Oldies=Dead format

[amos]

yeah, i have nothing against instrumentals that were hits... telstar, stranger on the shore by aker bilk, etc. i just didn't know that bill black's combo cut. and also, elvis' version fits their format and was much bigger.

i would have preferred linda ronsdadt's "when will i be loved" but that's really because of my age.

i'd sure love to hear the drake jingles... and pat patterson!!!

-amos

 

[Kabrich]

hey randy, its the 1st time this decade i've used Mass Appeal Format in talking about oldies..(call me crazy but family friendly,familier music that everybody knows and can sing along to= mass appeal to me) yet i hear this Mantra daily on this board about shrinking demographics and blah, blah blah... i have no problem with stations in this format moving things up to the 70's .. but as much as you would like to forget john lennon, The Beatles or Elvis[/i] they will outlive both of us, and that part of the 60's is not forgotten by the people who listen to "Oldies'/classic Hits radio. they expect it.."it's an oldies station isn't it?? it would be like going to McDonald's and finding out they don't serve Big Mac's anymore because they're OLD! invented in the 60's...YECCH if they are not there(the audience is not there). i don't think Anybody would call the 70's or 80's the Greatest decades of Rock & Roll.. i lived it, you did too...it Sucked! in comparison. the 70's are fine mixed with some of the monster hits of the 60's. the 80's-90's are another format altogether and don't belong.

My brother, who turns 52 this year, never liked the Beatles nor was ever a fan of them in the 70s. I could not understand it at the time. To him, The Eagles were his Beatles. As we saw more and more research that musical tastes were cemented @ 16-18 years of age, it now makes perfect sense. It also explains with 25-54 and 18-49 ad dollars making up the vast majority of radio dollars, no one wants to program to a 54 year old or above.

60s based Oldies are not mass appeal - in fact they disappeared as the constant "muzak" in Hooter's Resturants over 10 years ago (unless your definition of Mass Appeal is 55-Death). Hooters found out the same thing radio has - 60's based Oldies stations are clearly out of the mainstream radio business.

 

[Christopher Chenn]

RIGHT ON! Especially when you rotate only 300 songs.

 

[GoodTimesandGreatOldies]

When an Oldies station is done RIGHT (with a large playlist) it WILL work! Scott Shannon has hade great success with the True Oldies Channel Network. Go to www.wyay.com to hear a great Oldies station. And I totally disagree with the remark about younger folks not really digging the Oldies, they do!!!!! And yes, Oldies Radio is on its` way BACK to the Triad. This time, it will be done right!

 

[Kabrich]

When an Oldies station is done RIGHT (with a large playlist) it WILL work! Scott Shannon has hade great success with the True Oldies Channel Network. Go to www.wyay.com to hear a great Oldies station. And I totally disagree with the remark about younger folks not really digging the Oldies, they do!!!!! And yes, Oldies Radio is on its` way BACK to the Triad. This time, it will be done right!

As proven OVER and Over, Oldies stations die with large playlists.

KRTH died with 3,000 songs.....began to take off in 1991 when Drake cut it to less than 1,000 - and came into its own when Mike Phillips pulled it down below 300.

The only heritage Oldies formated stations that were beaten by another oldies station were those such as KOOL in Phoenix (when Bonneville beat them) and San Diego - and no surprise - the heritage stations were playing 1,000+ playlists.

As for Oldies stations - as just shown on the Simpsons less than 30 minutes, where Bart's Teacher is in her car singing "Another Day" by McCartney - and the kids on the corner all laugh and say "HAHA! That crazy lady is singing a million year old song".

That says it all.

 

[vchimpanzee]

my thoughts on wkix:

not putting myself up as an expert, but just some thoughts and observations.

1) some of the music is spot on, but some cuts seem out of place. instrmental of "don't be cruel??" too much country (mamas don't let your babies, etc). i'd rather they play more later 60s and early 70s cuts, and less "folk" type (hang down your head tom dooley, etc) also, i heard a few cuts that seemed.. um... like it was the wrong version of the song. i don't mean the wrong artist, but rather a recording by the correct artist that wasn't the one played on-air back in the day. sorry, i can't remember the particular songs.

All of this sounds good to me. They're leaning in the right direction and they need to just push across the lineinto good music. Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Perry Como ....

2) i love hearing those old PAMS jingles. i don't think that it's only old radio guys that enjoy them, especially since they're marketing themselves as a return to their heritage. i'd like to hear more jingles per hour, and i think later jingles (aka drake jingles) would add to the station. personally that's the wkix that i remember.

This could be enjoyable.

 

[Prais]

Chimp said;
All of this sounds good to me. They're leaning in the right direction and they need to just push across the lineinto good music. Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Perry Como ....

Though I LOVE that genre, I have tyo say "NO!!!!!"

Thats the WWII generation, NOT the boomers. "Oldies" are for BOOMERS, You'll NEVER get alot of boomers playing "Tony Bennett."

To get booomers you need roughly Rock Around the Clock, Elvis, Beatles through 1985-ish. Chimp, Jeff Rollins or Chick Watkins are great dj's - but NOT for Boomers.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Chimp said;
All of this sounds good to me. They're leaning in the right direction and they need to just push across the lineinto good music. Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Perry Como ....

Though I LOVE that genre, I have tyo say "NO!!!!!"

Thats the WWII generation, NOT the boomers. "Oldies" are for BOOMERS, You'll NEVER get alot of boomers playing "Tony Bennett."

To get booomers you need roughly Rock Around the Clock, Elvis, Beatles through 1985-ish. Chimp, Jeff Rollins or Chick Watkins are great dj's - but NOT for Boomers.

Tony Bennett was on MTV just a few years ago., Young people like him. Or did.

And who's going after "boomers"? Curtis was going after over-55 listeners.

 

[Prais]

I've read the whole thread and can't figure out,

Chimp,
Who is Curtis? If he is playing those artists you suggest, he's NOT chasing boomers, but boomers parents, a crowd that needs LOCAL salespeople who are great. If he is smart, Funeral homes, nursing homes, car dealers, travel agents, high end restaurants and various medicines are categories of interest.

BTW, Oldies stations die with large playlists. The magic number is NOT 300 - but it's NOT 3000, either.

WGVU am is a local npr "oldies" station. They must have a 3k song playlist, and it often sounds like STIFF CITY. I LOVE oldies, but can't sit through the crap.

 

[XTalker]

Here are some interesting things to chew on:

1- The Beatles library that tests well nationally will never test well in North Carolina. You have to remember that back in the day, the Beatles were heathens and hated by those in the bible belt - long haired freaks. My PD in the 60s would only let us play the very biggest hits. When a new album came out, he would scratch out deep cuts so you couldn't play them. Instead, the play list was more heavily Motown. While stations in the northeast were playing everytning the Beatles put out, stations in the south were playing deeper into the Motown library (which explaines to some degree why beach music is so popular with natives.

2- Research can be very misleading in several ways - if you don't test the right songs, you don't get the right answers. And if you don't ask the right people, you don't get the right answers. I recall inheriting a music test from a previous PD who had, in an attempt to save money, removed a key question from the screening questions. The original intent was to determine what songs would attract listeners from an AC (this was 1990) station that played some 70s and 80s songs) and be tolerated by the core oldies listeners. They should have screened for people who cumed both the AC and the Oldies station, and asked an additional question about which was their favorite to identify each station's core. Since they left out the second question, they ended up not being able to tell which part of the group were core to either station. As a result, there were a lot of mid-chart late 60s and 70s songs that tested way higher than they should have, and ended up in a power rotation. While they may had added a little flavor to the oldies format, they just didn't belong in power rotation. They also tested a lot of novelty songs that should have never been played with any regularity on the station, but since the test audience only heard the song once, it would rate higher. The test was a waste from the beginning, but the GM insisted on basing the rotations and the complete library on that flawed test. Research can be a great tool, but you MUST rely on a PD who has knowledge of the format, and any regional quirks.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I've read the whole thread and can't figure out,

Chimp,
Who is Curtis? If he is playing those artists you suggest, he's NOT chasing boomers, but boomers parents, a crowd that needs LOCAL salespeople who are great. If he is smart, Funeral homes, nursing homes, car dealers, travel agents, high end restaurants and various medicines are categories of interest.

http://triangle.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2010/02/22/daily12.html

I didn't actually hear them but there's another thread that suggests he is.

 

[Prais]

Chimp,
Your posts are crazy. What do you smoke when you post?

Curtis is a company you never mentioned - but expect people to know.

Then you say, "I didn't actually hear them but there's another thread that suggests he is."

What the hell does THAT SENTENCE mean???

 

[VODood]

1- The Beatles library that tests well nationally will never test well in North Carolina. You have to remember that back in the day, the Beatles were heathens and hated by those in the bible belt - long haired freaks. My PD in the 60s would only let us play the very biggest hits. When a new album came out, he would scratch out deep cuts so you couldn't play them. Instead, the play list was more heavily Motown. While stations in the northeast were playing everytning the Beatles put out, stations in the south were playing deeper into the Motown library (which explaines to some degree why beach music is so popular with natives.

Have to disagree about The Beatles, present day. Having programmed the format, in particular WTRG/Raleigh, Beatles are quite popular. Have to remember the big influx of "northeners" over the last 20 years. WTRG played Beatles with much success.

Conversely, Motown did not test well. I was quite surprised by that. Being from Cleveland Motown is huge... but in Raleigh.... low POP scores. We removed "Motown Monday" after an AMT showed low POP for Motown songs. The feature was burned out. We re-branded theme weekends as "Motown and Soul" to bring in Muscles Shoals, Atlantic and Chicago, as well as Beach.

Now, "Downeast" it may be different.....but most oldies/classic hits stations core is 68-73 these days. All depends on market, FM or AM, target (there's $$$ in P35-64) and other factors.

Here in Akron I'm with WAKR-AM (Alan Freed, Jack Paar, Scott Muni and Charlie Greer are alums). Oldies on AM allows for skewing older. We're more 64-68 core, peaking at '74 and dipping into powers from 56-63 once every other hour. We have news top and bottom and pro sports... we're a full service. The imaging is contemporary for the most part, but do use 60s PAMS jingles we licensed and some other staging that works well with pre-63 titles. Our cume is 60+.... so we're going to skew older. Playing to our strength.

2- Research can be very misleading in several ways - if you don't test the right songs, you don't get the right answers. And if you don't ask the right people, you don't get the right answers.

Very true.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Chimp,
Your posts are crazy. What do you smoke when you post?

Curtis is a company you never mentioned - but expect people to know.

Then you say, "I didn't actually hear them but there's another thread that suggests he is."

What the hell does THAT SENTENCE mean???

I thought everyone on the Raleigh-Greensboro board knew who Curtis was.

I meant I didn't hear certain artists (the ones I suggested) at the time I listened, but on the board someone suggested those artists were played.

It doesn't really matter whether I like the station, since I don't have the car with the really good antenna that could pick up WKIX in Winston-Salem.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Then you say, "I didn't actually hear them but there's another thread that suggests he is."

I found the post.

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/in...lies=13;sesc=053ab88dd494c6bfb9ac810014954659

 

[jmobooku]

Hey BoDude: Good you hear again...and sending out tunes for old and dying peoples in Ojio. hope you have some good Snookie Lansen in the mix-master.

 

[GoodTimesandGreatOldies]

I totally disagree with alot of this... When Oldies is done RIGHT, the ratings are great and many younger folks listen in... Just look at 100,000 watt WYAY-FM True Oldies 106.7 in Atlanta!!! Great music never dies! Does anyone ever say that Mozart is "SO 1780`s?????). The great Oldies will be around FOREVER and the younger folks really DIG them. Alot of the new stuff today really sucks.

 

[VODood]

Not about who likes the format as far as listeners, it's the demos it attracts, which let's face it is primarily P35-64. "Oldies', ne classic hits, is not a P25-54 format. If you do well in that cell, more power to you. For most it's 35-64 with a core cell of 45-54 that you're dealing with.

Now, the real issue is advertisers. Not local, national. Media buyers, mostly, only look at P25-54. Is it stupid? Yes. But that's how it is. Larger market stations are going to want 25-54. Mid to smaller markets can rely more on local and the 35-64 that truly is oldies/classic hits. All depends on the market and the management.

 

[allenv]

Great post VODood....Good local radio doesn't have to deal with most of these stats.. you just serve your local client to the best of your ability and things usually take care of themselves...All this is just another example of making Rocket Science out of something pretty simple as radio tends to do these days...

 

[Kabrich]

I totally disagree with alot of this... When Oldies is done RIGHT, the ratings are great and many younger folks listen in... Just look at 100,000 watt WYAY-FM True Oldies 106.7 in Atlanta!!! Great music never dies! Does anyone ever say that Mozart is "SO 1780`s?????). The great Oldies will be around FOREVER and the younger folks really DIG them. Alot of the new stuff today really sucks.

Unfortunately for you, as usual, your comments are of the world as you wish it was - not reality. Using your own statements, even WYAY in Atlanta is #20 among Persons 18-34 and even Persons 6-34 in the latest ratings. So much for younger folks really DIG them.

Unfortunately for WYAY, their billing isn't much different than #20 in the market either.