Oldies Gone In Las Vegas

[Jay F]

KQOL/Las Vegas has switched to rhythmic Hot AC "The Party".

 

[Joey1986]

More and more oldies fans are becoming alienated, unless they buy CDs or start subscribing to Sirius or XM.

 

[radiofriend1]

More and more oldies fans are becoming alienated, unless they buy CDs or start subscribing to Sirius or XM.

more & more oldies fans are just getting too old (no offense intended) for advertisers to have interest in them

most oldies stations today have an **average** age around 60

there are no 55+ spot buys. there are no 35-spot buys. if u are not strong 18-49 OR 25-54, forget it

also notice how many oldies stations have died in the past 2 yrs while VERY FEW have been replaced? doesn't that tell u something?

 

[TheFonz]

also notice how many oldies stations have died in the past 2 yrs while VERY FEW have been replaced? doesn't that tell u something?

It tells me that anyone who owns stock in radio should sell it real quick!

 

[radiofriend1]

i wasn't referring to terrestial radio in general, just the old-style oldies format

please re-read my entire post-thnx

 

[amfmsw]

Radiofriend...with thinking like that, you're not much of a friend!

There are plenty of advertising buys for 55+ listeners in the South Jersey area...they're loaded with cash. The hot catagories in this area are Real Estate for second/vacation home, retirement, lots' of 55+ communities. High end jewelery is hot! Boats/ Marine sales/storage/service is big. Investment brokers. Tax & Estate planning. Yes, those pesky phamacy needs and prescription meds. Hospitals and sport injuy rehab centers. Travel is HUGE. Banking services...hey, we gotta park that cash somewhere where we're welcomed. Station owners just need to stop looking at that nonsense about "younger demos". Hey, this 55+ crowd gets premium advertising rates too! You can buy the #1 T op 40 station for about $25. The oldies stations, all Arbitron rated, command twice that for dayparts and features. Half the audience, twice the money.

There's more, but you get the drift. It's small thinking that people over 45 aren't worth advertising to with the music they love. By the way, the average age of the #1 oldies station in this area is 51...not 60. Hell, they're still part of that stupid 25-54 demo. In fact, there is so much cash to be made with older audiences here, we have 1 AM, 1 AM/FM, and 1 FM oldies stations, 2 News/Talk, one sports, plus 2 classic rock FM's. NOT TARGETING BOOMERS IS JUST PLAIN BAD BUSINESS.

 

[radiofriend1]

Radiofriend...with thinking like that, you're not much of a friend!

There are plenty of advertising buys for 55+ listeners in the South Jersey area...they're loaded with cash. The hot catagories in this area are Real Estate for second/vacation home, retirement, lots' of 55+ communities. High end jewelery is hot! Boats/ Marine sales/storage/service is big. Investment brokers. Tax & Estate planning. Yes, those pesky phamacy needs and prescription meds. Hospitals and sport injuy rehab centers. Travel is HUGE. Banking services...hey, we gotta park that cash somewhere where we're welcomed. Station owners just need to stop looking at that nonsense about "younger demos". Hey, this 55+ crowd gets premium advertising rates too! You can buy the #1 T op 40 station for about $25. The oldies stations, all Arbitron rated, command twice that for dayparts and features. Half the audience, twice the money.

There's more, but you get the drift. It's small thinking that people over 45 aren't worth advertising to with the music they love. By the way, the average age of the #1 oldies station in this area is 51...not 60. Hell, they're still part of that stupid 25-54 demo. In fact, there is so much cash to be made with older audiences here, we have 1 AM, 1 AM/FM, and 1 FM oldies stations, 2 News/Talk, one sports, plus 2 classic rock FM's. NOT TARGETING BOOMERS IS JUST PLAIN BAD BUSINESS.

not talking small market radio and not saying no oldies stations can make it but u can't use your single oldies station as how they ALL work in ALL markets

but, by and large, oldies stations are dropping like flies because the revenue is drying up----fast. that's not opinion, it's fact

u can call 25-54 a "stupid" demo but it is THE sales demo in most radio markets today. U can target boomers (who are as young as early 40s in 2006) but u won't get many under 55 playing doowop and preBeatles music.

and this isn't me saying people over 45 are not worth targeting-this is not my opinion. it is the opinion of advertisers and ad buyers all over the country. like i said, the proof is in the pudding: if 50s/60s oldies was that great a format with that big a potential revenue stream why have MOST MARKETS IN AMERICA where oldies changed format to something else NOT had a new station pick up the format?

it's not personal, man. it is what it is and i'm only reporting what is going on in 2006's real radio world. whether it's desirable or right or i agree with it is beside the point

 

[TheFonz]

[quote i wasn't referring to terrestial radio in general, just the old-style oldies format

please re-read my entire post-thnx[/quote]


I understand your post. But here's my point. I have two '70s stations and at least five '80s stations in my market right now. If radio continues to ignore the 55+ audience (REGARDLESS of the reasons for that), what happens when THOSE audiences "age out of the demo"? With all of today's music options, there certainly aren't enough teens and twenty/thirty-somethings to replace them. And how many Talk stations can any market support?

 

[Johnny Morgan]

Displaced oldies fans...

Try turning your dial to the left. Lots of good stuff in the non-comm band, from doo-wop to 60s garage rock to pop oldies to even standards.

You just have to look around.

For example, try the Sunday Oldies Jukebox at FM 88.9 WSTB (http://www.sundayoldiesjukebox.com) or Sunday evenings and nights on 88.3 The Sting, WBWC (http://www.wbwc.com) and for standards/easy listing/big band, try WKHR 91.5 FM (http://www.wkhr.org)

Or try stations in your local area...

 

[jh]

The big national agency buys don't want 55+ but in a lot of markets, there are plenty of local advertisers seeking that demo. But in most places, news/talk, country, and AC all have larger audiences than oldies 55+. Plus country and AC also have considerably more listeners below 55.

But the latest trends show oldies KGOR in Omaha is #1 12+, so the format apparently still works some places.

 

[gr8oldies]

Left side of the dial here is all religion-and-npr all the time.

 

[amfmsw]

RF, thanks for clearing that up. I still must insist that the oldies audience is NOT a 55+ demo. That is the News/Talk demo. 60's / 70's musice with a pre-beatles hit per hour is a 45-64 group. That is not ancient. My railing is against the ad agencies that push 18-34 on advertisers.

Chrysler/Dodge buyers average age is 57. But the ad agencies for the local dealers advertise on the Active Rock station, average age: 22! 22 year olds are NOT buying 300's, minivans, Durangos or many new cars at all! Chrysler is trying to sell prime steak and potatoes to a burger and fry group, financially speaking. Dr Z doesn't get it.

Active Rock is an entry product...used/Hyundai/Kia and such. Toyota, on the other hand, has an average buyer age of 47. Toyota has passed Ford and Chrysler as the new #2 manufacturer in the US behind GM. Toyota knows who to target and how to do it. It leaves the Scion as their entry prioduct, which uses hip-hop and AA.

There are loser stations that abandoned the format because they kept trying to sell the same clients and catagories to an aging product. They needed to look at listener lifestyle wants, but ignored them. Revenue dried up. Their listeners needs changed, but they caved into their sales people who kept crying "we need younger listeners". What they relly needed was to get off their dupa and find cultivate new advertisers. WCBS-FM NY is a perfect example. You can't fit a round peg in a square hole, so they opted out.

 

[radiofriend1]

RF, thanks for clearing that up. I still must insist that the oldies audience is NOT a 55+ demo. That is the News/Talk demo. 60's / 70's musice with a pre-beatles hit per hour is a 45-64 group. That is not ancient. My railing is against the ad agencies that push 18-34 on advertisers.

that is not my opinion. you can analyze arbitron ratings to get that number-it is what it is.

plus when you think most oldies stations are centered around 1969-1970 music wise......... so the heart of that audience was in high school in the mid 50s meaning they were born around 1940..........making them between60 and 65 yrs old

it's so obvious

 

[amfmsw]

NO! You're using fuzzy math. If a song was a hit in 1970, a 15 year old kid buying the single was born in 1955, not 1940. That kid is now 51. You're way off.

 

[DougD]

Question to radio apologists on this board.

If the older demos aren't important, WHY AM I READING SO MANY ARTICLES IN MAGAZINES AND ON CNN ETC. about the importance of the BABY BOOMERS? That group is big and is going to be much bigger and have a lot of influence. But you wouldn't know it by what radio offers.

To radio, the BBs don't exist. They're too old. Aren't important. Their music is old and could only appeal to those who grew up in that era. Right. I'm 44, not 54.

Oh I get it. They're all wrong and radio as always has it right.

One clown here even said radio stations ought to de-list phone numbers so as to not deal with those pesky listeners.

Here's a thought. We pesky listeners won't turn on your station. Or patronize your advertisers either.

Radiofriend...with thinking like that, you're not much of a friend!

There are plenty of advertising buys for 55+ listeners in the South Jersey area...they're loaded with cash. The hot catagories in this area are Real Estate for second/vacation home, retirement, lots' of 55+ communities. High end jewelery is hot! Boats/ Marine sales/storage/service is big. Investment brokers. Tax & Estate planning. Yes, those pesky phamacy needs and prescription meds. Hospitals and sport injuy rehab centers. Travel is HUGE. Banking services...hey, we gotta park that cash somewhere where we're welcomed. Station owners just need to stop looking at that nonsense about "younger demos". Hey, this 55+ crowd gets premium advertising rates too! You can buy the #1 T op 40 station for about $25. The oldies stations, all Arbitron rated, command twice that for dayparts and features. Half the audience, twice the money.

There's more, but you get the drift. It's small thinking that people over 45 aren't worth advertising to with the music they love. By the way, the average age of the #1 oldies station in this area is 51...not 60. Hell, they're still part of that stupid 25-54 demo. In fact, there is so much cash to be made with older audiences here, we have 1 AM, 1 AM/FM, and 1 FM oldies stations, 2 News/Talk, one sports, plus 2 classic rock FM's. NOT TARGETING BOOMERS IS JUST PLAIN BAD BUSINESS.

not talking small market radio and not saying no oldies stations can make it but u can't use your single oldies station as how they ALL work in ALL markets

but, by and large, oldies stations are dropping like flies because the revenue is drying up----fast. that's not opinion, it's fact

u can call 25-54 a "stupid" demo but it is THE sales demo in most radio markets today. U can target boomers (who are as young as early 40s in 2006) but u won't get many under 55 playing doowop and preBeatles music.

and this isn't me saying people over 45 are not worth targeting-this is not my opinion. it is the opinion of advertisers and ad buyers all over the country. like i said, the proof is in the pudding: if 50s/60s oldies was that great a format with that big a potential revenue stream why have MOST MARKETS IN AMERICA where oldies changed format to something else NOT had a new station pick up the format?

it's not personal, man. it is what it is and i'm only reporting what is going on in 2006's real radio world. whether it's desirable or right or i agree with it is beside the point

 

[radiofriend1]

Question to radio apologists on this board.

If the older demos aren't important, WHY AM I READING SO MANY ARTICLES IN MAGAZINES AND ON CNN ETC. about the importance of the BABY BOOMERS? That group is big and is going to be much bigger and have a lot of influence. But you wouldn't know it by what radio offers.

To radio, the BBs don't exist. They're too old. Aren't important. Their music is old and could only appeal to those who grew up in that era. Right. I'm 44, not 54.

u are complaining to the wrong people--- radio doesn't target 55+ because ADVERTISERS aren't placing buys targeting the boomers. business go after potential buyers who will use their product today and into the future, not people who used it in the past and may still today IF they have the money.

is radio supposed to take a hammer to the heads of advertisers and MAKE THEM change their thinking because some in the biz can't let go of the oldies format?

i will again pose the question: if radio groups are so money hungry and profit is EVERYTHING then don't u think that IF there was gold in them thar hills (55+) that there would be oldies format wars instead of the format bailing out at the rate of 2 per week?

u can't have it both ways........ if radio is as greedy and bottom-line obsessed as so many insist then there must NOT BE THAT MUCH MONEY IN TARGETING older listeners

 

[amfmsw]

RF1: Two Points:

You keep insisting the "Oldies" format is a 55+ demo. You're wrong, it is a 45-64 demo. My 83 yo father is a WWII vet in a nursing home. He would be a "55+" demo. That "+" sign has significance. He would never listen to oldies pop/rock mx.

The other point is, could it be the agencies are all WET? They are missing the point, as I believe you are. That it is a huge mistake to not target boomers. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean they're right.

 

[radiofriend1]

RF1: Two Points:

You keep insisting the "Oldies" format is a 55+ demo. You're wrong, it is a 45-64 demo. My 83 yo father is a WWII vet in a nursing home. He would be a "55+" demo. That "+" sign has significance. He would never listen to oldies pop/rock mx.

The other point is, could it be the agencies are all WET? They are missing the point, as I believe you are. That it is a huge mistake to not target boomers. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean they're right.

if u are playing mainly 60's music u are targeting 55+ listeners. centered at 1966 and born in 1950 (typical birth date of avg listener), they are 56 yrs old today

even if u are centered at 1969 today MOST OF YOUR LISTENERS are mid 50's and beyond..............and shrinking every year

agencies all wet? when u consider most people at ad agencies are in their 30's................their perspective is that anything aimed at people over 50 is old folks music.............not saying that is right but that is what it is. u also have station gm's now in their 30's and their perspective is "gee why target people advertisers aren't interested in targeting?"

 

[davideduardo]

RF1: Two Points:

You keep insisting the "Oldies" format is a 55+ demo. You're wrong, it is a 45-64 demo. My 83 yo father is a WWII vet in a nursing home. He would be a "55+" demo. That "+" sign has significance. He would never listen to oldies pop/rock mx.

The other point is, could it be the agencies are all WET? They are missing the point, as I believe you are. That it is a huge mistake to not target boomers. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean they're right.

Reality check: agencies do not determine demos for the most part. Agencies create campaigns for the client's pre-established demo, which is why Heather and Dawn and Bambi in the media department have no ability to change the demos of a buy, no matter how much an out-of-demo station whines.

Big national spot advertisers will take the specs from, let's say, P&G, and create a campaign around the demos and even lifestyle considerations the client has established in designing th eproduct, its packaging and distribution models.

The biggest issue in advertising to 55+ is that the return on investment, or ROI, is weak. It takes more advertising to change habits of older consumers, often creating a loss on each sale. Add to that the issue that older consumers can best be targeted by things like direct mail and specialized magazines and you have very little radio usage by agencies for this demo. On the other hand, in markets where most business is direct, oldies and even standards can do well, as they are dealing with predominantly retail accounts that do not have age dictates (although much coop has format and age dictates, too).