Oldies - It Ain't Dead Yet!

[motherscratcher]

For nearly 20 years I have been involved with Oldies as a programmer and air personality in markets ranging from Los Angeles to San Francisco to Jacksonville to Savannah. In every single case, the company I left decided that oldies wasn't going to work for them financially. They either flipped it within a year after my departure or, most recently, they made me and my staff company casualties. It's been discussed on this board time and time again that ad agencies aren't interested in that older demo anymore. We all know that they are staffed by folks that are in their 20's and 30's and they certainly couldn't care less about buying time on an oldies station. The question becomes, are the agencies serving their clients best interest?

Adults over 45 generally have far more spendable income than an 18-44 year old. They (actually, "We") are not as "brand loyal" as we used to be. We shop at warehouse clubs now instead of being loyal to department stores. So much for "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". The business that gives us the best price is where we tend to flock. We aren't stupid. We try to make our money go as far as we can. We buy sportier cars than the 45-64 year olds of yester-year. Have you seen how lucrative the plastic surgery business has become in the last decade? We DON'T want to get old as fast as our parents did!

Our music will always be sacred to us. It's when stations get away from the oldies genre and try to incorporate disco and classic rock into the mix....that's when they fail. Now, it's taboo to play anything prior to the Beatle era because, honestly, it makes the station sound too old! Oldies stations (or classic hits, if you prefer), can move deeper into the 70's so long as it's done cautiously. They can play some disco/dance music BUT it can't be part of the regular rotation. It needs to be showcased as a "special" feature.

I've had a lot of success with this format over the years. It's very sad to see a lot of companies throwing in the towel. Oldies can be saved by having a fun presentation, great creative imaging and less experimentation with songs that should be left alone.

A good sales department that understands the format CAN make the money come in. It may not be the heavy-hitting national business but certainly the locals.

I really hope I have the opportunity to program another one of these great stations. If you're lucky enough to be programming one now you really need to take a real good luck at what's on the air. Is it the same-old "Good times & great oldies" imaging over and over? Or, are you being creative and being comtemporary? Do your jox talk about poodle skirts and surfboards? If they do, you're dead! Freshen it up and save your station while there's still time!

I would be interested in hearing what you guys have to say......

 

[KlunkLetter]

> For nearly 20 years I have been involved with Oldies as a
> programmer and air personality in markets ranging from Los
> Angeles to San Francisco to Jacksonville to Savannah. In
> every single case, the company I left decided that oldies
> wasn't going to work for them financially. They either
> flipped it within a year after my departure or, most
> recently, they made me and my staff company casualties. It's
> been discussed on this board time and time again that ad
> agencies aren't interested in that older demo anymore. We
> all know that they are staffed by folks that are in their
> 20's and 30's and they certainly couldn't care less about
> buying time on an oldies station. The question becomes, are
> the agencies serving their clients best interest?
>
> Adults over 45 generally have far more spendable income than
> an 18-44 year old. They (actually, "We") are not as "brand
> loyal" as we used to be. We shop at warehouse clubs now
> instead of being loyal to department stores. So much for
> "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". The business that
> gives us the best price is where we tend to flock. We aren't
> stupid. We try to make our money go as far as we can. We buy
> sportier cars than the 45-64 year olds of yester-year. Have
> you seen how lucrative the plastic surgery business has
> become in the last decade? We DON'T want to get old as fast
> as our parents did!
>
> Our music will always be sacred to us. It's when stations
> get away from the oldies genre and try to incorporate disco
> and classic rock into the mix....that's when they fail.
> Now, it's taboo to play anything prior to the Beatle era
> because, honestly, it makes the station sound too old!
> Oldies stations (or classic hits, if you prefer), can move
> deeper into the 70's so long as it's done cautiously. They
> can play some disco/dance music BUT it can't be part of the
> regular rotation. It needs to be showcased as a "special"
> feature.
>
> I've had a lot of success with this format over the years.
> It's very sad to see a lot of companies throwing in the
> towel. Oldies can be saved by having a fun presentation,
> great creative imaging and less experimentation with songs
> that should be left alone.
>
> A good sales department that understands the format CAN make
> the money come in. It may not be the heavy-hitting national
> business but certainly the locals.
>
> I really hope I have the opportunity to program another one
> of these great stations. If you're lucky enough to be
> programming one now you really need to take a real good luck
> at what's on the air. Is it the same-old "Good times & great
> oldies" imaging over and over? Or, are you being creative
> and being comtemporary? Do your jox talk about poodle
> skirts and surfboards? If they do, you're dead! Freshen it
> up and save your station while there's still time!
>
> I would be interested in hearing what you guys have to
> say......
>
My father certainly did NOT buy a Jeep at the age of 53--as his son and his wife recently did!

 

[MikeDane]

> For nearly 20 years I have been involved with Oldies as a
> programmer and air personality in markets ranging from Los
> Angeles to San Francisco to Jacksonville to Savannah. In
> every single case, the company I left decided that oldies
> wasn't going to work for them financially. They either
> flipped it within a year after my departure or, most
> recently, they made me and my staff company casualties. It's
> been discussed on this board time and time again that ad
> agencies aren't interested in that older demo anymore. We
> all know that they are staffed by folks that are in their
> 20's and 30's and they certainly couldn't care less about
> buying time on an oldies station. The question becomes, are
> the agencies serving their clients best interest?
>
> Adults over 45 generally have far more spendable income than
> an 18-44 year old. They (actually, "We") are not as "brand
> loyal" as we used to be. We shop at warehouse clubs now
> instead of being loyal to department stores. So much for
> "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". The business that
> gives us the best price is where we tend to flock. We aren't
> stupid. We try to make our money go as far as we can. We buy
> sportier cars than the 45-64 year olds of yester-year. Have
> you seen how lucrative the plastic surgery business has
> become in the last decade? We DON'T want to get old as fast
> as our parents did!
>
> Our music will always be sacred to us. It's when stations
> get away from the oldies genre and try to incorporate disco
> and classic rock into the mix....that's when they fail.
> Now, it's taboo to play anything prior to the Beatle era
> because, honestly, it makes the station sound too old!
> Oldies stations (or classic hits, if you prefer), can move
> deeper into the 70's so long as it's done cautiously. They
> can play some disco/dance music BUT it can't be part of the
> regular rotation. It needs to be showcased as a "special"
> feature.
>
> I've had a lot of success with this format over the years.
> It's very sad to see a lot of companies throwing in the
> towel. Oldies can be saved by having a fun presentation,
> great creative imaging and less experimentation with songs
> that should be left alone.
>
> A good sales department that understands the format CAN make
> the money come in. It may not be the heavy-hitting national
> business but certainly the locals.
>
> I really hope I have the opportunity to program another one
> of these great stations. If you're lucky enough to be
> programming one now you really need to take a real good luck
> at what's on the air. Is it the same-old "Good times & great
> oldies" imaging over and over? Or, are you being creative
> and being comtemporary? Do your jox talk about poodle
> skirts and surfboards? If they do, you're dead! Freshen it
> up and save your station while there's still time!
>
> I would be interested in hearing what you guys have to
> say......
>

Amen Brother! But try telling this to the morons in suits.

Mike Dane
WSTB-FM 88.9
www.SundayOldiesJukebox.com

 

[Oldbones]

> Adults over 45 generally have far more spendable income than
> an 18-44 year old. They (actually, "We") are not as "brand
> loyal" as we used to be. We shop at warehouse clubs now
> instead of being loyal to department stores. So much for
> "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". The business that
> gives us the best price is where we tend to flock. We aren't
> stupid. We try to make our money go as far as we can. We buy
> sportier cars than the 45-64 year olds of yester-year. Have
> you seen how lucrative the plastic surgery business has
> become in the last decade? We DON'T want to get old as fast
> as our parents did!
>
> Our music will always be sacred to us. It's when stations
> get away from the oldies genre and try to incorporate disco
> and classic rock into the mix....that's when they fail.
> Now, it's taboo to play anything prior to the Beatle era
> because, honestly, it makes the station sound too old!
> Oldies stations (or classic hits, if you prefer), can move
> deeper into the 70's so long as it's done cautiously. They
> can play some disco/dance music BUT it can't be part of the
> regular rotation. It needs to be showcased as a "special"
> feature.


I have mixed feelings on this. I'm over 50 & I hate to say it, but a lot of my buying patterns are set. Didn't like foreign cars 30 years ago, don't like 'em now. No clever ad campaign is gonna change that. But advertising isn't just about attracting new customers...it's about keeping old ones, and that's where the ad agencies are missing the boat with us boomers. Look at the amount of money McDonalds or Budweiser spend on advertising...I'd guess they get very few new customers thru ads...whether you like their products or not, everyone's heard of them. And that's what they want to ensure.

As far as music mix goes...I for one do not miss pre-1962 music on oldies radio. It was never relevant to me...since I'm on the older end of the boomer scale, I'd guess it means even less to people born in the late 50s. OK, an occasional song that doesn't sound too dated, but use pre-1962 stuff sparingly. No doo wop, no Buddy Holly "hiccup" clones, etc. 70s music is fine too as long as you play the right tunes. Disco/dance stuff is fine as long as it's not overdone, and you stick to the huge hits that don't sound dated. "Stayin' Alive" is fine, most of the Casablanca catalog (Donna Summer, Village People, etc.) is not. Keep it pop, no classic rock. If I want to hear "Freebird" I know where to tune. Play the single versions ("American Pie" being one of the few exceptions). Stick to the hits...if a song only made it to #24 when it was new, forget it...not many people liked it then, even fewer remember it now.


> I really hope I have the opportunity to program another one
> of these great stations. If you're lucky enough to be
> programming one now you really need to take a real good luck
> at what's on the air. Is it the same-old "Good times & great
> oldies" imaging over and over? Or, are you being creative
> and being comtemporary? Do your jox talk about poodle
> skirts and surfboards? If they do, you're dead! Freshen it
> up and save your station while there's still time!
>

You just hit the nail on the head. You can't sound like 1963 radio. You have to be a 21st century radio station that happens to play 60s & 70s tunes. You've gotta relate to where your audience is today, not where we were when we were teenagers. If you try to appeal to the guys who still wear their hair like Elvis you're gonna lose.

 

[TheFonz]

[If you try to appeal to the guys who still
wear their hair like Elvis you're gonna lose.]



You're gonna lose anyway. Alternative music sources have already captured the '50s, '60s and much of the '70s audiences. The best terrestrial radio can hope to do is plug their finger in the dike and try to save the '80s + audiences.

 

[Oldbones]

> [If you try to appeal to the guys who still
> wear their hair like Elvis you're gonna lose.]
>
>
>
> You're gonna lose anyway. Alternative music sources have
> already captured the '50s, '60s and much of the '70s
> audiences. The best terrestrial radio can hope to do is
> plug their finger in the dike and try to save the '80s +
> audiences.
>

I don't know about that. My guess is that mp3 players and internet streams are far more popular with the under-30 crowd than boomers. Satellite radio is still a bit player...I doubt Stern's audience is into Little Richard.

Terrestrial radio is a long way from dead.

 

[TheFonz]

> > [You're gonna lose anyway. Alternative music sources have
> > already captured the '50s, '60s and much of the '70s
> > audiences. The best terrestrial radio can hope to do is
> > plug their finger in the dike and try to save the '80s +
> > audiences.]
> >
>
> [I don't know about that. My guess is that mp3 players and
> internet streams are far more popular with the under-30
> crowd than boomers. Satellite radio is still a bit
> player...I doubt Stern's audience is into Little Richard.]


I would include recorded music (tapes, CDs, etc) in alternative music sources. Most of us who used to enjoy Oldies radio own much of the music. But we listened to the radio because of the music/personality mix. A bad music/personality mix isn't going to keep us listening.

 

[davideduardo]

> It's
> been discussed on this board time and time again that ad
> agencies aren't interested in that older demo anymore. We
> all know that they are staffed by folks that are in their
> 20's and 30's and they certainly couldn't care less about
> buying time on an oldies station. The question becomes, are
> the agencies serving their clients best interest?

It has been discussed on this board time and time again that ad agencies follow the dmographic target goals of thier clients. Agencies are intermediaries. If a client says, "no 55+" the agency can not buy against that demo. Period.

Also, for the 100th time, time buyers do not make demo determinations. They follow charts and specs given by higher up people and negotiate the best rates from stations that deliver the desired demo. Many times, unless the agency is local, they buyer has no idea what the format is.
>
> Adults over 45 generally have far more spendable income than
> an 18-44 year old. They (actually, "We") are not as "brand
> loyal" as we used to be. We shop at warehouse clubs now
> instead of being loyal to department stores. So much for
> "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". The business that
> gives us the best price is where we tend to flock. We aren't
> stupid. We try to make our money go as far as we can. We buy
> sportier cars than the 45-64 year olds of yester-year. Have
> you seen how lucrative the plastic surgery business has
> become in the last decade? We DON'T want to get old as fast
> as our parents did!

So? If the advertiser does not want 55+, the agency will not buy it.
>
> Our music will always be sacred to us. It's when stations
> get away from the oldies genre and try to incorporate disco
> and classic rock into the mix....that's when they fail.
> Now, it's taboo to play anything prior to the Beatle era
> because, honestly, it makes the station sound too old!
> Oldies stations (or classic hits, if you prefer), can move
> deeper into the 70's so long as it's done cautiously. They
> can play some disco/dance music BUT it can't be part of the
> regular rotation. It needs to be showcased as a "special"
> feature.

Stations that depend on agency business have to go after under 55 demos. Either they drop the 60's oldies entirely or they try to modify and move into the 70's. There are plenty of 45-55 year olds who would rather hear Patrick Hernandez than Chubby Checker.
>
> I've had a lot of success with this format over the years.

But it is dead now, in all but non-transactional small markets and suburban wannabee stations.

> It's very sad to see a lot of companies throwing in the
> towel. Oldies can be saved by having a fun presentation,
> great creative imaging and less experimentation with songs
> that should be left alone.

Oldies can be saved only by redefining it to music of the 70's and 80's.
>
> A good sales department that understands the format CAN make
> the money come in. It may not be the heavy-hitting national
> business but certainly the locals.

And only local. Great if you are in a small market... but not viable in big markets where most of the quality business comes from agencies.
>
> I really hope I have the opportunity to program another one
> of these great stations. If you're lucky enough to be
> programming one now you really need to take a real good luck
> at what's on the air. Is it the same-old "Good times & great
> oldies" imaging over and over? Or, are you being creative
> and being comtemporary? Do your jox talk about poodle
> skirts and surfboards? If they do, you're dead! Freshen it
> up and save your station while there's still time!

Or, just get rid of all but a handful of 60's songs and do something better than Jack. This wheel can not be reinvented for the original audience, who are now genuine old farts and old fartesses.

 

[davideduardo]

> >
>
> Amen Brother! But try telling this to the morons in suits.
>

This "moron in a suit" knows that I will not be able to buy suits if I play 60's crap. It is dead, it is over, and oldies needs to be redefined... either like Jack or in some new presentation.

The "morons in suits" also know where the money comes from and how it is palced on radio buys. Get real, please.

 

[TheFonz]

> [It has been discussed on this board time and time again that
> ad agencies follow the demographic target goals of thier
> clients.]


Sometimes it's best to explain these things in basic street language. Radio is the Pimp. The advertiser is the John. And the listener is the Ho. Isn't that about it?

 

[pqgeorge]

David, with all due respect..... I have to disagree with you. Why do you INSIST that the 45 to 55 year old oldies listener wants to hear nothing more than late 70's and 1980's so-called "oldies" music? I happen to be 46 and I would rather listen to a selection of oldies from 1954 through 1979, rather than listening to the 80's stuff. The JACK format a-la WCBS-FM (with Howard Cogan liners) is an insult to the average listener. Insulting your listeners get a little old, pretty fast. Sure, I liked the rock music of the late 1970's. Hell, I played that stuff back in the late 1970's and early 80's while programming several college FM's. Do I like that same music today? Sure. But I also really enjoy the original music of rock and roll's FIRST quarter century. If I had a choice between 70's/80's oldies or 50's, 60's and 70's oldies.... the 50's through 70's would win, hands down. I frankly don't give a rats a** of what Madison Avenue has to say. With the way radio is deteriorating today, the "suits" will basically (in time), take radio as we know it, out of business. It's already beginning to happen with satellite radio (Sirius/XM), MP3's and IPods, et.al... If the "suits" do not start listening to their listeners, and I mean ALL of their potential listeners, they eventually will be dictating their programming to nobody. There is a LOT of money out there with the "baby boomers". Ignoring them with their substantial incomes seems a little ....."stupid". Radio is in the midst of an identity crisis right now. And if this continues, there will be few and fewer ears to listen. <P ID="signature">______________
Peter Q. George (K1XRB)
Whitman, Massachusetts</P>

 

[Oldiesaholic]

> > > [You're gonna lose anyway. Alternative music sources
> have
> > > already captured the '50s, '60s and much of the '70s
> > > audiences. The best terrestrial radio can hope to do is
>
> > > plug their finger in the dike and try to save the '80s +
>
> > > audiences.]
> > >
> >
> > [I don't know about that. My guess is that mp3 players
> and
> > internet streams are far more popular with the under-30
> > crowd than boomers. Satellite radio is still a bit
> > player...I doubt Stern's audience is into Little Richard.]
>
>
>
> I would include recorded music (tapes, CDs, etc) in
> alternative music sources. Most of us who used to enjoy
> Oldies radio own much of the music. But we listened to the
> radio because of the music/personality mix. A bad
> music/personality mix isn't going to keep us listening.
>
A good point. Although I felt the oldies station in our area was repetitious,
the presentation was good. It had perky jingles, contests, promos, and great lunchtime/nighttime/weekend request shows, and upbeat personalities. Even though I was tired of hearing some of the music over and over, I listened anyway because of the way it was presented.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Oldies - Bury Them

> David, with all due respect..... I have to disagree with
> you. Why do you INSIST that the 45 to 55 year old oldies
> listener wants to hear nothing more than late 70's and
> 1980's so-called "oldies" music?

I do not insist. All I know is that that demos does not seem to want 60's oldies with much of a passion. The group does not just want oldies.

I looked at a market that has a very well-performing oldies stations, Miami. WMJX gets less thana 7 share and is about 5th on the average in that demo. In other words, the 45-54 persons in a 94% sweep, are not listening to oldies. at any given time.

So, rougly 13 our of ever 14 listeners is listening to something else. 45-54 is not listening to 60's oldies. A hell of a lot of 55+ don't like it either. It is not anywhere near a dominant format in the demo.

> I happen to be 46 and I
> would rather listen to a selection of oldies from 1954
> through 1979, rather than listening to the 80's stuff.

But most people don't. That is my point. As as oldies listeners age, less and less of them are in demos that have no advertiser appeal except in smaller markets where direct sales predominate and ratings are not a factor.

> would win, hands down. I frankly don't give a rats a** of
> what Madison Avenue has to say.

Again: ad agencies do n't determine demos. Advertisers have sales targets, often part if their product design. They instruct the advertising agency to conduct a campaigh against the people they designed and intend the product for.

> With the way radio is
> deteriorating today, the "suits" will basically (in time),
> take radio as we know it, out of business. It's already
> beginning to happen with satellite radio (Sirius/XM)

0.3% of listening. Big deal. They have to have 25 million receivers to get a 1 share. Only 99 to go.

>, MP3's
> and IPods, et.al...

We had cassettes, CDs, Walkmans, i tracks, etc. The killer app for entertainment is one you did not even mention, but radio will be a part of it.

> If the "suits" do not start listening
> to their listeners, and I mean ALL of their potential
> listeners, they eventually will be dictating their
> programming to nobody.

Radio spends tens of millions a year in researching listener taste. Most people actually like radio and use it... around 94% of all Americans, in fact.

> There is a LOT of money out there
> with the "baby boomers".

But no advertisers are out telling thier agencies to buy 55+ When they do, we will do programming for that demo. Otherwise, forget it.

> Ignoring them with their
> substantial incomes seems a little ....."stupid". Radio is
> in the midst of an identity crisis right now. And if this
> continues, there will be few and fewer ears to listen.

Whatever.
>

 

[Oldiesaholic]

> > >
> >
> > Amen Brother! But try telling this to the morons in suits.
>
> >
>
> This "moron in a suit" knows that I will not be able to buy
> suits if I play 60's crap. It is dead, it is over, and
> oldies needs to be redefined... either like Jack or in some
> new presentation.
>
> The "morons in suits" also know where the money comes from
> and how it is palced on radio buys. Get real, please.
>
To me, "redefining" it is the same as killing it.

 

[allisonmarie]

> > It's
> > been discussed on this board time and time again that ad
> > agencies aren't interested in that older demo anymore. We
> > all know that they are staffed by folks that are in their
> > 20's and 30's and they certainly couldn't care less about
> > buying time on an oldies station. The question becomes,
> are
> > the agencies serving their clients best interest?
>
> It has been discussed on this board time and time again that
> ad agencies follow the dmographic target goals of thier
> clients. Agencies are intermediaries. If a client says, "no
> 55+" the agency can not buy against that demo. Period.
>
> Also, for the 100th time, time buyers do not make demo
> determinations. They follow charts and specs given by higher
> up people and negotiate the best rates from stations that
> deliver the desired demo. Many times, unless the agency is
> local, they buyer has no idea what the format is.
> >
> > Adults over 45 generally have far more spendable income
> than
> > an 18-44 year old. They (actually, "We") are not as "brand
>
> > loyal" as we used to be. We shop at warehouse clubs now
> > instead of being loyal to department stores. So much for
> > "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". The business
> that
> > gives us the best price is where we tend to flock. We
> aren't
> > stupid. We try to make our money go as far as we can. We
> buy
> > sportier cars than the 45-64 year olds of yester-year.
> Have
> > you seen how lucrative the plastic surgery business has
> > become in the last decade? We DON'T want to get old as
> fast
> > as our parents did!
>
> So? If the advertiser does not want 55+, the agency will not
> buy it.
> >
> > Our music will always be sacred to us. It's when stations
> > get away from the oldies genre and try to incorporate
> disco
> > and classic rock into the mix....that's when they fail.
> > Now, it's taboo to play anything prior to the Beatle era
> > because, honestly, it makes the station sound too old!
> > Oldies stations (or classic hits, if you prefer), can move
>
> > deeper into the 70's so long as it's done cautiously. They
>
> > can play some disco/dance music BUT it can't be part of
> the
> > regular rotation. It needs to be showcased as a "special"
>
> > feature.
>
> Stations that depend on agency business have to go after
> under 55 demos. Either they drop the 60's oldies entirely or
> they try to modify and move into the 70's. There are plenty
> of 45-55 year olds who would rather hear Patrick Hernandez
> than Chubby Checker.
> >
> > I've had a lot of success with this format over the years.
>
>
> But it is dead now, in all but non-transactional small
> markets and suburban wannabee stations.
>
> > It's very sad to see a lot of companies throwing in the
> > towel. Oldies can be saved by having a fun presentation,
> > great creative imaging and less experimentation with songs
>
> > that should be left alone.
>
> Oldies can be saved only by redefining it to music of the
> 70's and 80's.
> >
> > A good sales department that understands the format CAN
> make
> > the money come in. It may not be the heavy-hitting
> national
> > business but certainly the locals.
>
> And only local. Great if you are in a small market... but
> not viable in big markets where most of the quality business
> comes from agencies.
> >
> > I really hope I have the opportunity to program another
> one
> > of these great stations. If you're lucky enough to be
> > programming one now you really need to take a real good
> luck
> > at what's on the air. Is it the same-old "Good times &
> great
> > oldies" imaging over and over? Or, are you being creative
> > and being comtemporary? Do your jox talk about poodle
> > skirts and surfboards? If they do, you're dead! Freshen
> it
> > up and save your station while there's still time!
>
> Or, just get rid of all but a handful of 60's songs and do
> something better than Jack. This wheel can not be reinvented
> for the original audience, who are now genuine old farts and
> old fartesses.
>
Your getting to be just a bit personal there David! And just a bit insulting too! Grow up already! It's not what this board is for either!

 

[smashedcd]

XM no static at all.....50s on 5/ 60s on 6..for all you oldies fans that are living oldies



> For nearly 20 years I have been involved with Oldies as a
> programmer and air personality in markets ranging from Los
> Angeles to San Francisco to Jacksonville to Savannah. In
> every single case, the company I left decided that oldies
> wasn't going to work for them financially. They either
> flipped it within a year after my departure or, most
> recently, they made me and my staff company casualties. It's
> been discussed on this board time and time again that ad
> agencies aren't interested in that older demo anymore. We
> all know that they are staffed by folks that are in their
> 20's and 30's and they certainly couldn't care less about
> buying time on an oldies station. The question becomes, are
> the agencies serving their clients best interest?
>
> Adults over 45 generally have far more spendable income than
> an 18-44 year old. They (actually, "We") are not as "brand
> loyal" as we used to be. We shop at warehouse clubs now
> instead of being loyal to department stores. So much for
> "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". The business that
> gives us the best price is where we tend to flock. We aren't
> stupid. We try to make our money go as far as we can. We buy
> sportier cars than the 45-64 year olds of yester-year. Have
> you seen how lucrative the plastic surgery business has
> become in the last decade? We DON'T want to get old as fast
> as our parents did!
>
> Our music will always be sacred to us. It's when stations
> get away from the oldies genre and try to incorporate disco
> and classic rock into the mix....that's when they fail.
> Now, it's taboo to play anything prior to the Beatle era
> because, honestly, it makes the station sound too old!
> Oldies stations (or classic hits, if you prefer), can move
> deeper into the 70's so long as it's done cautiously. They
> can play some disco/dance music BUT it can't be part of the
> regular rotation. It needs to be showcased as a "special"
> feature.
>
> I've had a lot of success with this format over the years.
> It's very sad to see a lot of companies throwing in the
> towel. Oldies can be saved by having a fun presentation,
> great creative imaging and less experimentation with songs
> that should be left alone.
>
> A good sales department that understands the format CAN make
> the money come in. It may not be the heavy-hitting national
> business but certainly the locals.
>
> I really hope I have the opportunity to program another one
> of these great stations. If you're lucky enough to be
> programming one now you really need to take a real good luck
> at what's on the air. Is it the same-old "Good times & great
> oldies" imaging over and over? Or, are you being creative
> and being comtemporary? Do your jox talk about poodle
> skirts and surfboards? If they do, you're dead! Freshen it
> up and save your station while there's still time!
>
> I would be interested in hearing what you guys have to
> say......
>
<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>

 

[davideduardo]

> >
> > Or, just get rid of all but a handful of 60's songs and do
>
> > something better than Jack. This wheel can not be
> reinvented
> > for the original audience, who are now genuine old farts
> and
> > old fartesses.
> >
> Your getting to be just a bit personal there David! And just
> a bit insulting too! Grow up already! It's not what this
> board is for either!

You and many of the posters fail to recognize that this is the attitude that advertisers have. Right now, there is nothing worse than being caught up in the Oldsmobile syndrome... having a product that gets stereotyped as being for old people only. Protecting a product from getting an old image is very important.

The 55+ issue is creating worse havoc in newspapers, and we are seing that even a medium that is perceived as old is being shunned.

If radio is to survive into the future, it is very important that its revenue source, which in the larger markets is significantly agency'based, be protected. If radio stubbornly wants to protect formats that image it poorly and which tarnish its image, the change to alterative media will come even faster.
>

 

[davideduardo]

> > > >
> > >
> > > Amen Brother! But try telling this to the morons in
> suits.
> >
> > >
> >
> > This "moron in a suit" knows that I will not be able to
> buy
> > suits if I play 60's crap. It is dead, it is over, and
> > oldies needs to be redefined... either like Jack or in
> some
> > new presentation.
> >
> > The "morons in suits" also know where the money comes from
>
> > and how it is palced on radio buys. Get real, please.
> >
> To me, "redefining" it is the same as killing it.

Then let´s get on with killing 60´s oldies so people can start working on something a bit more fun and c reative than Jack. The ¨new¨ oldies format is out there waiting.

The format has no long-term usefulness to commercial terrestrial radio, as it has no source of revenue.

 

[CTRadio]

> My father certainly did NOT buy a Jeep at the age of 53--as
> his son and his wife recently did!

That buying decision was probably made from a lifetime of being marketed to rather than hearing a couple of radio spots. The median age of the oldies station I worked at in the late 90s was 48, and you can bet the audience hasn't gotten any younger since then. Oldies still has some 45-54 listeners, but so do AC, news/talk, classic rock, classic hits and other formats. That slice of the 45-54 pie is shrinking as 55+ now dominates the oldies audience.

If you remember being in the "Pepsi Generation", you may notice that Pepsi has since moved on to targeting your kids in commercials. The baby boomer oldies stations have moved off the major signals faster than many would have predicted, but the advertisers have had their say. I will miss it, just as the WWII generation missed beautiful music and standards when radio evolved in the 80s. What you and I think sounds good or believe we can get away with based on our gut instincts just doesn't cut it in the long run.

Here in the Northeast, I wish the abrupt disappearance of market icons in Providence at B-101 and in New York at CBS-FM could have been handled less drastically. They connected with their listeners and the music for years. For that reason, it would pretty cold to tell posters here or oldies fans to "get over it." So I won't...

 

[motherscratcher]

Re: Oldies - Bury Them

> All I know is that that demos does not seem
> to want 60's oldies with much of a passion. The group does
> not just want oldies.
>
> I looked at a market that has a very well-performing oldies
> stations, Miami. WMJX gets less thana 7 share and is about
> 5th on the average in that demo. In other words, the 45-54
> persons in a 94% sweep, are not listening to oldies. at any
> given time.
>
> So, rougly 13 our of ever 14 listeners is listening to
> something else. 45-54 is not listening to 60's oldies. A
> hell of a lot of 55+ don't like it either. It is not
> anywhere near a dominant format in the demo.


First, Miami is 40% Hispanic, mostly Cuban, which don't relate to the format at all. Second, Miami is about 20% black. In all of my years as an oldies programmer I have never gotten more than 2 or 3% of the black audience, although I have consistantly maintained top shares 25-54, 35-64, and yes, I've even had the number one station 12+ in very recent years. My point is that with the minority population being as high as it is, WMJX does very well, but would do much better if you only look at the anglo numbers.

Passion? Oldies listeners have a tremendous amount of passion for this music! Get real!

Every format has markets where it can succeed and markets where it can fail miserably. The latest example: Jack. A major failure in New York, a monster in Los Angeles (the best numbers KCBS has had in many years. I should know, I worked there when it was CHR as well as oldies).

Oldies CAN continue to do very well in markets where it hasn't been bastardized and butchered by bad programming and sales departments that don't have a clue about how to sell it. I've always worked with sales to package the station to make it an easier sell, and it does work. It takes effort and creativity.

How many programmers and jocks reading this right now have ever had the feeling that you and your station have been treated like "the read-headed stepchild"? Yes, it can be a struggle to maintain your integrity but you can't let 'em beat you down!