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Old Transmitter Site

O

oldiesfan6479

The listing for KOOL 960 (5000 watts) in the 1951 Radio Annual has the
transmitter location as "Chicago and McDowell Roads."

Calling the real old-timers...where is (was) Chicago St., Rd., Ave., whatever?
The only contemporary Chicago St. is in Chandler, it runs E-W as does McDowell,
and it's nowhere near McDowell anyway, so this "Chicago" must have since been
renamed or "defuncted" (is that a word?) as a street.

And assuming with five gallons they'd be a DA-N in 1951, as 960 is now and has
been for a long time, there would have been multiple towers at this old site.

BTW, the KPHO 910 listing has its XMTR site as 2400 W. Buckeye Rd., however
that seems to have been a carry-forward typo, since that was the KPHO 1230
site, and in the same annual, there is also a relatively new (1950 airdate) listing
for KRIZ on 1230, at its then-and-now (KOY) 2345 W. Buckeye Rd. site.
 
The KOOL site was 44th St & Oak, the old Thomas Mall site. The towers were about the location of Costco. It was called Pierce Farms. I think McDowell Rd used to be called Chicago Road. (It might have been Thomas, not sure). I'll check some old maps and verify. But Chicago did run east and west through Phoenix.
 
pberger: I have found old topo map evidence of the site.
See this link:

http://www.sierraestrella.com/m/map1952m.jpg

Just at the left margin runoff you see "Radio Sta" and four towers
aligned SW>NE, just as the KOOL 960 tower alignment was up at
the Chauncey ranch and the current 960 site in north Phoenix,
above the Loop 101/Squaw Peak interchange.

This original location would be a bit south of Costco--just NE of
the intersection of North 44th Street and East Palm Lane.

Another map at the same website also depicts the towers:

http://www.sierraestrella.com/m/map1973r.jpg

This map is a 1973 update to a 1952 original, however I'm pretty
sure the towers were gone from this location prior to 1973 and
were just overlooked in the map revisions.

The mystery regarding a road named "Chicago" remains.
 
oldiesfan6479 said:
Another map at the same website also depicts the towers:

http://www.sierraestrella.com/m/map1973r.jpg

This map is a 1973 update to a 1952 original, however I'm pretty
sure the towers were gone from this location prior to 1973 and
were just overlooked in the map revisions.
Click to expand...

Sure were a lot of dog tracks back in the day! Nurse Jeff and I combed that map for any evidence of Lumberyard 14~Forty's Tower of Power and didn't see it noted. We also didn't see that funky downhill landing strip on the grounds of the Army Reserve (south of Oak and east of 52nd St).

Must have been quite a sight to see KOOL's four sticks and KT'R's two about a mile from each other!
 
oldiesfan6479 said:
The listing for KOOL 960 (5000 watts) in the 1951 Radio Annual has the
transmitter location as "Chicago and McDowell Roads."

Calling the real old-timers...where is (was) Chicago St., Rd., Ave., whatever?
The only contemporary Chicago St. is in Chandler, it runs E-W as does McDowell,
and it's nowhere near McDowell anyway, so this "Chicago" must have since been
renamed or "defuncted" (is that a word?) as a street.
Click to expand...

Checking this map from 1949, I found that quite a few numbered streets/avenues once had "proper" names (both are listed on this map). I'm guessing that these were named by Maricopa County, before they were annexed into Phoenix.

32nd St. was Orange Rd. (the name is mostly off the map, but I do remember old-timers calling it that).
36th St. was Frederick Rd.
40th St. was Four Mile Rd.
44th St. was Chicago Ave.

It's not on this map, but IIRC, 24th St. was once known as Biltmore Rd.

Also, FYI. McDowell Rd. was once known as Christy Rd. E. Van Buren St. was Tempe Rd., and Buckeye Rd. was Henshaw Rd. Some streets were even lettered, such as Avenue O (Dunlap/Olive Ave.), Avenue P (Peoria Ave.), and Avenue Q (Cactus Rd).
 
Kudos to Keith for solving the final piece of the puzzle.

Per his linked map, since Palm Lane did not yet go east
of 44th Street/Chicago Avenue, the tower location of
"Chicago and McDowell Roads" would be a reasonable
description.
 
I also noticed that in the '50s and '60s Broadcasting Yearbooks, KRIZ's address was "2345 Westward Blvd.", so this has me thinking that Buckeye Rd. once had this name as well.
 
I apologize for coming in late in the conversation.

I grew up in North Scottsdale, years before living there was chic.
Shea Blvd was a two laner (from 30th Street, north of Dreamy Draw), turning into a dirt trail just after the Taliesin entrance.
Eventually it went through to Beeline Hwy, but Fountain Hills was nothing but a double-wide advertising great buys in land.
End of short biographical sketch.

I remember 4 towers, about a 1/4 mile from the northwest corner of then Bell and Scottsdale Roads.
Weren't these KOOL's AM towers or was I mistaken?
While I have your attention, are the towers at Tower Plaza still for 620 KTAR?
One more (promise), the tower on the Westward Ho.
Functioning or just a Valley landmark?

*in my best Columbo expression*, I'm sorry I do have one more question, I know you are busy but I have to ask..."What does TMISU stand for?".
 
desertskies said:
I remember 4 towers, about a 1/4 mile from the northwest corner of then Bell and Scottsdale Roads.
Weren't these KOOL's AM towers or was I mistaken?
While I have your attention, are the towers at Tower Plaza still for 620 KTAR?
One more (promise), the tower on the Westward Ho.
Functioning or just a Valley landmark?
Click to expand...

That was indeed the second location for the AM 960 site, on then-owner
Tom Chauncey's ranch. Does anyone know when the site was moved from
"Chicago Avenue" to the ranch?

The two Tower Plaza sticks are still KT'R 620 (since 1941). I think I just
realized how Akbar came up with the "Sports Parking Lot 620" handle.

The Westward Ho tower was the original KPHO-TV stick, prior to it and other
TV stations setting up shop on South Mountain. IIRC, it was later used by
KXTC 92.3 Glendale (long before KT'R-FM on 92.3).

Speaking of other early TV sites, it is known that original channel 12 site--
as KTYL-TV--was in Mesa (hence the KPNX COL, no matter how much they've
tried to "bury" it over the years) on Main west of Dobson. Did channels 3
and 10 start from day one on South Mountain, or were there earlier sites?
 
Dr. Akbar said:
oldiesfan6479 said:
Another map at the same website also depicts the towers:

http://www.sierraestrella.com/m/map1973r.jpg

This map is a 1973 update to a 1952 original, however I'm pretty
sure the towers were gone from this location prior to 1973 and
were just overlooked in the map revisions.
Click to expand...



Sure were a lot of dog tracks back in the day! Nurse Jeff and I combed that map for any evidence of Lumberyard 14~Forty's Tower of Power and didn't see it noted. We also didn't see that funky downhill landing strip on the grounds of the Army Reserve (south of Oak and east of 52nd St).

Must have been quite a sight to see KOOL's four sticks and KT'R's two about a mile from each other!
Click to expand...

Interesting, I live close to where one of those Dog Tracks supposedly was, and in 1973 there was no dog track at 52nd st and Thomas (SW Coprner). There was, at one time a horse track very near the lumberyard, at 64th and Thomas, North of where the resevior is now, in fact, south of there, completely tucked away is a private country club which has been there since the 20's. If you didn't know about it, you'd never know it. I went to an event there a few years back and was amazed to find such a piece of old history hidden away.
 
Legend City said:
Interesting, I live close to where one of those Dog Tracks supposedly was, and in 1973 there was no dog track at 52nd st and Thomas (SW Coprner). There was, at one time a horse track very near the lumberyard, at 64th and Thomas, North of where the resevior is now, in fact, south of there, completely tucked away is a private country club which has been there since the 20's. If you didn't know about it, you'd never know it. I went to an event there a few years back and was amazed to find such a piece of old history hidden away.
Click to expand...

I lived a few blocks from there in 1973. I can assure you that there was no dog track at 52nd St. & Thomas back then. There was a U-Totem (remember them?) on the NW corner, and another small store on the SW corner but I forget exactly what it was.
 
there is a great site www.historicalaerials.com which has old aerial photos, from 1957. You can see the tower for KAZG quite well in the 1957 photo, when it was still next to the drive in. The race track is clearly shown across from the reservoirs. Arizona Country Club was visible from Thomas Rd. North of it was a pretty fancy supper club, anybody remember the name of it?

The KOOL towers are visible in the 1957 photo, and there was a building at the Northeast corner of 44th St & Oak (I think) which might have been the transmitter building. Hard to define the shadows of their towers, although you see they are aligned in a northeasterly, southwesterly direction

KTAR's two towers are very visible in the 1957 photo, but Tower Plaza had not yet been built.

On this site, you can select about 6 different photos: 2004, 2002, 1993, 1986, 1970 and 1957, and you can have two photos up at the same time, and slide from one to the other. It is a little hard to navigate: if you have it in zoom in mode, you can not drag the map. You have to click "pan" before you can move the map.
 
pberger said:
there is a great site www.historicalaerials.com which has old aerial photos, from 1957.
Click to expand...

That link is for SoCal. While it might be interesting to see the birthplace of the Old Gringo, how 'bout a link for Maricopa County? The Nurse and I can't wait to see the former site of 9~Sixty AM and those UToteM locations.
 
By the way, I find it easier to locate the area on the 2004 map, then switch to the older maps.

Also, zoom out until you find where you are. ON the left side of the picture you can turn on street names, either all or just the major streets.
 
KeithE4 said:
Legend City said:
Interesting, I live close to where one of those Dog Tracks supposedly was, and in 1973 there was no dog track at 52nd st and Thomas (SW Coprner). There was, at one time a horse track very near the lumberyard, at 64th and Thomas, North of where the resevior is now, in fact, south of there, completely tucked away is a private country club which has been there since the 20's. If you didn't know about it, you'd never know it. I went to an event there a few years back and was amazed to find such a piece of old history hidden away.
Click to expand...

I lived a few blocks from there in 1973. I can assure you that there was no dog track at 52nd St. & Thomas back then. There was a U-Totem (remember them?) on the NW corner, and another small store on the SW corner but I forget exactly what it was.
Click to expand...

U-Totem! We probably read comix there together! Go-low gas station was across the street, now a 7-11 where I later would play endless games of pinball. Good little neighborhood, I still live there.
 
pberger said:
Just type in "Phoenix, AZ" in the search box on the left, where it says address/landmark, etc
Click to expand...

I'm with Akbar.....no search box or other way to get to Phoenix from what I can tell. Been through all the various options in both Firefox and IE. ???
 
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