Oldies / Classic Hits

[rbrucecarter5]

#2 in New York
#4 in Los Angeles
#4 and #6 in Chicago
#5 in Dallas
#4 in Philadephia

Tell me again why Houston doesn't have the format?

 

[Transisterman]

Lack of Program Directors who know how to program the format, lazy folks who just let the computer choose the music, so you have a smaller music list. Program Directors who don't have the knowledge of the music, so when they do try to program it comes out as a mish mash. Program Directors who just don't get it. Sales Managers and General Managers who forget that a radio station has two category of customers. Paying (advertisers) and non-paying (listeners). You have enough non-paying customers, you can charge a true rate card to the paying customers. Those stations where the format is up in the ratings have P. D's. and upper managers who get it.
Fact is that when Robert W. Morgan and the Real Don Steele were alive and working together at KRTH in Los Angeles, the station was like the number 1 or 2 biller in the country, even though the ratings put the station in the lower half of the top 10 in terms of ratings.
Stations will not hire the Legacy jocks, who listeners have heard of or works during the time when the oldies were current. One of the legendary jocks from KHJ works at a Walmart in Houston, Why? Because the managers are afraid of success or program a "company" way.

 

[radiogooroo]

How did KLDE do in its last few books?

 

[charles123]

#2 in New York
#4 in Los Angeles
#4 and #6 in Chicago
#5 in Dallas
#4 in Philadephia

Tell me again why Houston doesn't have the format?

One word: Stupidity

 

[stan]

Stations will not hire the Legacy jocks, who listeners have heard of or works during the time when the oldies were current. One of the legendary jocks from KHJ works at a Walmart in Houston, Why? Because the managers are afraid of success or program a "company" way.

This is just wrong, and shows how moronic the people are who are programming these days. Of course, Bill Drake is also deceased.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

How did KLDE do in its last few books?

They did it to themselves - they had a really strange playlist. I wonder who compiled it? Oldies (eh - classic hits) done right like it is in the markets I listed should produce similar results.

 

[radiobop]

I stand ready to consult anyone contemplating oldies in Houston with a library of 97% of songs charting on the Billboard Top 40 from 1955 through 1965 on CD and digitized plus 99% of the Top 30 from 1960-1969 on CD and digitized...(not to mention about 75% of the total songs charting on the R&B, Country and Pop charts from 1944-1954 and Pop, Big Band and Swing charts from 1930-1946)...

 

[foursider]

Harold, you hit right at the heart of why an oldies station can't seem to make it in Houston; and why the last one died a slow and painful death. Your selection of music is all over the "oldies" category; with that mix of rock, MOR, pop, country, rock, R&B and some big bands. That's what makes your internet stations such a joy to listen to.

As one of the other posters mentioned; there haven't been any program directors or GMs around who understood all of those and they didn't know how to program them. About the last one alive would be Paul Berlin; and the rock PDs all made fun of him, even though he brought fame and fortune to KNUZ with Top 40 rock. But, he also understood the big band music which gave birth to a lot of the R&B that came along later. The Tommy Dorseys, Della Reeses and Nat King Coles. That's why KQUE had such a loyal following and diverse audience up until the day it went away.

If all you do is rock oldies, or R&B oldies, or country oldies; you won't last long, unless you have a PD who really wants to work hard. Most will limit their playlists to the music THEY grew up listening to. And they they think those are "oldies".

 

[secondchoice]

You would think that somebody with a "sub top 15" beauty contest, or "sub 5" in the money demo they are trying bill with a "market covering signal"* would at least try Citadel's Cumulus's true Oldies Channel. I know that some people hate Scott Shannon, but the music is OK. It did well in Atlanta on 106.7 until Citadel wanted younger demo's and went local with Atlanta's Greatest Hits. Citadel took over caned the morning show and this station has tanked 6+. If some one tries Oldies, at least have a good AM Drive. Randy and Spiff (former morning guys at 106.7) are not under any non compete clauses and are available. You could save paying any moving costs and with a TI and letting them do the show from Atlanta with a producer in Houston switching any on air calls to Atlanta.

*This might even work on AM but with the T'storms and showers around the Gulf and the general decline of AM this would be very very hard.

 

[CaptainShowbiz]

Radiobop, Surely you don't think lack of physical copies of the songs are what's keeping Houston from having an oldie station. This is a top 5 market, and every song one would consider playing is available to stations in pristine digital quality WAV files. Anyway, a sure way to tank a station would be to play ALL those songs that made the charts. I've done music tests, and sadly many of my favorites are not remembered by the average listener AT ALL. Gotta have a disciplined list. But to the original query, the main problem with radio in Houston in general is that we got the short end of the stick in signals. KLDE was a big success at 94.5, but when CC switched them to 107.5 they dropped a couple of points immediately. All these marginal signals will never achieve great ratings. Now if Mix 96.5 went Classic Hits--that work work big time!

 

[KFodor]

I have just re-dubbed an entire oldies library...1950's to 1980's.

I found almost every song in a 1,300 song library either on CD or available in wav file uploads.

The 2 songs I could not find...I have purchased pristine 45 RPM copies of...and will be dubbing
those to digital.

Virtually any song you want to play (except for the real stiffs and non hit B-sides) are available to
radio

On another front, the "original" oldies format will not get the demographics needed for advertisers to buy the radio station. That's the problem. Not the DJ's, PD's, Owners, Consultants...it's the advertisers...get over it!

 

[radiobop]

The old rules about demographics are completely antiquated--stuff that Nielsen/Hooper/Arbitron rely on that was developed in the 50s...age breakouts like 18-24 / 25-34 / 35-54...are completely out-of-whack with today's reality. Eighty is the new 60. People live longer, work longer and share common interests more than ever with earlier generations. Ratings mean nothing with the manipulative techniques stations used to game the PPM system. The 3-4 major radio groups are fooling themselves thinking they know the way to success. Bring back personality radio with local presence and you will knock the socks off the Pandoras, the iHearts and nationalized formats in a iHeartbeat!

Of course, the music isn't the message...it's the presentation, the music selection and what song follows next, the tempo, the jingles, the graphics, the flow, the local relevance and PERSONALITIES who know and relate to the LOCAL listener in a fun package. Entertaining personalities, not liner-card readers or voice-trackers working in another city 1,500 miles away...or, gasp, Ryan Secrest, being everything to everybody...

CBS knows more about this than anyone...but they are driven by the trends as much as anyone else...

 

[Boss Jock]

Harold you are absolutely correct. Also with all the voice tracking of out of town talent, there is no longer the overnight, latenight training ground that most of us went through.

 

[KFodor]

The old rules about demographics are completely antiquated--stuff that Nielsen/Hooper/Arbitron rely on that was developed in the 50s...age breakouts like 18-24 / 25-34 / 35-54...are completely out-of-whack with today's reality. Eighty is the new 60. People live longer, work longer and share common interests more than ever with earlier generations. Ratings mean nothing with the manipulative techniques stations used to game the PPM system. The 3-4 major radio groups are fooling themselves thinking they know the way to success. Bring back personality radio with local presence and you will knock the socks off the Pandoras, the iHearts and nationalized formats in a iHeartbeat!

Of course, the music isn't the message...it's the presentation, the music selection and what song follows next, the tempo, the jingles, the graphics, the flow, the local relevance and PERSONALITIES who know and relate to the LOCAL listener in a fun package. Entertaining personalities, not liner-card readers or voice-trackers working in another city 1,500 miles away...or, gasp, Ryan Secrest, being everything to everybody...

CBS knows more about this than anyone...but they are driven by the trends as much as anyone else...

But, the advertisers don't care that "80 is the new 60". Have you tried talking to them? I've sat in meetings with a salesperson and client and had the client ask..."When are you guys going to start playing 80's music? I need young people in here...not the over 60 crowd."

You guys blame young programmers....maybe you should be blaming young and 40 something business owners for their bias here. I have made every argument you have brought up with salespeople and clients...and have been told "we want the under 60 crowd".

The personality radio you want will never come back. Live...all the time local radio isn't coming back either. And it's not "the presentation". Look at the research. Ask a listener what they want and they say "less talk".

As to the jocks programming the music? How well did they do? Read Ron Jacobs book on KHJ. Read his memos...He was bitching at them almost constantly about poor music flow, repeating their favorite songs too much...starting sets with slow songs, etc. etc. etc. That's why stations started computerizing music selection. The jocks couldn't (or wouldn't) do it right. What sold stations like that was the music...and the fact that the format was set up so the jocks couldn't talk like the flannel mouthed DJ's of the early 60's.

I agree with you about the entertainment factor...however that can be voice tracked...if the jock tries.

I also agree that CBS-FM in New York seems to do this format best. But even they realized the oldies format needed to change with the times.

 

[KFodor]

Harold you are absolutely correct. Also with all the voice tracking of out of town talent, there is no longer the overnight, latenight training ground that most of us went through.

And, Boss Jock...I agree with you. That's sad. But, guess what? Not every small town station is owned by Clear Channel. They may automate, or use satellite programming for overnights. That's where your potential "farm team" is.

Some stations still employ part-time, weekend DJ's as well. There's another source.

And some college radio stations are training their students well. Source #3. It's just harder to get some of the kids excited about radio because the kids all want to come out of college and make $50 grand a year...which is NEVER going to happen in radio.

 

[bturner]

Some good comments here.

I must take issue with the 'less talk' response. If you bother to question further, it is not the talk but the lengthy commercial breaks and information sets the listeners have issues with. Most will say it is not so much the commercial but the irritating commercials that truly raise the red flags.

As for connecting with the audience, we need to break that down a bit. It is not so much the feeling you know the air talent by listening to the station but that you feel you can count on them to keep your world safe. In other words, if you can make the listener feel they know what is going on now, they feel safe. Doubt that? Just listen to a listener that discovered a flooded intersection that was not announced on the radio when they were listening for that very information. Listeners get the same sort of feeling when dark clouds roll in and the station they're listening to makes no reference to the weather. It is the human condition and our almost instinctive qualities at work here.

And don't ever discount personality. Some say personality radio is dead. I say have you ever listened to talk radio. How many listen for the rhetoric versus the feeling they know the host?

 

[radiobop]

Read Ron Jacobs book on KHJ. Read his memos...He was bitching at them almost constantly about poor music flow, repeating their favorite songs too much...starting sets with slow songs, etc. etc. etc. That's why stations started computerizing music selection. The jocks couldn't (or wouldn't) do it right. What sold stations like that was the music...and the fact that the format was set up so the jocks couldn't talk like the flannel mouthed DJ's of the early 60's.

I've read Ron Jacobs book and all the memos he banged out on a manual typewriter and you can understand why KHJ was so successful. The station skyrocketed to #1 in a matter of months and to read some of Ron's memos, you'd think that the jocks were a bunch of lazy losers...not following the music selection rules nor answering the BossLine between songs. Ron Jacobs gave a damn and like a great football coach, he could produce a winning season with mediocre players. Show me a local station PD today that would do that...oh, I forgot CC fired the PDs in most of their markets and with Premium Choice programming piped in from the ether, who needs a PD anyway?

The blame is not only on the stations...advertising agencies and media buyers know what they grew up with and PPM and Internet Radio have messed with their frame of reference...Triton and Nielsen keep tinkering with their Internet Radio ratings algorithms trying to equate Internet listening with terrestrial radio ratings...1 min tune-ins vs 5-min tune-ins converting tune-ins to AQH...IT DOESN'T WORK...you can't get demographic data with different underlying platforms...PPM is even more laughable...don't get me started on inferences made off of that flawed measurement technology...

 

[Mediafrog+]

PPM is even more laughable...don't get me started on inferences made off of that flawed measurement technology...

So you would rather go back to the diaries, which were too often complete works of fiction?

 

[rbrucecarter5]

San Antonio - KONO oldies just scored #2 in the ratings, almost #1.

And it isn't just over 60 crowd listening. A 15 year old girl told me about KHVL 1490. Kids are re-discovering the music, because it is good music. It is played in stores, restaurants - because people like it. It is forming the basis of half the songs on Glee, a very highly rated TV show. Many current artists are citing the oldies artists as their inspiration. The Beatles collection sales on iTunes went through the roof. A whole lot of evidence that oldies as a genre has enormous appeal, and the ratings in major markets proves it out.

 

[johndavis]

San Antonio - KONO oldies just scored #2 in the ratings, almost #1.

Have you listened to KONO lately?