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Old School: multiple path processing-how did you do it?

What we've got here is someone with a youthful sense of adventure, who probably understands that maybe there is something to learn through experimentation. He's on-line as his schedule permits.

To take sow's ears (mp3 files) and try and deliver them as silk purses may be a stretch, but to discover what tweak makes things sound better... and to discover what tweak makes things sound like something that needs assistance from one of those things we call a "plumber's helper" is an education of sorts.

Everybody who doesn't have at least one hobby or pass-time activity that the rest of us might cluck our tongues over, please raise you hand now. ;D
 
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
Everybody who doesn't have at least one hobby or pass-time activity that the rest of us might cluck our tongues over, please raise you hand now. ;D

There's a Monty Python line about hobbies, but it's just sooooo wrong....
 
How about 256 bitrate AAC files? I started ripping CDs as AACs recently and I think they sound better. My biggest project, music-wise, is culling the dupes. I have six copies of some songs, from various compilations, and no two sound the same. My "radio" library has around 7000 songs.

Oh, my computer monitor right now is a 1970s era Pioneer stereo system. No cheap computer speakers for me!
 
I have one place running 320k AAC and only once in awhile can I tell the difference. It's very slight, and subtle and 99.9% of anyone can't hear it.

They're not HD and the STL is 44.1 linear so that's the only place compression comes into play.

I also have another client running linear audio into a 384k MPEG-2 STL, that is pretty transparent as well.
 
What the heck. Let's fire this puppy up this weekend.

http://myradiostream.com/1340bgnrevisited

I'v put it together as a tribute to a 1000W Am station in a college town I grew up listening to and later DJing at. The mix of Top 40 / Top 100 changes up through the day with some "rootsy deep cuts" at night, just like I heard back in the day. If you're following some of my posts in other threads, this is what a 7000 song library, from 1954 to 1987, sounds like. Some say "it ought be this way" and other say "no way".

Oh yeah, this is all software based right now, with a four band compressor.
 
I don't trust my computer speakers enough to comment on the processing, but the music right now is really much more what FM album rock was like in the early-mid 70s.
 
Michael, the mix changes throughout the day, just like the station I listened to did back in the day.

317, if you name it, you can claim it!
 
PirateJohnny said:
So, has anybody been listening?

Yes, I've checked it a few times. It does sound good, but maybe a bit too much upper-end audio.

I can't make myself believe it's a re-creation of an AM station when it's so bright in the treble.

It's good that the mix changes throughout the day.
 
PirateJohnny said:
How did the signals get re-combined into one? Was it with a simple resistor bridge or something more complicated?
For a number of years I worked with the Y100 (Hollywood/Miami, FL) system, which we used at WXLK, Roanoke, VA, and it was also used at some other stations. It used an active four-way crossover with first-order filters, then four Aphex Compellors for band processing, followed by a passive summer (the Compellor output controls set the band gains into the summer), followed by a modified Aphex Dominator (essentially the same as Frank Foti's slightly later Vigilante, with individual limit threshold controls for the three bands). The next stage was a hot-rodded Optimod 8100A with the Aphex input cards, and with the two-band processing disabled - that 8100A was essentially a stereo generator with the Orban high-frequency filters.
 
Dale H. Cook said:
PirateJohnny said:
How did the signals get re-combined into one? Was it with a simple resistor bridge or something more complicated?
For a number of years I worked with the Y100 (Hollywood/Miami, FL) system, which we used at WXLK, Roanoke, VA, and it was also used at some other stations. It used an active four-way crossover with first-order filters, then four Aphex Compellors for band processing, followed by a passive summer (the Compellor output controls set the band gains into the summer), followed by a modified Aphex Dominator (essentially the same as Frank Foti's slightly later Vigilante, with individual limit threshold controls for the three bands). The next stage was a hot-rodded Optimod 8100A with the Aphex input cards, and with the two-band processing disabled - that 8100A was essentially a stereo generator with the Orban high-frequency filters.

Very interesting. Thanks for the info, Dale.
 
Tom Wells said:
PirateJohnny said:
So, has anybody been listening?

Yes, I've checked it a few times. It does sound good, but maybe a bit too much upper-end audio.

I can't make myself believe it's a re-creation of an AM station when it's so bright in the treble.

It's good that the mix changes throughout the day.

OK. I'm re-creating the music mix, not the sound quality, although I've thought about it, to completely re-create the AM experience. But I would rather have a full-fidelity sound. Just as an internet radio station is the upper end still too high?

michael hagerty said:
I don't trust my computer speakers enough to comment on the processing, but the music right now is really much more what FM album rock was like in the early-mid 70s.

Judging by your time stamp Michael, you were listening to the Saturday Sundae program.

Here's the 7-day lineup (CDT):
4am-9am - Hot Biscuits-1954-1975 Top 40
9am-3pm - Midday Munchies-1954-1987 Top 100
3pm-6pm - Groovy Gravy-1963-1987 Top 100 with two 1954-1987 Pop Bottom 60 songs per hour
6pm-10pm - Flashback Attack-1963-1987 Top 100 less 63-75 Top 100
10pm-4pm - Night-Time Nuggets-1976-1987 Top 100 with one 1963-1987 Top 40 song, one 1954-1987 R&B Bottom 60, two 1954-1987 rock Bottom 60 songs and two
1964-1987 Rock or R&B deep cuts per hour
9pm-12am Saturday only - Saturday Sundae- 1954-1987 Bottom 60 with two Rock or R&B deep cuts per hour
 
Bill DeFelice, you must be talking about WAVZ or KC101 New Haven. In 1977 when I became PD of WAVZ (1300kHz, 1kw DA-N) we built 3-band component processing that went from the STL receiver to a Pultec EQ with a 10db boost at 8kHz and a lowpass filter at 10kHz. The Pultec output fed the input of a Crown crossover which, in mono mode, gave us bass, midrange and high freq outputs, each of which fed a UREI LA-4 optical compressor. The outputs were summed using, as I recall, 5k resistors on the + and - of each of the LA-4's balanced outputs, twisted and soldered together to feed the balanced input of an AM Volumax peak limiter. Our Harris MW1A transmitter had an integral 3db audio clipper that we deliberately undercalibrated and ran in maximum (3db) setting, which gave us virtually constant modulation peaks of 99% negative and 124% positive without the distortion you'd expect. We put the lowpass filter on the input in order to bandlimit what the system reacted to, so the high band compressor wouldn't reduce gain on cymbals and other high frequency audio that would have been well beyond the bandwidth of the typical AM receivers of the time, many of which were still quite wideband by today's standards. We essentially beat the NRSC to the punch by eight years, although the clipper produced some significant out-of-band emissions. The genius behind most of the design of this system was WAVZ/WKCI chief engineer Tom Osenkowsky. I, as PD, added the concept of using the EQ and filter ahead of the gain reduction, it was my idea to use the transmitter clipper, and I set all the controls on the system components. Tom and I agreed he should maintain control over the modulation since he was the chief operator, and he was always great about letting me squeeze out every legal drop of modulation.

In 1979, after we moved the Hot AC format from WAVZ to WKCI as KC101, Tom and assistant engineer Lloyd Prezant purchased and installed a similar system for the new FM format. It required two Crown crossovers to output three stereo bands and three stereo dBx compressors. We did not use any EQ or filtering for FM, and the outputs of the dBx compressors were summed resistively and fed an Orban Optimod 8000, state of the art at the time, running only 1 to 2db of gain reduction in "Limit Only" mode. Our top secret weapon at the time was the pair of diodes with which Tom retrofitted the baseband input of the Harris exciter, this was the state of the art of composite limiting/clipping at that time. Tom had to haul the 'scope up to the transmitter to adjust the composite input and eliminate any pilot modulation whenever I made an adjustment to the multiband system at the studio, since the Optimod 8000 composite output was far from being a "brick wall" like its successor, the 8100.

The Optimod 8100 was not even on the market yet, until well after I moved on in 1980 to NBC's 97WYNY/New York, where, at my request, chief operating engineer Randy Hoffner, who went on to develop the analog TV stereo audio system adopted by the FCC in 1985, built a 4-band component processing system using the then-new concept of active op amp crossovers and lookahead limiting of the type previously used primarily in the vinyl disc cutting process. That system fed Bob Orban's first Optimod 8100 unit, followed soon after by Optimod 8100/A serial #00001. Eric Small prototyped his Modulation Sciences CP803 composite clipper on a breadboard circuit board at WYNY's Empire State Building transmitter, and used our team's suggestions to finalize the ultimate 'sound' of the box that would soon be found at nearly every FM station in the country.
 
RadioDr said:
Bill DeFelice, you must be talking about WAVZ or KC101 New Haven. In 1977 when I became PD of WAVZ (1300kHz, 1kw DA-N) we built 3-band component processing that went from the STL receiver to a Pultec EQ with a 10db boost at 8kHz and a lowpass filter at 10kHz. The Pultec output fed the input of a Crown crossover which, in mono mode, gave us bass, midrange and high freq outputs, each of which fed a UREI LA-4 optical compressor. The outputs were summed using, as I recall, 5k resistors on the + and - of each of the LA-4's balanced outputs, twisted and soldered together to feed the balanced input of an AM Volumax peak limiter. Our Harris MW1A transmitter had an integral 3db audio clipper that we deliberately undercalibrated and ran in maximum (3db) setting, which gave us virtually constant modulation peaks of 99% negative and 124% positive without the distortion you'd expect. We put the lowpass filter on the input in order to bandlimit what the system reacted to, so the high band compressor wouldn't reduce gain on cymbals and other high frequency audio that would have been well beyond the bandwidth of the typical AM receivers of the time, many of which were still quite wideband by today's standards. We essentially beat the NRSC to the punch by eight years, although the clipper produced some significant out-of-band emissions. The genius behind most of the design of this system was WAVZ/WKCI chief engineer Tom Osenkowsky. I, as PD, added the concept of using the EQ and filter ahead of the gain reduction, it was my idea to use the transmitter clipper, and I set all the controls on the system components. Tom and I agreed he should maintain control over the modulation since he was the chief operator, and he was always great about letting me squeeze out every legal drop of modulation.

In 1979, after we moved the Hot AC format from WAVZ to WKCI as KC101, Tom and assistant engineer Lloyd Prezant purchased and installed a similar system for the new FM format. It required two Crown crossovers to output three stereo bands and three stereo dBx compressors. We did not use any EQ or filtering for FM, and the outputs of the dBx compressors were summed resistively and fed an Orban Optimod 8000, state of the art at the time, running only 1 to 2db of gain reduction in "Limit Only" mode. Our top secret weapon at the time was the pair of diodes with which Tom retrofitted the baseband input of the Harris exciter, this was the state of the art of composite limiting/clipping at that time. Tom had to haul the 'scope up to the transmitter to adjust the composite input and eliminate any pilot modulation whenever I made an adjustment to the multiband system at the studio, since the Optimod 8000 composite output was far from being a "brick wall" like its successor, the 8100.

The Optimod 8100 was not even on the market yet, until well after I moved on in 1980 to NBC's 97WYNY/New York, where, at my request, chief operating engineer Randy Hoffner, who went on to develop the analog TV stereo audio system adopted by the FCC in 1985, built a 4-band component processing system using the then-new concept of active op amp crossovers and lookahead limiting of the type previously used primarily in the vinyl disc cutting process. That system fed Bob Orban's first Optimod 8100 unit, followed soon after by Optimod 8100/A serial #00001. Eric Small prototyped his Modulation Sciences CP803 composite clipper on a breadboard circuit board at WYNY's Empire State Building transmitter, and used our team's suggestions to finalize the ultimate 'sound' of the box that would soon be found at nearly every FM station in the country.

Very detailed and very interesting.
 
RadioDr said:
Bill DeFelice, you must be talking about WAVZ or KC101 New Haven.

(above snipped for brevity)

Yes, I had heard about the culmination of processing back in the days when I was a student engineer but never had the opportunity to see it. Thanks to a couple of friends who are avid aircheck collectors I have a sampling of how that processing sounded back then.

I had heard about the processing at NBC/YNY as well but never knew about the secret formula there, either. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
 
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