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Re: Oldies - Bury Them
>
> First, Miami is 40% Hispanic, mostly Cuban, which don't
> relate to the format at all.
WMXJ has over 30% Hispanic AQH listening. It is one of the best performers among Hispanics in the US. Many Hispanics in the right demo relate to the format because the songs were big hits all over Latin America in the 60's, and if a listener was part of that taste group, they may still like the music.
> Second, Miami is about 20%
> black.
Most US metros are significantly ethnic today. And my point in using WMXJ as an example is that it overperforms most Oldies stations nationally. If you look around the country, you can not ignore an ethnic population that is now nearly 30% of the total population.
> In all of my years as an oldies programmer I have
> never gotten more than 2 or 3% of the black audience,
> although I have consistantly maintained top shares 25-54,
> 35-64, and yes, I've even had the number one station 12+ in
> very recent years. My point is that with the minority
> population being as high as it is, WMJX does very well, but
> would do much better if you only look at the anglo numbers.
But that would not be natural. Look at KOOL in Phoenix. It has under a 9 share of 45-54, in a market that is less than 1% Black and far less Hispanic (although KOOL does identically among Hispanics as with non-Hispanics) meaning that 91% of 45-54 are not listening to oldies. My point, again, is that oldies is not a majority format.
>
> Passion? Oldies listeners have a tremendous amount of
> passion for this music! Get real!
Not if the format only gets 6 to 9% of all 45-54 listeners at best. That is not passion for the format. That is passion among a small subset of a demo.
>
> Every format has markets where it can succeed and markets
> where it can fail miserably. The latest example: Jack. A
> major failure in New York, a monster in Los Angeles (the
> best numbers KCBS has had in many years. I should know, I
> worked there when it was CHR as well as oldies).
JAck will probably not be allowed to fail in NY, but it may take more time. The fact was, WCBS-FM was failing, unless you thing a performance on revenue that was off 40% in 6 years indexed againsts itself and the market is successful.
>
> Oldies CAN continue to do very well in markets where it
> hasn't been bastardized and butchered by bad programming and
> sales departments that don't have a clue about how to sell
> it. I've always worked with sales to package the station to
> make it an easier sell, and it does work. It takes effort
> and creativity.
In any market wehre business is significantly transactional, there is no way to make this format work in the future. Each year cuts away at the viable sales demos, and each year custs away at the songs this group wants to keep hearing.
>
> How many programmers and jocks reading this right now have
> ever had the feeling that you and your station have been
> treated like "the read-headed stepchild"? Yes, it can be a
> struggle to maintain your integrity but you can't let 'em
> beat you down!
And you can´t sell it, either. Which is why the first steps in osme markets are to either reduce costs or to try to change the demos by moving to newer oldies. Generally, the best step is a new format.
>
>
> First, Miami is 40% Hispanic, mostly Cuban, which don't
> relate to the format at all.
WMXJ has over 30% Hispanic AQH listening. It is one of the best performers among Hispanics in the US. Many Hispanics in the right demo relate to the format because the songs were big hits all over Latin America in the 60's, and if a listener was part of that taste group, they may still like the music.
> Second, Miami is about 20%
> black.
Most US metros are significantly ethnic today. And my point in using WMXJ as an example is that it overperforms most Oldies stations nationally. If you look around the country, you can not ignore an ethnic population that is now nearly 30% of the total population.
> In all of my years as an oldies programmer I have
> never gotten more than 2 or 3% of the black audience,
> although I have consistantly maintained top shares 25-54,
> 35-64, and yes, I've even had the number one station 12+ in
> very recent years. My point is that with the minority
> population being as high as it is, WMJX does very well, but
> would do much better if you only look at the anglo numbers.
But that would not be natural. Look at KOOL in Phoenix. It has under a 9 share of 45-54, in a market that is less than 1% Black and far less Hispanic (although KOOL does identically among Hispanics as with non-Hispanics) meaning that 91% of 45-54 are not listening to oldies. My point, again, is that oldies is not a majority format.
>
> Passion? Oldies listeners have a tremendous amount of
> passion for this music! Get real!
Not if the format only gets 6 to 9% of all 45-54 listeners at best. That is not passion for the format. That is passion among a small subset of a demo.
>
> Every format has markets where it can succeed and markets
> where it can fail miserably. The latest example: Jack. A
> major failure in New York, a monster in Los Angeles (the
> best numbers KCBS has had in many years. I should know, I
> worked there when it was CHR as well as oldies).
JAck will probably not be allowed to fail in NY, but it may take more time. The fact was, WCBS-FM was failing, unless you thing a performance on revenue that was off 40% in 6 years indexed againsts itself and the market is successful.
>
> Oldies CAN continue to do very well in markets where it
> hasn't been bastardized and butchered by bad programming and
> sales departments that don't have a clue about how to sell
> it. I've always worked with sales to package the station to
> make it an easier sell, and it does work. It takes effort
> and creativity.
In any market wehre business is significantly transactional, there is no way to make this format work in the future. Each year cuts away at the viable sales demos, and each year custs away at the songs this group wants to keep hearing.
>
> How many programmers and jocks reading this right now have
> ever had the feeling that you and your station have been
> treated like "the read-headed stepchild"? Yes, it can be a
> struggle to maintain your integrity but you can't let 'em
> beat you down!
And you can´t sell it, either. Which is why the first steps in osme markets are to either reduce costs or to try to change the demos by moving to newer oldies. Generally, the best step is a new format.
>
A
AnotherBigFan
Guest
Re: Oldies - Bury Them
> First, Miami is 40% Hispanic, mostly Cuban...
> Second, Miami is about 20% black....
I think it's invalid to mention the two minority ethnic groups in the same context while making the point you're making without better elaboration in your reasoning. The reason one group may not listen to oldies is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the reason the other group may not listen to oldies.
African Americans and Hispanics are coming from an entirely different place when it comes to listening choices, in general.
> First, Miami is 40% Hispanic, mostly Cuban...
> Second, Miami is about 20% black....
I think it's invalid to mention the two minority ethnic groups in the same context while making the point you're making without better elaboration in your reasoning. The reason one group may not listen to oldies is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the reason the other group may not listen to oldies.
African Americans and Hispanics are coming from an entirely different place when it comes to listening choices, in general.
> > My father certainly did NOT buy a Jeep at the age of
> 53--as
> > his son and his wife recently did!
>
> That buying decision was probably made from a lifetime of
> being marketed to rather than hearing a couple of radio
> spots. The median age of the oldies station I worked at in
> the late 90s was 48, and you can bet the audience hasn't
> gotten any younger since then. Oldies still has some 45-54
> listeners, but so do AC, news/talk, classic rock, classic
> hits and other formats. That slice of the 45-54 pie is
> shrinking as 55+ now dominates the oldies audience.
>
> If you remember being in the "Pepsi Generation", you may
> notice that Pepsi has since moved on to targeting your kids
> in commercials. The baby boomer oldies stations have moved
> off the major signals faster than many would have predicted,
> but the advertisers have had their say. I will miss it,
> just as the WWII generation missed beautiful music and
> standards when radio evolved in the 80s. What you and I
> think sounds good or believe we can get away with based on
> our gut instincts just doesn't cut it in the long run.
>
> Here in the Northeast, I wish the abrupt disappearance of
> market icons in Providence at B-101 and in New York at
> CBS-FM could have been handled less drastically. They
> connected with their listeners and the music for years. For
> that reason, it would pretty cold to tell posters here or
> oldies fans to "get over it." So I won't...
>
No, it is our circumstances have changed. Earlier on, I wanted my sports cars--and I bought them. Now, circumstances have changed, and I want something that I can count on to get me to work and from work--90 miles round trip through a lake effect snow belt, so that is why I bought my current vehicle.
I have never previously owned a Jeep. Actually, several years ago, we looked and decided at that time, we didn't really like them. However, things tend to change in a person's life and we ended up buying not one, but two.
> 53--as
> > his son and his wife recently did!
>
> That buying decision was probably made from a lifetime of
> being marketed to rather than hearing a couple of radio
> spots. The median age of the oldies station I worked at in
> the late 90s was 48, and you can bet the audience hasn't
> gotten any younger since then. Oldies still has some 45-54
> listeners, but so do AC, news/talk, classic rock, classic
> hits and other formats. That slice of the 45-54 pie is
> shrinking as 55+ now dominates the oldies audience.
>
> If you remember being in the "Pepsi Generation", you may
> notice that Pepsi has since moved on to targeting your kids
> in commercials. The baby boomer oldies stations have moved
> off the major signals faster than many would have predicted,
> but the advertisers have had their say. I will miss it,
> just as the WWII generation missed beautiful music and
> standards when radio evolved in the 80s. What you and I
> think sounds good or believe we can get away with based on
> our gut instincts just doesn't cut it in the long run.
>
> Here in the Northeast, I wish the abrupt disappearance of
> market icons in Providence at B-101 and in New York at
> CBS-FM could have been handled less drastically. They
> connected with their listeners and the music for years. For
> that reason, it would pretty cold to tell posters here or
> oldies fans to "get over it." So I won't...
>
No, it is our circumstances have changed. Earlier on, I wanted my sports cars--and I bought them. Now, circumstances have changed, and I want something that I can count on to get me to work and from work--90 miles round trip through a lake effect snow belt, so that is why I bought my current vehicle.
I have never previously owned a Jeep. Actually, several years ago, we looked and decided at that time, we didn't really like them. However, things tend to change in a person's life and we ended up buying not one, but two.
> I happen to be 46 and I
> would rather listen to a selection of oldies from 1954
> through 1979, rather than listening to the 80's stuff. The
> JACK format a-la WCBS-FM (with Howard Cogan liners) is an
> insult to the average listener. Insulting your listeners
> get a little old, pretty fast.
(some snippage)
> If I had a choice between 70's/80's oldies
> or 50's, 60's and 70's oldies.... the 50's through 70's
> would win, hands down. I frankly don't give a rats a** of
> what Madison Avenue has to say.
But you seem to be confusing your personal taste with the tastes and habits of the public at large. I'm about 10 yr. older than you and if I never hear another 50s song it'll be OK with me. If there was a legitimate demand for oldies radio the way it was done 20 years ago, someone would be doing it. Do you have audience figures for the 60s & 60s channels on Sirius and/or XM?
Agreed about "Jack", but it's not worth getting all worked up about...it's a fad format and will be gone (or drastically changed) within a year or 2. Smartass liners and musical trainwrecks get old fast. If it survives, it'll do so by morphing into an oldies format for the younger end of the boomer generation & older Gen X'ers.
> With the way radio is
> deteriorating today, the "suits" will basically (in time),
> take radio as we know it, out of business. It's already
> beginning to happen with satellite radio (Sirius/XM), MP3's
> and IPods, et.al... If the "suits" do not start listening
> to their listeners, and I mean ALL of their potential
> listeners, they eventually will be dictating their
> programming to nobody. There is a LOT of money out there
> with the "baby boomers". Ignoring them with their
> substantial incomes seems a little ....."stupid". Radio is
> in the midst of an identity crisis right now. And if this
> continues, there will be few and fewer ears to listen.
>
Well, when logical arguments fail, blame it on "the suits". Satellite radio is just another choice among many that didn't exist 20 years ago. Lots of people are not gonna pony up $13/mo for it as long as there's something available for free.
Face it, we boomers are now middle aged, and on the cusp of becoming "old people". We never thought it would happen, we fought it every step of the way, but surprise, we got old.
> would rather listen to a selection of oldies from 1954
> through 1979, rather than listening to the 80's stuff. The
> JACK format a-la WCBS-FM (with Howard Cogan liners) is an
> insult to the average listener. Insulting your listeners
> get a little old, pretty fast.
(some snippage)
> If I had a choice between 70's/80's oldies
> or 50's, 60's and 70's oldies.... the 50's through 70's
> would win, hands down. I frankly don't give a rats a** of
> what Madison Avenue has to say.
But you seem to be confusing your personal taste with the tastes and habits of the public at large. I'm about 10 yr. older than you and if I never hear another 50s song it'll be OK with me. If there was a legitimate demand for oldies radio the way it was done 20 years ago, someone would be doing it. Do you have audience figures for the 60s & 60s channels on Sirius and/or XM?
Agreed about "Jack", but it's not worth getting all worked up about...it's a fad format and will be gone (or drastically changed) within a year or 2. Smartass liners and musical trainwrecks get old fast. If it survives, it'll do so by morphing into an oldies format for the younger end of the boomer generation & older Gen X'ers.
> With the way radio is
> deteriorating today, the "suits" will basically (in time),
> take radio as we know it, out of business. It's already
> beginning to happen with satellite radio (Sirius/XM), MP3's
> and IPods, et.al... If the "suits" do not start listening
> to their listeners, and I mean ALL of their potential
> listeners, they eventually will be dictating their
> programming to nobody. There is a LOT of money out there
> with the "baby boomers". Ignoring them with their
> substantial incomes seems a little ....."stupid". Radio is
> in the midst of an identity crisis right now. And if this
> continues, there will be few and fewer ears to listen.
>
Well, when logical arguments fail, blame it on "the suits". Satellite radio is just another choice among many that didn't exist 20 years ago. Lots of people are not gonna pony up $13/mo for it as long as there's something available for free.
Face it, we boomers are now middle aged, and on the cusp of becoming "old people". We never thought it would happen, we fought it every step of the way, but surprise, we got old.
>
> Well, when logical arguments fail, blame it on "the suits".
> Satellite radio is just another choice among many that
> didn't exist 20 years ago. Lots of people are not gonna
> pony up $13/mo for it as long as there's something available
> for free.
Lets see... with 8 million subscribers at the start of the quarter, XM lost $40 million a month in Q3, and Sirius lost $60 million a month. And they get about a 0.3 share across the country. This is like butterfly watching during an earthquake... irrelevant to the big challenge, which is the kind of thing Motorola introduced this week at the CES.
> Well, when logical arguments fail, blame it on "the suits".
> Satellite radio is just another choice among many that
> didn't exist 20 years ago. Lots of people are not gonna
> pony up $13/mo for it as long as there's something available
> for free.
Lets see... with 8 million subscribers at the start of the quarter, XM lost $40 million a month in Q3, and Sirius lost $60 million a month. And they get about a 0.3 share across the country. This is like butterfly watching during an earthquake... irrelevant to the big challenge, which is the kind of thing Motorola introduced this week at the CES.
A
apco25
Guest
When is thread dead yet?
For nearly 20 years I have been involved with Oldies as a
> programmer and air personality in markets ranging from Los
> Angeles to San Francisco to Jacksonville to Savannah. In
> every single case, the company I left decided that oldies
> wasn't going to work for them financially. They either
> flipped it within a year after my departure or, most
> recently, they made me and my staff company casualties. It's
> been discussed on this board time and time again that ad
> agencies aren't interested in that older demo anymore. We
> all know that they are staffed by folks that are in their
> 20's and 30's and they certainly couldn't care less about
> buying time on an oldies station. The question becomes, are
> the agencies serving their clients best interest?
>
> Adults over 45 generally have far more spendable income than
> an 18-44 year old. They (actually, "We") are not as "brand
> loyal" as we used to be. We shop at warehouse clubs now
> instead of being loyal to department stores. So much for
> "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". The business that
> gives us the best price is where we tend to flock. We aren't
> stupid. We try to make our money go as far as we can. We buy
> sportier cars than the 45-64 year olds of yester-year. Have
> you seen how lucrative the plastic surgery business has
> become in the last decade? We DON'T want to get old as fast
> as our parents did!
>
> Our music will always be sacred to us. It's when stations
> get away from the oldies genre and try to incorporate disco
> and classic rock into the mix....that's when they fail.
> Now, it's taboo to play anything prior to the Beatle era
> because, honestly, it makes the station sound too old!
> Oldies stations (or classic hits, if you prefer), can move
> deeper into the 70's so long as it's done cautiously. They
> can play some disco/dance music BUT it can't be part of the
> regular rotation. It needs to be showcased as a "special"
> feature.
>
> I've had a lot of success with this format over the years.
> It's very sad to see a lot of companies throwing in the
> towel. Oldies can be saved by having a fun presentation,
> great creative imaging and less experimentation with songs
> that should be left alone.
>
> A good sales department that understands the format CAN make
> the money come in. It may not be the heavy-hitting national
> business but certainly the locals.
>
> I really hope I have the opportunity to program another one
> of these great stations. If you're lucky enough to be
> programming one now you really need to take a real good luck
> at what's on the air. Is it the same-old "Good times & great
> oldies" imaging over and over? Or, are you being creative
> and being comtemporary? Do your jox talk about poodle
> skirts and surfboards? If they do, you're dead! Freshen it
> up and save your station while there's still time!
>
> I would be interested in hearing what you guys have to
> say......
>
For nearly 20 years I have been involved with Oldies as a
> programmer and air personality in markets ranging from Los
> Angeles to San Francisco to Jacksonville to Savannah. In
> every single case, the company I left decided that oldies
> wasn't going to work for them financially. They either
> flipped it within a year after my departure or, most
> recently, they made me and my staff company casualties. It's
> been discussed on this board time and time again that ad
> agencies aren't interested in that older demo anymore. We
> all know that they are staffed by folks that are in their
> 20's and 30's and they certainly couldn't care less about
> buying time on an oldies station. The question becomes, are
> the agencies serving their clients best interest?
>
> Adults over 45 generally have far more spendable income than
> an 18-44 year old. They (actually, "We") are not as "brand
> loyal" as we used to be. We shop at warehouse clubs now
> instead of being loyal to department stores. So much for
> "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". The business that
> gives us the best price is where we tend to flock. We aren't
> stupid. We try to make our money go as far as we can. We buy
> sportier cars than the 45-64 year olds of yester-year. Have
> you seen how lucrative the plastic surgery business has
> become in the last decade? We DON'T want to get old as fast
> as our parents did!
>
> Our music will always be sacred to us. It's when stations
> get away from the oldies genre and try to incorporate disco
> and classic rock into the mix....that's when they fail.
> Now, it's taboo to play anything prior to the Beatle era
> because, honestly, it makes the station sound too old!
> Oldies stations (or classic hits, if you prefer), can move
> deeper into the 70's so long as it's done cautiously. They
> can play some disco/dance music BUT it can't be part of the
> regular rotation. It needs to be showcased as a "special"
> feature.
>
> I've had a lot of success with this format over the years.
> It's very sad to see a lot of companies throwing in the
> towel. Oldies can be saved by having a fun presentation,
> great creative imaging and less experimentation with songs
> that should be left alone.
>
> A good sales department that understands the format CAN make
> the money come in. It may not be the heavy-hitting national
> business but certainly the locals.
>
> I really hope I have the opportunity to program another one
> of these great stations. If you're lucky enough to be
> programming one now you really need to take a real good luck
> at what's on the air. Is it the same-old "Good times & great
> oldies" imaging over and over? Or, are you being creative
> and being comtemporary? Do your jox talk about poodle
> skirts and surfboards? If they do, you're dead! Freshen it
> up and save your station while there's still time!
>
> I would be interested in hearing what you guys have to
> say......
>
M
motherscratcher
Guest
> When is thread dead yet?
>
> For nearly 20 years I have been involved with Oldies as a
> > programmer and air personality in markets ranging from Los
>
> > Angeles to San Francisco to Jacksonville to Savannah. In
> > every single case, the company I left decided that oldies
> > wasn't going to work for them financially. They either
> > flipped it within a year after my departure or, most
> > recently, they made me and my staff company casualties.
> It's
> > been discussed on this board time and time again that ad
> > agencies aren't interested in that older demo anymore. We
> > all know that they are staffed by folks that are in their
> > 20's and 30's and they certainly couldn't care less about
> > buying time on an oldies station. The question becomes,
> are
> > the agencies serving their clients best interest?
> >
> > Adults over 45 generally have far more spendable income
> than
> > an 18-44 year old. They (actually, "We") are not as "brand
>
> > loyal" as we used to be. We shop at warehouse clubs now
> > instead of being loyal to department stores. So much for
> > "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". The business
> that
> > gives us the best price is where we tend to flock. We
> aren't
> > stupid. We try to make our money go as far as we can. We
> buy
> > sportier cars than the 45-64 year olds of yester-year.
> Have
> > you seen how lucrative the plastic surgery business has
> > become in the last decade? We DON'T want to get old as
> fast
> > as our parents did!
> >
> > Our music will always be sacred to us. It's when stations
> > get away from the oldies genre and try to incorporate
> disco
> > and classic rock into the mix....that's when they fail.
> > Now, it's taboo to play anything prior to the Beatle era
> > because, honestly, it makes the station sound too old!
> > Oldies stations (or classic hits, if you prefer), can move
>
> > deeper into the 70's so long as it's done cautiously. They
>
> > can play some disco/dance music BUT it can't be part of
> the
> > regular rotation. It needs to be showcased as a "special"
>
> > feature.
> >
> > I've had a lot of success with this format over the years.
>
> > It's very sad to see a lot of companies throwing in the
> > towel. Oldies can be saved by having a fun presentation,
> > great creative imaging and less experimentation with songs
>
> > that should be left alone.
> >
> > A good sales department that understands the format CAN
> make
> > the money come in. It may not be the heavy-hitting
> national
> > business but certainly the locals.
> >
> > I really hope I have the opportunity to program another
> one
> > of these great stations. If you're lucky enough to be
> > programming one now you really need to take a real good
> luck
> > at what's on the air. Is it the same-old "Good times &
> great
> > oldies" imaging over and over? Or, are you being creative
> > and being comtemporary? Do your jox talk about poodle
> > skirts and surfboards? If they do, you're dead! Freshen
> it
> > up and save your station while there's still time!
> >
> > I would be interested in hearing what you guys have to
> > say......
> >
>
It's not dead because it's contraversial! You're either a fan of the format or you're not. Judging by the posts, you either want it to continue to hang around or you'd like to see it die yesterday. But, either way, there's a lot of passion in the opinions!
>
> For nearly 20 years I have been involved with Oldies as a
> > programmer and air personality in markets ranging from Los
>
> > Angeles to San Francisco to Jacksonville to Savannah. In
> > every single case, the company I left decided that oldies
> > wasn't going to work for them financially. They either
> > flipped it within a year after my departure or, most
> > recently, they made me and my staff company casualties.
> It's
> > been discussed on this board time and time again that ad
> > agencies aren't interested in that older demo anymore. We
> > all know that they are staffed by folks that are in their
> > 20's and 30's and they certainly couldn't care less about
> > buying time on an oldies station. The question becomes,
> are
> > the agencies serving their clients best interest?
> >
> > Adults over 45 generally have far more spendable income
> than
> > an 18-44 year old. They (actually, "We") are not as "brand
>
> > loyal" as we used to be. We shop at warehouse clubs now
> > instead of being loyal to department stores. So much for
> > "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". The business
> that
> > gives us the best price is where we tend to flock. We
> aren't
> > stupid. We try to make our money go as far as we can. We
> buy
> > sportier cars than the 45-64 year olds of yester-year.
> Have
> > you seen how lucrative the plastic surgery business has
> > become in the last decade? We DON'T want to get old as
> fast
> > as our parents did!
> >
> > Our music will always be sacred to us. It's when stations
> > get away from the oldies genre and try to incorporate
> disco
> > and classic rock into the mix....that's when they fail.
> > Now, it's taboo to play anything prior to the Beatle era
> > because, honestly, it makes the station sound too old!
> > Oldies stations (or classic hits, if you prefer), can move
>
> > deeper into the 70's so long as it's done cautiously. They
>
> > can play some disco/dance music BUT it can't be part of
> the
> > regular rotation. It needs to be showcased as a "special"
>
> > feature.
> >
> > I've had a lot of success with this format over the years.
>
> > It's very sad to see a lot of companies throwing in the
> > towel. Oldies can be saved by having a fun presentation,
> > great creative imaging and less experimentation with songs
>
> > that should be left alone.
> >
> > A good sales department that understands the format CAN
> make
> > the money come in. It may not be the heavy-hitting
> national
> > business but certainly the locals.
> >
> > I really hope I have the opportunity to program another
> one
> > of these great stations. If you're lucky enough to be
> > programming one now you really need to take a real good
> luck
> > at what's on the air. Is it the same-old "Good times &
> great
> > oldies" imaging over and over? Or, are you being creative
> > and being comtemporary? Do your jox talk about poodle
> > skirts and surfboards? If they do, you're dead! Freshen
> it
> > up and save your station while there's still time!
> >
> > I would be interested in hearing what you guys have to
> > say......
> >
>
It's not dead because it's contraversial! You're either a fan of the format or you're not. Judging by the posts, you either want it to continue to hang around or you'd like to see it die yesterday. But, either way, there's a lot of passion in the opinions!
C
cmatthews
Guest
> > For nearly 20 years I have been involved with Oldies as a
>
> > > programmer and air personality in markets ranging from
> Los
> >
> > > Angeles to San Francisco to Jacksonville to Savannah. In
>
> > > every single case, the company I left decided that
> oldies
> > > wasn't going to work for them financially. They either
> > > flipped it within a year after my departure or, most
> > > recently, they made me and my staff company casualties.
> > It's
> > > been discussed on this board time and time again that ad
>
> > > agencies aren't interested in that older demo anymore.
> We
> > > all know that they are staffed by folks that are in
> their
> > > 20's and 30's and they certainly couldn't care less
> about
> > > buying time on an oldies station. The question becomes,
> > are
> > > the agencies serving their clients best interest?
> > >
> > > Adults over 45 generally have far more spendable income
> > than
> > > an 18-44 year old. They (actually, "We") are not as
> "brand
> >
> > > loyal" as we used to be. We shop at warehouse clubs now
>
> > > instead of being loyal to department stores. So much for
>
> > > "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". The business
> > that
> > > gives us the best price is where we tend to flock. We
> > aren't
> > > stupid. We try to make our money go as far as we can. We
>
> > buy
> > > sportier cars than the 45-64 year olds of yester-year.
> > Have
> > > you seen how lucrative the plastic surgery business has
> > > become in the last decade? We DON'T want to get old as
> > fast
> > > as our parents did!
> > >
> > > Our music will always be sacred to us. It's when
> stations
> > > get away from the oldies genre and try to incorporate
> > disco
> > > and classic rock into the mix....that's when they fail.
>
> > > Now, it's taboo to play anything prior to the Beatle era
>
> > > because, honestly, it makes the station sound too old!
> > > Oldies stations (or classic hits, if you prefer), can
> move
> >
> > > deeper into the 70's so long as it's done cautiously.
> They
> >
> > > can play some disco/dance music BUT it can't be part of
> > the
> > > regular rotation. It needs to be showcased as a
> "special"
> >
> > > feature.
> > >
> > > I've had a lot of success with this format over the
> years.
> >
> > > It's very sad to see a lot of companies throwing in the
> > > towel. Oldies can be saved by having a fun presentation,
>
> > > great creative imaging and less experimentation with
> songs
> >
> > > that should be left alone.
> > >
> > > A good sales department that understands the format CAN
> > make
> > > the money come in. It may not be the heavy-hitting
> > national
> > > business but certainly the locals.
> > >
> > > I really hope I have the opportunity to program another
> > one
> > > of these great stations. If you're lucky enough to be
> > > programming one now you really need to take a real good
> > luck
> > > at what's on the air. Is it the same-old "Good times &
> > great
> > > oldies" imaging over and over? Or, are you being
> creative
> > > and being comtemporary? Do your jox talk about poodle
> > > skirts and surfboards? If they do, you're dead! Freshen
>
> > it
> > > up and save your station while there's still time!
> > >
> > > I would be interested in hearing what you guys have to
> > > say......
> > >
> >
I agree. Well stated.
<P ID="signature">______________
Chuck Matthews Voiceovers
[email protected]
http://voices.planetcharley.com
http://chuckmatthews1.voice123.com</P>
>
> > > programmer and air personality in markets ranging from
> Los
> >
> > > Angeles to San Francisco to Jacksonville to Savannah. In
>
> > > every single case, the company I left decided that
> oldies
> > > wasn't going to work for them financially. They either
> > > flipped it within a year after my departure or, most
> > > recently, they made me and my staff company casualties.
> > It's
> > > been discussed on this board time and time again that ad
>
> > > agencies aren't interested in that older demo anymore.
> We
> > > all know that they are staffed by folks that are in
> their
> > > 20's and 30's and they certainly couldn't care less
> about
> > > buying time on an oldies station. The question becomes,
> > are
> > > the agencies serving their clients best interest?
> > >
> > > Adults over 45 generally have far more spendable income
> > than
> > > an 18-44 year old. They (actually, "We") are not as
> "brand
> >
> > > loyal" as we used to be. We shop at warehouse clubs now
>
> > > instead of being loyal to department stores. So much for
>
> > > "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". The business
> > that
> > > gives us the best price is where we tend to flock. We
> > aren't
> > > stupid. We try to make our money go as far as we can. We
>
> > buy
> > > sportier cars than the 45-64 year olds of yester-year.
> > Have
> > > you seen how lucrative the plastic surgery business has
> > > become in the last decade? We DON'T want to get old as
> > fast
> > > as our parents did!
> > >
> > > Our music will always be sacred to us. It's when
> stations
> > > get away from the oldies genre and try to incorporate
> > disco
> > > and classic rock into the mix....that's when they fail.
>
> > > Now, it's taboo to play anything prior to the Beatle era
>
> > > because, honestly, it makes the station sound too old!
> > > Oldies stations (or classic hits, if you prefer), can
> move
> >
> > > deeper into the 70's so long as it's done cautiously.
> They
> >
> > > can play some disco/dance music BUT it can't be part of
> > the
> > > regular rotation. It needs to be showcased as a
> "special"
> >
> > > feature.
> > >
> > > I've had a lot of success with this format over the
> years.
> >
> > > It's very sad to see a lot of companies throwing in the
> > > towel. Oldies can be saved by having a fun presentation,
>
> > > great creative imaging and less experimentation with
> songs
> >
> > > that should be left alone.
> > >
> > > A good sales department that understands the format CAN
> > make
> > > the money come in. It may not be the heavy-hitting
> > national
> > > business but certainly the locals.
> > >
> > > I really hope I have the opportunity to program another
> > one
> > > of these great stations. If you're lucky enough to be
> > > programming one now you really need to take a real good
> > luck
> > > at what's on the air. Is it the same-old "Good times &
> > great
> > > oldies" imaging over and over? Or, are you being
> creative
> > > and being comtemporary? Do your jox talk about poodle
> > > skirts and surfboards? If they do, you're dead! Freshen
>
> > it
> > > up and save your station while there's still time!
> > >
> > > I would be interested in hearing what you guys have to
> > > say......
> > >
> >
I agree. Well stated.
<P ID="signature">______________
Chuck Matthews Voiceovers
[email protected]
http://voices.planetcharley.com
http://chuckmatthews1.voice123.com</P>
C
cmatthews
Guest
Re: Oldies - Bury Them
>
> First, Miami is 40% Hispanic, mostly Cuban, which don't
> relate to the format at all. Second, Miami is about 20%
> black. In all of my years as an oldies programmer I have
> never gotten more than 2 or 3% of the black audience,
> although I have consistantly maintained top shares 25-54,
> 35-64, and yes, I've even had the number one station 12+ in
> very recent years. My point is that with the minority
> population being as high as it is, WMJX does very well, but
> would do much better if you only look at the anglo numbers.
>
> Passion? Oldies listeners have a tremendous amount of
> passion for this music! Get real!
>
> Every format has markets where it can succeed and markets
> where it can fail miserably. The latest example: Jack. A
> major failure in New York, a monster in Los Angeles (the
> best numbers KCBS has had in many years. I should know, I
> worked there when it was CHR as well as oldies).
>
> Oldies CAN continue to do very well in markets where it
> hasn't been bastardized and butchered by bad programming and
> sales departments that don't have a clue about how to sell
> it. I've always worked with sales to package the station to
> make it an easier sell, and it does work. It takes effort
> and creativity.
>
> How many programmers and jocks reading this right now have
> ever had the feeling that you and your station have been
> treated like "the read-headed stepchild"? Yes, it can be a
> struggle to maintain your integrity but you can't let 'em
> beat you down!
>
Right on Pat! WMJI/Cleveland, where I spent six wonderful years, is an anomaly within the oldies genre. Arguably the #1 oldies station in the country the last 5-7 years. WMJI is listened to primarily by whites. I've always referred to oldies as "white oldies". African-Americans dont really dig Motown. They're into the R&B more. Just the way it is. So oldies would not be big in a town with Miami's demographic make-up. <P ID="signature">______________
Chuck Matthews Voiceovers
[email protected]
http://voices.planetcharley.com
http://chuckmatthews1.voice123.com</P>
>
> First, Miami is 40% Hispanic, mostly Cuban, which don't
> relate to the format at all. Second, Miami is about 20%
> black. In all of my years as an oldies programmer I have
> never gotten more than 2 or 3% of the black audience,
> although I have consistantly maintained top shares 25-54,
> 35-64, and yes, I've even had the number one station 12+ in
> very recent years. My point is that with the minority
> population being as high as it is, WMJX does very well, but
> would do much better if you only look at the anglo numbers.
>
> Passion? Oldies listeners have a tremendous amount of
> passion for this music! Get real!
>
> Every format has markets where it can succeed and markets
> where it can fail miserably. The latest example: Jack. A
> major failure in New York, a monster in Los Angeles (the
> best numbers KCBS has had in many years. I should know, I
> worked there when it was CHR as well as oldies).
>
> Oldies CAN continue to do very well in markets where it
> hasn't been bastardized and butchered by bad programming and
> sales departments that don't have a clue about how to sell
> it. I've always worked with sales to package the station to
> make it an easier sell, and it does work. It takes effort
> and creativity.
>
> How many programmers and jocks reading this right now have
> ever had the feeling that you and your station have been
> treated like "the read-headed stepchild"? Yes, it can be a
> struggle to maintain your integrity but you can't let 'em
> beat you down!
>
Right on Pat! WMJI/Cleveland, where I spent six wonderful years, is an anomaly within the oldies genre. Arguably the #1 oldies station in the country the last 5-7 years. WMJI is listened to primarily by whites. I've always referred to oldies as "white oldies". African-Americans dont really dig Motown. They're into the R&B more. Just the way it is. So oldies would not be big in a town with Miami's demographic make-up. <P ID="signature">______________
Chuck Matthews Voiceovers
[email protected]
http://voices.planetcharley.com
http://chuckmatthews1.voice123.com</P>
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Re: Oldies
OK, here we go:
One of the Oldies formats major problems right now is overcoming the fact the format did not evolve for at least 15 years, in most cases. Oldies is probably the only format that changed little over that period of time, therefore finding it's almost too late now to get caught up. The gentle and continuous evolution from dependance on 50s music to 70s hits should have been going on since the mid 90s.
And it's not just the music- it's the imaging and jocks. Talking about "on this day in history", what songs hit where on the charts and doing the same Righteous Brothers tidbits for 20 years is a death warrant. Top 5 countdowns, American Bandstand weekends and the obsession with old, tired sound bytes are also killers. The stations are perceived as old because they SOUND old. I'm not totally referring to sounding old to listeners (which I believe they do) but also sounding old to GMs, Sellers and Clients. It all adds up to the perception of "oh, yeah, the Good times-Great oldies station--whatever".
To me, it's never been a question of whether the format CAN survive but a matter of WILL Programmers give their bosses reasons to support the format. Most Programmers got so stuck on the "old" oldies model for so long that once they got behind the eight ball, everybody started to scramble and panic. GMs and owners see those as very bad signs and all of a sudden, Oldies seems, well, OLD to them.
If you've evolved to a 60s and 70s hits position (without being too Carpenters or too classic rock or too disco), congratulations- there may be hope for you.
If you're still playing Gary Lewis & The Playboys, Hang On Sloopy and Sugar Sugar, (as Carole King would sing), "it's too late, baby, oh it's too late".
Most of the Oldies format's current problems are self-inflicted.
>
> I would be interested in hearing what you guys have to say....
>
OK, here we go:
One of the Oldies formats major problems right now is overcoming the fact the format did not evolve for at least 15 years, in most cases. Oldies is probably the only format that changed little over that period of time, therefore finding it's almost too late now to get caught up. The gentle and continuous evolution from dependance on 50s music to 70s hits should have been going on since the mid 90s.
And it's not just the music- it's the imaging and jocks. Talking about "on this day in history", what songs hit where on the charts and doing the same Righteous Brothers tidbits for 20 years is a death warrant. Top 5 countdowns, American Bandstand weekends and the obsession with old, tired sound bytes are also killers. The stations are perceived as old because they SOUND old. I'm not totally referring to sounding old to listeners (which I believe they do) but also sounding old to GMs, Sellers and Clients. It all adds up to the perception of "oh, yeah, the Good times-Great oldies station--whatever".
To me, it's never been a question of whether the format CAN survive but a matter of WILL Programmers give their bosses reasons to support the format. Most Programmers got so stuck on the "old" oldies model for so long that once they got behind the eight ball, everybody started to scramble and panic. GMs and owners see those as very bad signs and all of a sudden, Oldies seems, well, OLD to them.
If you've evolved to a 60s and 70s hits position (without being too Carpenters or too classic rock or too disco), congratulations- there may be hope for you.
If you're still playing Gary Lewis & The Playboys, Hang On Sloopy and Sugar Sugar, (as Carole King would sing), "it's too late, baby, oh it's too late".
Most of the Oldies format's current problems are self-inflicted.
>
> I would be interested in hearing what you guys have to say....
>
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Oldies
I agree most sellers today have no clue about Oldies- they know nothing about the format, it's listeners nor how to sell it (and the increasing number of 35 yr old GMs will not help the cause). But I can go back to the mid-late 90s and the same could be said- to a 25 year old seller, Oldies just isn't cool and hip and sexy and it's not important to them (therefore, they'll never support it because they see it as getting in the way of earning a living).
If your comment about "bastardized and butchered by bad programming" comment is about dropping pre-Beatles and adding 70s, please wake up- IT'S A MUST. Please name one radio format that stayed exactly the same for 20 years and had success doing it. This current situation with Oldies has been brewing for years- only now are Programmers starting to scratch their heads and say, "geez- I guess we ought to think about dropping The Shoop Shoop Song and consider adding Old Time Rock & Roll". DUH. What's happening now should have begun to happen in the mid-90s. Now, it's a literal format change to drop Gary & The Playboys songs and add Eagles & Elton (and mostly done as a REACTION and matter of survival).
Sure, Oldies can keep playing The Lion Sleeps Tonight (Tokens) and have audiences over 60 but they have nobody to blame but themselves when sales goes to hell and the ratings soon follow.
>
> Oldies CAN continue to do very well in markets where it
> hasn't been bastardized and butchered by bad programming and
> sales departments that don't have a clue about how to sell
> it. I've always worked with sales to package the station to
> make it an easier sell, and it does work. It takes effort
> and creativity.
>
> How many programmers and jocks reading this right now have
> ever had the feeling that you and your station have been
> treated like "the read-headed stepchild"? Yes, it can be a
> struggle to maintain your integrity but you can't let 'em
> beat you down!
>
I agree most sellers today have no clue about Oldies- they know nothing about the format, it's listeners nor how to sell it (and the increasing number of 35 yr old GMs will not help the cause). But I can go back to the mid-late 90s and the same could be said- to a 25 year old seller, Oldies just isn't cool and hip and sexy and it's not important to them (therefore, they'll never support it because they see it as getting in the way of earning a living).
If your comment about "bastardized and butchered by bad programming" comment is about dropping pre-Beatles and adding 70s, please wake up- IT'S A MUST. Please name one radio format that stayed exactly the same for 20 years and had success doing it. This current situation with Oldies has been brewing for years- only now are Programmers starting to scratch their heads and say, "geez- I guess we ought to think about dropping The Shoop Shoop Song and consider adding Old Time Rock & Roll". DUH. What's happening now should have begun to happen in the mid-90s. Now, it's a literal format change to drop Gary & The Playboys songs and add Eagles & Elton (and mostly done as a REACTION and matter of survival).
Sure, Oldies can keep playing The Lion Sleeps Tonight (Tokens) and have audiences over 60 but they have nobody to blame but themselves when sales goes to hell and the ratings soon follow.
>
> Oldies CAN continue to do very well in markets where it
> hasn't been bastardized and butchered by bad programming and
> sales departments that don't have a clue about how to sell
> it. I've always worked with sales to package the station to
> make it an easier sell, and it does work. It takes effort
> and creativity.
>
> How many programmers and jocks reading this right now have
> ever had the feeling that you and your station have been
> treated like "the read-headed stepchild"? Yes, it can be a
> struggle to maintain your integrity but you can't let 'em
> beat you down!
>
Re: Oldies - Bury Them
>
> Right on Pat! WMJI/Cleveland, where I spent six wonderful
> years, is an anomaly within the oldies genre. Arguably the
> #1 oldies station in the country the last 5-7 years. WMJI is
> listened to primarily by whites. I've always referred to
> oldies as "white oldies". African-Americans dont really dig
> Motown. They're into the R&B more. Just the way it is. So
> oldies would not be big in a town with Miami's demographic
> make-up.
Actually, I used Miami as an example of a well performing oldies station, not a poorly performing one. As mentioned, 30% of The Miami station's AQH is Hispanic,
Miami Hispanics index at nearly 1 to 1 on oldies usage in the demo, and the market is no more Black than Cleveland. One is 19.4% and the other is 19.8%. So there is high comparability between Miami and Cleveland!
My point is that, whatever the market, olides is, like most other radio formats, a niche format that does not get even 10% share in its most core demos in the biggest oldies markets, and much less in the more fragmented markets or poorly programmed stations.
>
> Right on Pat! WMJI/Cleveland, where I spent six wonderful
> years, is an anomaly within the oldies genre. Arguably the
> #1 oldies station in the country the last 5-7 years. WMJI is
> listened to primarily by whites. I've always referred to
> oldies as "white oldies". African-Americans dont really dig
> Motown. They're into the R&B more. Just the way it is. So
> oldies would not be big in a town with Miami's demographic
> make-up.
Actually, I used Miami as an example of a well performing oldies station, not a poorly performing one. As mentioned, 30% of The Miami station's AQH is Hispanic,
Miami Hispanics index at nearly 1 to 1 on oldies usage in the demo, and the market is no more Black than Cleveland. One is 19.4% and the other is 19.8%. So there is high comparability between Miami and Cleveland!
My point is that, whatever the market, olides is, like most other radio formats, a niche format that does not get even 10% share in its most core demos in the biggest oldies markets, and much less in the more fragmented markets or poorly programmed stations.
> > When is thread dead yet?
> > >
> It's not dead because it's contraversial! You're either a
> fan of the format or you're not. Judging by the posts, you
> either want it to continue to hang around or you'd like to
> see it die yesterday. But, either way, there's a lot of
> passion in the opinions!
>
Alas, it's the same posters making the same arguments again and again and again (pro & con). Most minds seem to be closed on this issue.
> > >
> It's not dead because it's contraversial! You're either a
> fan of the format or you're not. Judging by the posts, you
> either want it to continue to hang around or you'd like to
> see it die yesterday. But, either way, there's a lot of
> passion in the opinions!
>
Alas, it's the same posters making the same arguments again and again and again (pro & con). Most minds seem to be closed on this issue.
D
dgordon
Guest
Re: Oldies - percentages
>
> I looked at a market that has a very well-performing oldies
> stations, Miami. WMJX gets less thana 7 share and is about
> 5th on the average in that demo. In other words, the 45-54
> persons in a 94% sweep, are not listening to oldies. at any
> given time.
>
> So, roughly 13 our of ever 14 listeners is listening to
> something else. 45-54 is not listening to 60's oldies. A
> hell of a lot of 55+ don't like it either. It is not
> anywhere near a dominant format in the demo.
>
>
David,
I don't quite understand your point about percentages. What's wrong with 6% of 45-55 listeners? You can say 94% of that group doesn't listen to oldies, but you can say that about any format for any age group. I bet, in most markets, there isn't a format that gets more than 15% listenership of a given age group. So are you saying dump the format because 85% aren't listening?
I agree that 60's music is getting less and less viable, but there are plenty of markets that still have oldies stations. They must be making some money! Just today, CBS radio switched an AC station in Portland, Oregon to 60's and 70s music. I think oldies stations can hang on for a few more years.
>
> I looked at a market that has a very well-performing oldies
> stations, Miami. WMJX gets less thana 7 share and is about
> 5th on the average in that demo. In other words, the 45-54
> persons in a 94% sweep, are not listening to oldies. at any
> given time.
>
> So, roughly 13 our of ever 14 listeners is listening to
> something else. 45-54 is not listening to 60's oldies. A
> hell of a lot of 55+ don't like it either. It is not
> anywhere near a dominant format in the demo.
>
>
David,
I don't quite understand your point about percentages. What's wrong with 6% of 45-55 listeners? You can say 94% of that group doesn't listen to oldies, but you can say that about any format for any age group. I bet, in most markets, there isn't a format that gets more than 15% listenership of a given age group. So are you saying dump the format because 85% aren't listening?
I agree that 60's music is getting less and less viable, but there are plenty of markets that still have oldies stations. They must be making some money! Just today, CBS radio switched an AC station in Portland, Oregon to 60's and 70s music. I think oldies stations can hang on for a few more years.
Re: Oldies - percentages
>
> I don't quite understand your point about percentages.
> What's wrong with 6% of 45-55 listeners? You can say 94% of
> that group doesn't listen to oldies, but you can say that
> about any format for any age group. I bet, in most markets,
> there isn't a format that gets more than 15% listenership of
> a given age group. So are you saying dump the format because
> 85% aren't listening?
I think that there is a feeling among some here that all boomers want to hear oldies. And the fact is that all groups are fragmented.
The demo issue with oldies is the age of listeners. But it is not a format that is so overwhelming ly popular as to say that the only way to reach boomers is through oldies.
>
> I agree that 60's music is getting less and less viable, but
> there are plenty of markets that still have oldies stations.
> They must be making some money!
In most cases, revenues are flat or off. Only exceptional stations like WMJI are increasing still.
: Just today, CBS radio
> switched an AC station in Portland, Oregon to 60's and 70s
> music. I think oldies stations can hang on for a few more
> years.
In some markets they can. But a lot depends on the ability to get under 55 demos, and the competitive array surrounding an oldies station may have musch to do with this.
>
> I don't quite understand your point about percentages.
> What's wrong with 6% of 45-55 listeners? You can say 94% of
> that group doesn't listen to oldies, but you can say that
> about any format for any age group. I bet, in most markets,
> there isn't a format that gets more than 15% listenership of
> a given age group. So are you saying dump the format because
> 85% aren't listening?
I think that there is a feeling among some here that all boomers want to hear oldies. And the fact is that all groups are fragmented.
The demo issue with oldies is the age of listeners. But it is not a format that is so overwhelming ly popular as to say that the only way to reach boomers is through oldies.
>
> I agree that 60's music is getting less and less viable, but
> there are plenty of markets that still have oldies stations.
> They must be making some money!
In most cases, revenues are flat or off. Only exceptional stations like WMJI are increasing still.
: Just today, CBS radio
> switched an AC station in Portland, Oregon to 60's and 70s
> music. I think oldies stations can hang on for a few more
> years.
In some markets they can. But a lot depends on the ability to get under 55 demos, and the competitive array surrounding an oldies station may have musch to do with this.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Oldies - percentages
Very true, David. I've pointed this out before, that just because a listener is 55 or 60, Oldies isn't THE format amont that crowd. Many use News/Talk, Country, Soft AC, even Classic Rock (if it's done right). Not everybody that's 57 years old is into Motown and the Beach Boys.
>
> I think that there is a feeling among some here that all
> boomers want to hear oldies. And the fact is that all groups
> are fragmented.
>
> The demo issue with oldies is the age of listeners. But it
> is not a format that is so overwhelming ly popular as to say
> that the only way to reach boomers is through oldies.
> >
> > I agree that 60's music is getting less and less viable,
> but
> > there are plenty of markets that still have oldies
> stations.
> > They must be making some money!
>
> In most cases, revenues are flat or off. Only exceptional
> stations like WMJI are increasing still.
>
> : Just today, CBS radio
> > switched an AC station in Portland, Oregon to 60's and 70s
>
> > music. I think oldies stations can hang on for a few more
> > years.
>
> In some markets they can. But a lot depends on the ability
> to get under 55 demos, and the competitive array surrounding
> an oldies station may have musch to do with this.
>
Very true, David. I've pointed this out before, that just because a listener is 55 or 60, Oldies isn't THE format amont that crowd. Many use News/Talk, Country, Soft AC, even Classic Rock (if it's done right). Not everybody that's 57 years old is into Motown and the Beach Boys.
>
> I think that there is a feeling among some here that all
> boomers want to hear oldies. And the fact is that all groups
> are fragmented.
>
> The demo issue with oldies is the age of listeners. But it
> is not a format that is so overwhelming ly popular as to say
> that the only way to reach boomers is through oldies.
> >
> > I agree that 60's music is getting less and less viable,
> but
> > there are plenty of markets that still have oldies
> stations.
> > They must be making some money!
>
> In most cases, revenues are flat or off. Only exceptional
> stations like WMJI are increasing still.
>
> : Just today, CBS radio
> > switched an AC station in Portland, Oregon to 60's and 70s
>
> > music. I think oldies stations can hang on for a few more
> > years.
>
> In some markets they can. But a lot depends on the ability
> to get under 55 demos, and the competitive array surrounding
> an oldies station may have musch to do with this.
>
> Adults over 45 generally have far more spendable income than
> an 18-44 year old.
It doesn't matter. And this isn't just about radio.
Buying a lot doesn't mean anything to advertisers if the decisions about what to buy were not made as a result of hearing/viewing/reading commercials.
The Baby Boom generation needs to start proving it is somehow different from preceding generations when it comes to RESPONDING TO ADVERTISING or the people in that segment will find themselves aging out of most popular culture as the youth movement inevitably marches forward.
The issue is WHETHER ADVERTISING INFLUENCES HOW THEY SPEND rather than how much money they have or their willingness to spend it.
> an 18-44 year old.
It doesn't matter. And this isn't just about radio.
Buying a lot doesn't mean anything to advertisers if the decisions about what to buy were not made as a result of hearing/viewing/reading commercials.
The Baby Boom generation needs to start proving it is somehow different from preceding generations when it comes to RESPONDING TO ADVERTISING or the people in that segment will find themselves aging out of most popular culture as the youth movement inevitably marches forward.
The issue is WHETHER ADVERTISING INFLUENCES HOW THEY SPEND rather than how much money they have or their willingness to spend it.
- Status