jack as "Barrie's Classic Rock Station". Weird, I know.
 
> Could Barrie and the rest of Simcoe County be able to
> sustain a classic rock and a new rock/alternative station?
> If so, I'd be all for it! Whatever the case, 107.5 and 95.7
> couldn't duplicate any of its music for fear of having 105.9
> Jack FM Orillia complain. I'm not sure if this is being
> done anymore, but I did see a billboard at Dunlop & the 400
> branding Jack as "Barrie's Classic Rock Station". Weird, I
> know.
>
A different angle. Perhaps a company like Newcap would agree with a different way of dealing with new rock than that of edge 102.
On my opinion, they may be more interested in advising, rather than investing, but one thing's for sure, they'll most likely agree, wether the station is in Toronto, or Barrie, or Sutton, it can still be better run than edge 102.1. (no placing of word in their mouth intended.)

There's just too much in the area of rock absent from Edge and Rock95.
Anything from Tegan and Sarah (Cdn) to Pluto. Much can be found that is "hit worthy" or "lost classic" worthy.

I don't view Jack Orillia as Classic Rock, but then again, I havn't listened lately, and besides...they play what they want, a classic rock station plays classic rock. Jack can't be trusted to be *just* a classic rock station.

Also note: Evanov group is not interested in a repeater (at the very least) for Foxy in areas 88.5 fail to give attention to.
That option dates back to a time when Don Curry was employed to look into those things a few years back.
I'm not sure if the person who replaced him has any interest in a Foxy repeater that runs different ads closer to another community. The reason I looked into this, was based on the idea that no one from deep in Richmond Hill is going to drive all the way out to Sutton or Peferlaw...let alone Keswick to do their shopping.

<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
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