Older Audiences & Advertiser Appeal (For All Markets)

[Kelly A]

Seriously, Dude, what's wrong with you? Is it hatred, resentment, anger ... what? Please explain.

David explained it well. This is a radio discussion board. Some discuss radio purely as a casual listener. Other's discuss radio as a hobbyist (DX'er), while some really want to drill into the nuance of music. A handful want to include political topics, and many who want to relive memories as it relates to radio. There are other's here who are/have been professionals in the industry, either as employees, or owners/management. In essence, we all look at the business through a different lens.

Ethnic patterns, race, and age range are of interest to those of us who rely on advertisers looking to use radio (or TV) to reach a sector or sub-sector of an audience. To some casual listener's or hobbyist', bracketing people into demographic categories amounts to hearing how the sausage is made. They might prefer to experience their love growing up with radio or TV only from the romantic aspect of being personally entertained. The thought of that romance being 'tainted' by reading how the sausage is actually made, may not be of interest to some. I suspect this is an example of why you get so agitated, because a comment hits too close to home, and not representative of how you feel about what radio means to you.
Many of the active participants right here on Radiodiscussions fall into a particular age, gender, race, and ethnic category; mostly male, white, over 50. Sure, there are a few exceptions, but based on the nostalgic posts, it doesn't take someone with a degree in statistics from Harvard, to determine what drives certain topics or interest on this site.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

The fact is that the group that uses Cricket phones is so far out of any group advertisers are interested in (I think most Crickets, in fact, are bought by family members who realize that Ma or Pa can't fathom an iPhone),

In radio, we try to discourage heavy over-65 listening if we can because it taints the perspective of ad buyers. I remember well when Randy and his team took over WFLA in Tampa and when an old woman would call, they'd sometimes be put on the air just so the talk host could say, "Oh, my god, another blue-haired old lady..." and hang up. The whole idea was to make them feel unwelcome.

That is so sad. It's also cynical. In an ideal world, every listener should be treated as a welcome listener. It's sad to treat older people that way, because most older people know when they are being disrespected -- and they have feelings too, and it hurts to be treated rudely and coldly. That is really a tactic of exclusion and maginalization.
Many in the boomer generation are still very active seniors and active consumers. They may not purchase as much as the demographic of age 25-55, but they are still very active. When I worked for the U.S. Census, we were told that 10,000 boomers will retire every day in the U.S., until the year 2030.

 

[Kelly A]

That is so sad. It's also cynical. In an ideal world, every listener should be treated as a welcome listener. It's sad to treat older people that way, because most older people know when they are being disrespected -- and they have feelings too, and it hurts to be treated rudely and coldly. That is really a tactic of exclusion and maginalization.

You're confusing business as exclusion or 'marginalization'. From it's beginnings, radio has always been about trying to target an audience that either advertisers want to reach, or for non-profit, donor's want to give money to. There are literally hundreds of examples of media that target boomers where they live: 'Diginets' like MeTV, 'conservative' talk radio, magazines, Facebook groups, and local TV news, just to name a few.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

I read the website. This radio station WLML plays standards - what they call "American Songbook". That's like a big station in L.A. where I grew up --- KMPC 710. Their format was MOR - their logo was "station of the stars" and they played all the artists that WLML lists.

Sometimes, they played slow pop tunes that were charting like Anne Murray "Snowbird" or "May I Have This Dance for the Rest of My Life" ( just saying). Sometimes they played slow country/ pop like "By the Time I Get to Phoenix", etc. They could be kind of eclectic. But all those artists that WLML lists on their "about us" page -- they played them. Well, except for Diana Krall, who was just starting her career.
At any rate, I considered that to be music for 55+ listeners. But, my point is that they were huge with that market - even back then.

(Except that WLML lists Rod Stewart. Why? I always considered Rod Stewart to be a rocker. But maybe they see him as singing standards, the same way that Lady Gaga sings standards with Tony Bennett).

This leads into an off-topic discussion of: What constitutes a MOR format these days, and is it profitable? Also: As the American population ages, how much purchasing power does the huge swath of baby boomers still have? My guess is -- they have a lot of purchasing power, especially in states that attract retirees, like Florida and Arizona. As boomers retire, they move west and south, towards warmer weather and the sun belt. ( I worked for the Census, and the Census Bureau showed the north central "rust belt" states as losing their older population).

Candid disclosure: I'm a senior. I think a lot of people here are seniors. As a matter of fact, I think our moderators are seniors. Can you imagine our moderators, who are experts in the business of radio, calling up this guy Randy in Tampa, and he hangs up on them, because they might be seen as detrimental to advertisers? That is so .....awful. It's awful. This behavior is what contributes to the coarsening of our society, to the cynicism, polarization, and divisiveness in our culture. There's just no need for that at all.

Standards ( American Songbook) are not my music. My music is the Beatles era with whom I came of age. But if WLML can be successful, I say more power to them. Good for them for programming to seniors. And on behalf of our older population, I'll text them ( or call them) and request Sinatra songs. Also, Randy's behavior is shameful, and if the PD told him to be disrespectful and exclusionary of seniors, then the PD's behavior is shameful. One of these days, Randy's going to be older also. Karma is a bear. ☹️ [/rant] -- Daryl

 

[Greg Goodfellow]

The fact is that the group that uses Cricket phones is so far out of any group advertisers are interested in (I think most Crickets, in fact, are bought by family members who realize that Ma or Pa can't fathom an iPhone),

In radio, we try to discourage heavy over-65 listening if we can because it taints the perspective of ad buyers. I remember well when Randy and his team took over WFLA in Tampa and when an old woman would call, they'd sometimes be put on the air just so the talk host could say, "Oh, my god, another blue-haired old lady..." and hang up. The whole idea was to make them feel unwelcome.

Exactly the reason why LPFMs should be given respect, because NO ONE should be made to feel disrespected. LPFM’s are like the old-time general store of years past, where ideally everyone has a place-they are unique creations that, if properly done, can create civic pride and be a source of inspiration.

 

[Kelly A]

Exactly the reason why LPFMs should be given respect, because NO ONE should be made to feel disrespected. LPFM’s are like the old-time general store of years past, where ideally everyone has a place-they are unique creations that, if properly done, can create civic pride and be a source of inspiration.

To quote Aerosmith: Dream-on.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

Exactly the reason why LPFMs should be given respect, because NO ONE should be made to feel disrespected. LPFM’s are like the old-time general store of years past, where ideally everyone has a place-they are unique creations that, if properly done, can create civic pride and be a source of inspiration.

Wait, what? A radio station is lime a general store? Most of which are long gone?

 

[wadio]

To quote Aerosmith: Dream-on.

Kelly A, it's funny how you take such pleasure in dismissing and making fun of anything that doesn't fit your narrative. That's just plain rude and nasty.

I see that your direct insult to me has been removed from this thread. I assume that's because you crossed the line, yet the rest of your hateful rhetoric remains.

In fact, my reply was not deleted:

And if I may quote Frank Berry, "Please be kind to each other and avoid name-calling and insults."

That's a simple request and not difficult to uphold.

I wonder how Frank feels about all this and I wish he would chime in. This is classic trolling, isn't it? Frank, if I'm wrong please let me know.

 

[gr8oldies]

The fact is that the group that uses Cricket phones is so far out of any group advertisers are interested in (I think most Crickets, in fact, are bought by family members who realize that Ma or Pa can't fathom an iPhone),

In radio, we try to discourage heavy over-65 listening if we can because it taints the perspective of ad buyers. I remember well when Randy and his team took over WFLA in Tampa and when an old woman would call, they'd sometimes be put on the air just so the talk host could say, "Oh, my god, another blue-haired old lady..." and hang up. The whole idea was to make them feel unwelcome.

I we talking Cricket, the phone company (now merged into Sprint) which has all or most models or phones on pre-paid plans or maybe Jitterbug, the large phone with large letters and numbers.

 

[wadio]

I we talking Cricket, the phone company (now merged into Sprint) which has all or most models or phones on pre-paid plans or maybe Jitterbug, the large phone with large letters and numbers.

That's correct. Cricket is the carrier. Jitterbugs and flip phones are the phones aimed at seniors. But that's rapidly changing so it's not fair to make a generalization.

In fact flip phones are now becoming popular with GenZs:

Why are flip phones coming back? Gen Z is powering a renaissance for the forgotten device

The hashtag #bringbackflipphones has more than 25 million views on TikTok. What flip phones are available now?

www.usatoday.com

... so it's getting harder to make fun of seniors right now.

 

[Greg Goodfellow]

Wait, what? A radio station is lime a general store? Most of which are long gone?

I did say they are almost all gone. However, the oldest general store in the nation is in the town where the LPFM I volunteer at is located. THAT was the inspiration for my comparison. You, I and Kelly A will hopefully agree to disagree.

 

[Greg Goodfellow]

Kelly A, it's funny how you take such pleasure in dismissing and making fun of anything that doesn't fit your narrative. That's just plain rude and nasty.

I see that your direct insult to me has been removed from this thread. I assume that's because you crossed the line, yet the rest of your hateful rhetoric remains.

In fact, my reply was not deleted:



That's a simple request and not difficult to uphold.

I wonder how Frank feels about all this and I wish he would chime in. This is classic trolling, isn't it? Frank, if I'm wrong please let me know.

Radio, his comments to me do not bother me one bit. I enjoy the banter. I have done much part-time work in commercial radio covering 20 years, along with creating and operating a high school station, a project that covered 28 total years. This new adventure is yet another journey. My time in radio was simply a hobby that also gave me paycheck. I do what I do now as a labor of love-it is paying me in other ways. I absolutely respect anyone who has devoted his or her life to commercial radio. Every post I have ever made backs up that opinion.

 

[wadio]

Radio, his comments to me do not bother me one bit. I enjoy the banter. I have done much part-time work in commercial radio covering 20 years, along with creating and operating a high school station, a project that covered 28 total years. This new adventure is yet another journey. My time in radio was simply a hobby that also gave me paycheck. I do what I do now as a labor of love-it is paying me in other ways. I absolutely respect anyone who has devoted his or her life to commercial radio. Every post I have ever made backs up that opinion.

You have my respect.

 

[Kelly A]

Kelly A, it's funny how you take such pleasure in dismissing and making fun of anything that doesn't fit your narrative. That's just plain rude and nasty.

I see that your direct insult to me has been removed from this thread. I assume that's because you crossed the line, yet the rest of your hateful rhetoric remains.

What direct insult? You seem to interpret everything as an insult if you don't agree nor understand.
BTW, you asked me to explain my comments about demographics, including age, gender, race. Did you even bother to read it?
Probably not. When it comes to a discussion, all you want to do is cry and whine when other's are participating in the discussion.

That's a simple request and not difficult to uphold.

Requests are granted to those who deserve it.

I wonder how Frank feels about all this and I wish he would chime in. This is classic trolling, isn't it? Frank, if I'm wrong please let me know.

'Boo hoo!! Frank, Kelly's being mean to me!!' Dude, grow the F-up and discuss. And if you can't tell, that's advice, not a direct insult either.

 

[wadio]

What direct insult?

It's been deleted so I can't quote it, but it wasn't nice.

You seem to interpret everything as an insult if you don't agree nor understand.
BTW, you asked me to explain my comments about demographics, including age, gender, race. Did you even bother to read it?
Probably not. When it comes to a discussion, all you want to do is cry and whine when other's are participating in the discussion.

Requests are granted to those who deserve it.

'Boo hoo!! Frank, Kelly's being mean to me!!' Dude, grow the F-up and discuss. And if you can't tell, that's advice, not a direct insult either.

LOL! 😁

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

You're confusing business as exclusion or 'marginalization'. From it's beginnings, radio has always been about trying to target an audience that either advertisers want to reach, or for non-profit, donor's want to give money to. There are literally hundreds of examples of media that target boomers where they live: 'Diginets' like MeTV, 'conservative' talk radio, magazines, Facebook groups, and local TV news, just to name a few.

David Eduardo:

In radio, we try to discourage heavy over-65 listening if we can because it taints the perspective of ad buyers. I remember well when Randy and his team took over WFLA in Tampa and when an old woman would call, they'd sometimes be put on the air just so the talk host could say, "Oh, my god, another blue-haired old lady..." and hang up. The whole idea was to make them feel unwelcome.

No, no, That's not what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying that a station should change its format to try to please seniors. A station can have whatever format appeals to advertisers and the majority of its listeners.

I'm talking about how Randy in Tampa wanted to treat the seniors who called up. He wanted the DJ to put them on the air, then say in exasperation, "OMG, another blue-haired lady," ( that's a stereotype) then hang up on them, to show advertisers that they did not want seniors listening to the station. I think you can program a station to a format without being rude to people on the phone and hanging up on them. I was taught that is very rude and hurtful, as well as a stereotype. Hanging up on people after denouncing them is hurtful. It doesn't have to happen. You don't have to insult people and hang up on them in order to attract advertisers and make a profit.

I remember the story about Rush Limbaugh, who told a Black caller, "Take that bone out of your nose", then hung up on him. That's Rush's trademark -- "owning the libs", but it is still a hurtful and unnecessary treatment of another human being. Rush wanted to attract one demographic and wanted to discourage another demographic. That's what Randy in Tampa wants to do. But, I think it is still possible to be courteous to listeners without telling them off, insulting them, and hanging up on them. In any part of our country, telling someone off, denouncing them on the air, then hanging up on them is considered rude.

I think it is possible to be courteous, but brief with listeners who call. Simply say," Okay, thank you for your call, but we need to move on now, and I'm going to have to let you go." That conveys the same impression, without the personal insult, the stereotype, and putting them on the air for the purpose of humiliating them.

It's not necessary to humiliate another human being in order to make a profit. Civility and courtesy to others cost you nothing out of your budget.

If we are going to have more civility in this nation-- which we greatly need, then we have to model that civility. I don't mind that Randy in Tampa wants to attract advertisers to whatever demographic he is programming his station for.

It's not what he does -- it's HOW he does it.

If Randy himself calls someone up, does he want to be insulted, stereotyped and put on the air for the purpose of humiliating him to impress advertisers? Pretty sure he does not.

And by the way, I'm not bothered about hearing about "how sausage is made". I'm FASCINATED by how sausage is made. ( the analogy of sausage meaning the behind-the-scenes business of running a radio station). I read all threads about radio as a business. I'm not squeamish about how sausage is made. But I will speak up and advocate for treating everyone with civility and respect. I think we should treat people as we would like to be treated. JMO -- Daryl

 

[vchimpanzee]

to show advertisers that they did not want seniors listening to the station.

A DJ on WEZV Myrtle Beach SC said either on Facebook or in reply to an email that she was told not to post photos of old people when she showed herself having a good time with listeners. The station was no longer borderline standards but had fully crossed the line to soft AC. They let her go before dropping soft AC for mainstream, but they needed a slot for a DJ from the co-owned hot AC that changed to talk.

Eventually for some reason they went back to soft AC so I guess they found out they needed the old people.

I remember the story about Rush Limbaugh, who told a Black caller, "Take that bone out of your nose", then hung up on him.

I've heard stories like that, but it was my experience that he was polite to people. Maybe not as polite to people who disagreed. But I mostly heard callers who agreed.

 

[vchimpanzee]

(Except that WLML lists Rod Stewart. Why? I always considered Rod Stewart to be a rocker. But maybe they see him as singing standards, the same way that Lady Gaga sings standards with Tony Bennett).

But on the stations I listen to online, he is mostly a singer of standards. The primary exception is "Have I Told You Lately" which seems to qualify as a standard. "Tonight's the Night" and "This Old Heart of Mine" and maybe "Maggie May" are on America's Best Music.

Standards ( American Songbook) are not my music. My music is the Beatles era with whom I came of age.

I grew up during the disco era. I wasn't familiar with The Beatles and even once I heard them, I didn't really like them. Once i discovered standards, that was my music, along with the softer music from the disco era and even some disco.

But if WLML can be successful, I say more power to them. Good for them for programming to seniors.

A lot of the songs aren't familiar, and even the ones that are aren't the familiar versions, but I've tried it more lately.

 

[Mediafrog+]

I we talking Cricket, the phone company (now merged into Sprint) which has all or most models or phones on pre-paid plans or maybe Jitterbug, the large phone with large letters and numbers.

Cricket, originally an independent company, was bought up by AT&T, and now serves as its prepaid brand. Metro by T-Mobile has the same role for that company.

You are thinking of Jitterbug, which has simple phones targeted at the 75+ crowd.

Sprint doesn’t exist any more, having been merged into T-Mobile with some assets spun off to Dish Wireless.

 

[gr8oldies]

Cricket, originally an independent company, was bought up by AT&T, and now serves as its prepaid brand. Metro by T-Mobile has the same role for that company.

You are thinking of Jitterbug, which has simple phones targeted at the 75+ crowd.

Sprint doesn’t exist any more, having been merged into T-Mobile with some assets spun off to Dish Wireless.

I was a Cricket customer when they were only in 6 markets with very limited local coverage. Dayton, Ohio was one of them. The market seemed to be folks who couldn't credit qualify for one of the other carriers.