Oldies as a format...

[Kent Dorsey]

We have seen many diverse opinions on the ratings questions and survivability of oldies as a successful format. I have come to the conclusion that the possibility of MOST listeners (not all) miss hearing atleast some chances of new music with what they listen to.
There are fantastic albums out there now by the Beach Boys, The Fixx, and Rush... and I am not sure where any of them fit on someone's format. My guess is Rush may be getting some airplay, the Beach Boys might be fitting on some AC format, and The Fixx... I don't know where they fit in(which is a shame, because the album is really good).
Makes me wonder if what a successful oldies format needs is a twice an hour injection of new music. Do you think that might make an oldies station successful longevity wise?
There is a satellite country format (maybe Real Country?) that plays two new songs per hour amongst classic country and seems to have success.
We just hear occasional complaining about the lack of an of oldies outlet, but playing devils advocate, maybe the format is doomed to a degree because of the limits of it...
I hope "Spring Vacation" and "From There to Back Again" and other new tunes from The Beach Boys' "Thats Why God Made The Radio" find a new audience...some of that album is like stepping back into the 60's...
What do you think about the oldies format? am I on the wrong track?

 

[hschutte]

I remember when I lived in NYC, 101.9 FM W-CBS would play new songs from those classic artists every so often. Too bad a station like that may never happen for Charlotte.. I know I'd support it.

 

[hschutte]

Typo.. I meant CBS 101.1 FM.. I lived in NYC for 30 years. One of my favorites stations at the time.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Regarding new music on oldies radio, the standards format actually does include it. Most of the songs are new versions of older hits, while a few just sound like they were recorded in the 40s but with much better technology.

Still, there are rock and roll songs being recorded now, and some standards stations are playing them. One I particularly hate is "I Got Rhythm" by Brian Wilson, which is a jazz standard. That's a song that just shouldn't be rock and roll.

Other new recordings of rock and roll classics can be heard on standards radio. In fact, classic rock and roll shows up in the format anyway. I haven't heard "Rock Around the Clock" on the satellite format on my station but it probably airs on the local morning show, which has considerably more rock and roll than the rest of the programming.

People northeast of Charlotte, and in the UNCC area, can hear this format on 1280. On the south end of town, there is another station on 1150 which is more traditional in its approach. They don't play hardly any rock and roll. For all practical purposes, both stations have daytime-only signals.

 

[hschutte]

Memories 1280, from Salisbury area, is a pretty good station, similar to Timeless Favorites . Very weak signal where I live though {maybe it's the trees or above ground cables where I live}.. Like I said before, those signals usually come on later in the mornings until around 7 pm.

Question.. 1240 AM Heaven Radio in Matthews simulcasts on 104.3 FM. Why can't 1280 or 1150 do the same?

 

[Mike Sheridan]

What do you think about the oldies format? am I on the wrong track?


Yes and no... Standards, although I enjoy the format very much only had a brief fling on WSOC-AM from 1981-1985. It never generated the kind of numbers that the standards stations achieved in markets like Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Buffalo. I think you have an older population here who sticks with current Country, even Classic Country didn't do that well here.

I hear people every day say how much they miss Oldies, and Smooth Jazz. The trouble is we're all 50+ and nobody cares about that group. We are too hard to reach and too set in our buying habits they say. I'd like to see someone prove them wrong but until they do we are stuck with radio the way it is.

 

[hschutte]

I'm in my 40s and feel the same.. If it's not rock or today's country it doesn't count in charlotte radio. I wonder what it's like for people 65 and older.. Don't tell me they are able to sit back relaxed listening to the greatest hits from the Who or Led Zep..... I know it raises my blood pressure..

 

[nuffsaid]

Great thread! Yes the "oldies" are most likely geared to the 35-64 demo but if you look at that demo, they are the ones that have the money. A good oldies station would certainly have a great opportunity in Charlotte but it is not likely going to happen. If you look around the dial who would or could make that leap? A station that ranks in the Arbitron top 5 will make money and the most part format does not make any difference. The agency folks are buying numbers and a top 5 station will produce huge revenues.

 

[test123]

Question.. 1240 AM Heaven Radio in Matthews simulcasts on 104.3 FM. Why can't 1280 or 1150 do the same?

104.3 is a translator. The FCC started allowing AM stations to simulcast on translators some time ago. Getting one is easier said than done.

The Commission will not allow stand alone AM stations like WSAT to apply for new translators. The translator has to be associated with a FM at first. They could purchase one if one was available for sale and fit inside their coverage area. If one was for sale I am not sure if Buddy could afford to buy it.

WAVO is part of a group (GHB) that owns a FM station so they technically could apply for one. I am not completely up on the rules but the 104.3 might keep them from doing that. A translator is designed to fill in a station's coverage area. The FM that GHB owns is in Waxhaw. It has pretty good coverage in Rock Hill. That might keep WAVO from being able to apply for one.

GHB bought a translator for WAME in Statesville so they are known to do this.

I would like to see the Commission open up TV channels 5 and 6 (abandoned when Digital TV came to pass) to extend the FM broadcast band. The Japanese FM broadcast band already starts at 76 MHz. This would allow a place to go for lower powered AM stations like WSAT and WAVO.

t123

 

[Kent Dorsey]

Thanks for all of the great comments... please keep the dialogue up...
I came up with an idea you could have an oldies format, that each year on January 1st you could add a new year of oldies to your playlist... January 1st, 2013 comes around and you add music from the year 1973... the next year 1974, etc... but even that limits itself after awhile.
When I had the Sunday night oldies show, I tried playing some album cuts from 70's artists - and I am not sure that worked because... people like FAMILIARITY... darn it.
I worked in radio 1978-1984, and again on a Sunday night oldies show from 2006 to 2009. We had 7.2 listeners per Sunday night - 3.9 of which we were pretty sure were coherent. So I am so far out of the loop on what folks want in formats and what works in radio I have little idea.
Let me put a plug in for you try these tunes out on youtube or somewhere: "From There To Back Again" or "Spring Vacation" by the Beach Boys, "Just Before Dawn" or "Beautiful Friction" by the Fixx, and "Clockwork Angels" or "The Wreckers" by Rush... maybe something will appeal to ya...

 

[w00t]

I would like to see the Commission open up TV channels 5 and 6 (abandoned when Digital TV came to pass) to extend the FM broadcast band. The Japanese FM broadcast band already starts at 76 MHz. This would allow a place to go for lower powered AM stations like WSAT and WAVO.

Lower TV channels have not entirely been abandoned. WCYB/Bristol is still on RF channel 5 (but they want to move).

 

[unitron]

Regarding new music on oldies radio, the standards format actually does include it. Most of the songs are new versions of older hits, while a few just sound like they were recorded in the 40s but with much better technology.

Still, there are rock and roll songs being recorded now, and some standards stations are playing them. One I particularly hate is "I Got Rhythm" by Brian Wilson, which is a jazz standard. That's a song that just shouldn't be rock and roll.

Other new recordings of rock and roll classics can be heard on standards radio. In fact, classic rock and roll shows up in the format anyway. I haven't heard "Rock Around the Clock" on the satellite format on my station but it probably airs on the local morning show, which has considerably more rock and roll than the rest of the programming.

People northeast of Charlotte, and in the UNCC area, can hear this format on 1280. On the south end of town, there is another station on 1150 which is more traditional in its approach. They don't play hardly any rock and roll. For all practical purposes, both stations have daytime-only signals.

Haven't heard Wilson's take on Gershwin yet, but I always liked the version by The Happenings from '67.

 

[turkeydance]

2 things:
1. TV leads with the AARP demographic for drugs. any national network broadcast is ED after ED remedy! radio?
2. 'oldies' is relative. 'standards' is not. ex: White Christmas is standard. Happy Christmas is oldies/standard/whatever.
TMI:
*oldies* are my grandparents CD collection (no i-anything for them).
*standards* are what most grandparents and grandchildren can sing-a-long to.
so:
yes, oldies would work for a 15-year(?)-range.
pick your age-range and fire when ready.
standards win with the 3-month Christmas binge.

 

[test123]

Lower TV channels have not entirely been abandoned. WCYB/Bristol is still on RF channel 5 (but they want to move).

I stand corrected. I knew there were VHF Digital TV stations (WTVI in Charlotte is on Channel 11) but was not aware there were Digital TV stations below channel 7. Learn something new everyday.

t123

 

[Steve.Gates]

What do you think about the oldies format? am I on the wrong track?


Yes and no... Standards, although I enjoy the format very much only had a brief fling on WSOC-AM from 1981-1985. It never generated the kind of numbers that the standards stations achieved in markets like Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Buffalo. I think you have an older population here who sticks with current Country, even Classic Country didn't do that well here.

I hear people every day say how much they miss Oldies, and Smooth Jazz. The trouble is we're all 50+ and nobody cares about that group. We are too hard to reach and too set in our buying habits they say. I'd like to see someone prove them wrong but until they do we are stuck with radio the way it is.

My Opinion Is Simple --- IF The OLDIE SONG Made the Top-100 Billboard In Its Time, Then It Should Get Added To The PlayList. Plain And Simple. No Matter What Its Status. This, IMHO, Would Allow An ''Oldies'' Station To Stand Out While Playing {somewhat} Obscure Hits Against The ''Run In The Ground'' Sound Of Traditional Oldies. Steve.

 

[yugoidar]

Steve, your criteria (making the Top 100 from 1955-1999 alone) would result in a playlist of over *23,000 songs.

It's been proven time and time again, that a long playlist is a recipe for failure. Most ratings-successful stations playing past hits, no matter what the format, usually rely on much, much shorter playlists of only a few hundred songs.

*Joel Whitburn (data compiled from "Billboard" magazine charts)

 

[nuffsaid]

23,000 songs is way more than a station could ever use. Why is it some people think that a huge playlist is necessary to having a winning format. Correctly played a smaller playlist will satisfy way more people. We all know that listeners are in and out during the broadcast day.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

23,000 songs is way more than a station could ever use. Why is it some people think that a huge playlist is necessary to having a winning format. Correctly played a smaller playlist will satisfy way more people. We all know that listeners are in and out during the broadcast day.

I wrote this once before but I guess the post didn't stick. It's well known that a huge playlist loses out to a well researched playlist of proven hits. It also results in the typical oldies station sounding very stale after awhile. Why not have a large category of songs in lunar rotation but no more than 1 or 2 in a typical hour, just to add a little spice.

 

[unitron]

Steve, your criteria (making the Top 100 from 1955-1999 alone) would result in a playlist of over *23,000 songs.
...

Well, that sounds like it might be enough to get started with. ;D

You could promo yourself as doing no repeat months. :

 

[tylerSC]

Lower TV channels have not entirely been abandoned. WCYB/Bristol is still on RF channel 5 (but they want to move).

I stand corrected. I knew there were VHF Digital TV stations (WTVI in Charlotte is on Channel 11) but was not aware there were Digital TV stations below channel 7. Learn something new everyday.

t123

Digital TV does not work very well on low VHF due to noise and interference. And it is even problematic for HiVHF unless the stations have a decent power level. There is WSPA RF7 in Spartanburg, WLOS RF13 in Asheville, and RF11 in Charlotte and Durham. And there is also an RF3 network affiliate in Roanoke, VA. But digital TV has worked out better for the most part on UHF, which is why WBTV Channel 3 is actually RF23, and WSOC Channel 9 is actually RF34. Both stations have strong signals with a clear digital picture, and I receive them good down here in GVL, SC, especially WBTV at 100%. And WGHP Fox8 in Greensboro actually moved back to UHF35 after they could not get a good digital signal on RF8.