Oldies Radio: Dead In S.F.

[BossRadioDJ]

...but alive and well in Los Angeles, if you can trust the Arbitron PPM numbers:


OCTOBER '08 ARBITRON

Monthly PPM 6+ Oct. 08

1. KIIS-FM Top 40 5.7
2. KRTH-FM Classic Hits 5.0

A legacy station. With legacy calls. And a legacy format.

Can't be done, eh?

 

[LKellerIII]

...but alive and well in Los Angeles, if you can trust the Arbitron PPM numbers:


OCTOBER '08 ARBITRON

Monthly PPM 6+ Oct. 08

1. KIIS-FM Top 40 5.7
2. KRTH-FM Classic Hits 5.0

A legacy station. With legacy calls. And a legacy format.

Can't be done, eh?

Watch it DJ - I see a post from David Eduardo coming in which he notes that K-Earth is number 167 in the coveted 25-54 demographic, and is 214th in billing, and is actually living on borrowed time.

But my OWN opinion is - absolutely it can be done. KRTH is a very well formatted and fun station to listen to. The DJs have very limited time to talk, and are reading liners half the time, but it's hard to tell - they're a real presence on the station, and get to open the mike often, even if it's only for a few seconds. Add the great jingles, and a recently expanded play list, and it's a very infectious station.

KRTH 101 is everywhere in LA. We stayed in a Los Agneles hotel last year, and the music being played in the lobbies and on the elevators was KRTH. By the way - I listened to the station a lot over a 2 week period while we were there and heard very little repetition.

Just a few years ago, their playlist was so limited that the station became very boring after a few hours. Mike Phillips (RIP) may have been a great KFRC disc jockey, but KRTH ultimately became a very dull station until Jhani Kaye turned it around.

 

[DavidKaye]

...but alive and well in Los Angeles, if you can trust the Arbitron PPM numbers:


OCTOBER '08 ARBITRON

Monthly PPM 6+ Oct. 08

1. KIIS-FM Top 40 5.7
2. KRTH-FM Classic Hits 5.0

A legacy station. With legacy calls. And a legacy format.

Can't be done, eh?

Why can't people trust the PPM numbers? Having an automatic device record what a person's listening habits are rather than relying on them to write something in a diary is far more accurate, don't you think?

And as to "Top 40", remember that KIIS's progarmming is not rock. It's hip-hop and ballads for the most part, the kind of music that is actually getting sales and listeners.

As for oldies, well, I just listened to an hour of KRTH and it did nothing for me. The woman who was DJing or voicetracking or whatever was really a nothing. The songs were okay, but they've been heard hundreds if not thousands of times before. I don't mind hearing something from the era, but something different, more B-sides and regional hits. KRTH ain't it for me.

Now that Clear Channel's Format Lab has been shrunk from 100 channels to about 5 there's nothing to listen to there anymore. I've got my iTunes running and I'm picking out stations here and there. There are some good obscure ones.

The oldies channel I just picked up is playing "Liar Liar" -- now that's something I haven't heard much.

 

[Madmansam]

Wouldn't M. DUNG's SUNDAY NIGHT IDIOT SHOW play OLDIES?

OLDIES RADIO maybe dead in S.F. but I hear that M. DUNG is returning on NOVEMBER 16 with his SUNDAY NIGHT IDIOT SHOW on KYCY-1550? As I can recall, Didn't Dung play LOTS of OLDIES MUSIC on The Idiot Show especially when it was on KFOG? If so, Yes, OLDIES RADIO maybe dead but there will be an OLDIES SHOW still going?

 

[RadioJunkieMike]

I just listened to an hour of KRTH and it did nothing for me. The woman who was DJing or voicetracking or whatever was really a nothing. The songs were okay, but they've been heard hundreds if not thousands of times before. I don't mind hearing something from the era, but something different, more B-sides and regional hits. KRTH ain't it for me.

Now that Clear Channel's Format Lab has been shrunk from 100 channels to about 5 there's nothing to listen to there anymore. I've got my iTunes running and I'm picking out stations here and there. There are some good obscure ones.

The oldies channel I just picked up is playing "Liar Liar" -- now that's something I haven't heard much.

David, apologies if you've gotten this recommendation before, but Long Island's WLNG, which streams, is pretty amazing music-wise, and would seem to be right up your alley based on what you're saying here.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

The oldies channel I just picked up is playing "Liar Liar" -- now that's something I haven't heard much.

If the Oldies channel was Classic KYA Radio (www.kyaradio.com), then I should point out that "Liar Liar" by The Castaways is featured as a Hitbound this week...

(And if it wasn't Classic KYA, stop by anyway. You just might like it.)

 

[davideduardo]

Watch it DJ - I see a post from David Eduardo coming in which he notes that K-Earth is number 167 in the coveted 25-54 demographic, and is 214th in billing, and is actually living on borrowed time.
Just a few years ago, their playlist was so limited that the station became very boring after a few hours. Mike Phillips (RIP) may have been a great KFRC disc jockey, but KRTH ultimately became a very dull station until Jhani Kaye turned it around.

KRTH did very well in 25-54, too. The interesting thing is that the station has very gradually changed from the traditional all 60's model to a more 70's based playlist while changing the announcing from the worn out immitation-60's puker style to what is really a bright AC pattern, with formatics to match. KRTH has, to a considerable degree, replaced KOSt as the 35+ AC station in LA.

As to KRTH "being heard everywhere" I'd remind you it has about 4% of listening... and, in fact, 5 of the top 10 stations in LA are in Spanish.

 

[LKellerIII]

Watch it DJ - I see a post from David Eduardo coming in which he notes that K-Earth is number 167 in the coveted 25-54 demographic, and is 214th in billing, and is actually living on borrowed time.
Just a few years ago, their playlist was so limited that the station became very boring after a few hours. Mike Phillips (RIP) may have been a great KFRC disc jockey, but KRTH ultimately became a very dull station until Jhani Kaye turned it around.

KRTH did very well in 25-54, too. The interesting thing is that the station has very gradually changed from the traditional all 60's model to a more 70's based playlist while changing the announcing from the worn out immitation-60's puker style to what is really a bright AC pattern, with formatics to match. KRTH has, to a considerable degree, replaced KOSt as the 35+ AC station in LA.

As to KRTH "being heard everywhere" I'd remind you it has about 4% of listening... and, in fact, 5 of the top 10 stations in LA are in Spanish.

Well, OK - I was exaggerating for emphasis - I didn't really mean "everywhere." But I heard KRTH around Southern California being played in various public places fairly often...maybe not as often as you hear KOIT in public in the Bay Area...but surprisingly often...certainly more than I've heard other Oldies or Classic Hits stations in other cities.

 

[DavidKaye]

[....] But I heard KRTH around Southern California being played in various public places fairly often...maybe not as often as you hear KOIT in public in the Bay Area...but surprisingly often...

This begs the question, is KOIT the KRTH of the Bay Area (or vice versa)?

Y'see, I'm still holding strong to the notion that the Bay Area has at least 3 oldies stations, KOIT, KSAN, and KFOG. I guess I should make that 4 with KISQ ("Kiss").

 

[LKellerIII]

[....] But I heard KRTH around Southern California being played in various public places fairly often...maybe not as often as you hear KOIT in public in the Bay Area...but surprisingly often...

This begs the question, is KOIT the KRTH of the Bay Area (or vice versa)?

Y'see, I'm still holding strong to the notion that the Bay Area has at least 3 oldies stations, KOIT, KSAN, and KFOG. I guess I should make that 4 with KISQ ("Kiss").

Well, according to David Eduardo, KRTH may be replacing KOST as the top 35+ station in LA. I think KOST could be considered the KOIT of LA ("Soft Rock, Less Talk") in terms of format,

You're right about the Bay Areas 4 "Oldies" stations, and I think you can add KBLX...and even KKSF during the day time, which is heavy on "old school." Since those stations (except KSAN) also play new music, they have an advantage over Classic Hits/Oldies formats, which is why I don't think KFRC will be replaced.

 

[DaveBayArea]

I didn't grow up in the Bay Area, but I wonder if perhaps the reason a traditional "oldies" or "classic hits" format doesn't work as well here might be just because of the bay area music scene during that era. Were the songs any different on KYA or KFRC vs the hits that were played on - say - KOMA or WLS (the top 40 stations I grew up with)? Or stations anywhere else in the US? Maybe it's as simple as adding a few of the FM hits of the era (Quicksilver, Steve Miller Band, Santana, etc) to your playlist. Or maybe that would alienate the top 40 crowd. I don't know, but I guess KSAN does OK with something like that.

Every year, I participate in the Oldies Marathon Weekend at KKUP (which includes live broadcasts, a car show, and all sorts of goodies) and one thing I notice is that the music presented there seems to be more R&B / blues-oriented than what I perceive to be traditional "oldies". The people coming to these events grew up here for the most part, and they remember different songs than I do. But I grew up in the midwest.

Dave B.

 

[airpab]

I don't think Oldies is dead in the Bay at all ! CBS just screwed it up enormously. Why on "K-Earth" they didn't just clone what their sister in L.A. does is beyond me?

For programmers that are paying attention, this is a wide-open hole to exploit. KRTH smartly has transitioned to Heavy 70's, Lite 60's & 80's, with emphasis on high energy presentation and they're nailing the 25-44 demo, where all the money is!

It works and is working in SoCal and it can/will work in the Bay too! Someone just has to do it right!

Ripe for blow up.....KBWF/95.7, Alice/97.3, MOVIN/99.7 (where KFRC used to be and was making headway before they blew it up).

*KOIT is a sleep-inducer...Don't get that one at all...Hopefully someone will come in and rock their world!

 

[radio dx]

"less rock and more talk" and "we would never talk over your favorite songs" why change a boring thing!

 

[LKellerIII]

"less rock and more talk" and "we would never talk over your favorite songs" why change a boring thing!

Don't forget: "Arbitron rated number one for listening at work!"

Or my personal favorite: "Another guaranteed 30 minute music set comin' up on KOIT."

 

[SFStatic]

Most formats work if you do them right.

 

[landtuna]

I didn't grow up in the Bay Area, but I wonder if perhaps the reason a traditional "oldies" or "classic hits" format doesn't work as well here might be just because of the bay area music scene during that era. Were the songs any different on KYA or KFRC vs the hits that were played on - say - KOMA or WLS (the top 40 stations I grew up with)?

I moved from Top-40 (KTKT and KOMA) to the Bay Area in 1960 as a teenager and didn't notice a huge difference between those two stations and KYA and KEWB which were the premier Top-40's in S.F. Since 3-4 jocks from KTKT had moved to KEWB about the same time I did it seemed even more like old home week.

After returning from Vietnam in '66 though there was a definite change. KYA was about the same (there were others gaining on them though like KFRC and KLOK in Top-40) but KEWB was a news-talker and a couple of FM's had started playing what was then called "album rock". The album rock was heavy with so-called underground bands and local Bay Area Fillmore acts like Quicksilver Messenger Service, Jefferson Airplane and The Grateful Dead. Some of these also were played on the popular AM's although not very often. As the 60's progressed the music changed dramatically to what I have called "protest rock" which became the anti-war anthems. Upon moving out of the Bay Area in '68, first to Portland, OR then to Tucson, AZ and one year later to New York City I found that the music I had left behind in S.F. didn't follow me and remained fairly unique to that area.

I disagree that Oldies won't work in S.F. and the Old Gringo can't beat me into submission!

My two cents. YMMV.

 

[LKellerIII]

I didn't grow up in the Bay Area, but I wonder if perhaps the reason a traditional "oldies" or "classic hits" format doesn't work as well here might be just because of the bay area music scene during that era. Were the songs any different on KYA or KFRC vs the hits that were played on - say - KOMA or WLS (the top 40 stations I grew up with)?

I moved from Top-40 (KTKT and KOMA) to the Bay Area in 1960 as a teenager and didn't notice a huge difference between those two stations and KYA and KEWB which were the premier Top-40's in S.F. Since 3-4 jocks from KTKT had moved to KEWB about the same time I did it seemed even more like old home week.

After returning from Vietnam in '66 though there was a definite change. KYA was about the same (there were others gaining on them though like KFRC and KLOK in Top-40) but KEWB was a news-talker and a couple of FM's had started playing what was then called "album rock". The album rock was heavy with so-called underground bands and local Bay Area Fillmore acts like Quicksilver Messenger Service, Jefferson Airplane and The Grateful Dead. Some of these also were played on the popular AM's although not very often. As the 60's progressed the music changed dramatically to what I have called "protest rock" which became the anti-war anthems. Upon moving out of the Bay Area in '68, first to Portland, OR then to Tucson, AZ and one year later to New York City I found that the music I had left behind in S.F. didn't follow me and remained fairly unique to that area.

I disagree that Oldies won't work in S.F. and the Old Gringo can't beat me into submission!

My two cents. YMMV.

Yet another Oldies radio station wouldn't play "protest" songs and album rock anyway...unless it's the long album version of a big hit like "Light My Fire." I remember that "For What's It's Worth" by Buffalo Springfield was in heavy rotation on both recent versions of KFRC (99.7 and 106.9), but not too many other protest songs else unless you consider other heavy rotation Oldies like "Get Together" by Jesse Colin Young and "Love Train" to be protest songs. I don't. They evoke the 60s era, but they were just fluffy pop hits about love and peace.

Besides, if you want album rock from that era, KFOG is the place to go. But again - they also play new music, and that allows them to claim a wider demographic, much like KOIT in the "Lite" rock format (lite Oldies and new lite rock) and KISQ (mostly old school, but also new R&B), etc...

 

[davideduardo]

I disagree that Oldies won't work in S.F. and the Old Gringo can't beat me into submission!

The reason oldies does not work in most markets is that the age of listeners who like 60's oldies (and older) have no demand from advertisers. This is why stations like WOGL in Philly or WCBS FM in are now doing Classic Hits, a separate format.

 

[LKellerIII]

I disagree that Oldies won't work in S.F. and the Old Gringo can't beat me into submission!

The reason oldies does not work in most markets is that the age of listeners who like 60's oldies (and older) have no demand from advertisers. This is why stations like WOGL in Philly or WCBS FM in are now doing Classic Hits, a separate format.

I think we non-professionals have been using the labels "Oldies" and "Classic Hits" in this thread somewheat interchangeably. DJ started the thread by noting how well K-Earth was doing in the LA PPMs. I'm sure DJ knows that KRTH is "Classic Hits," not "Oldies," as does everyone else who posted a comment.

 

[Domino Rippy]

Ok Keller I'm going to say it again...listen to KRTH and you will hear Jingle "OLDIES Radio Kearth 101 many times during the day. Plus The imaging will say "Oldies Radio" as well. They are not afraid to say "Oldies"