Oldies Radio: Dead In S.F.

[LKellerIII]

Ok Keller I'm going to say it again...listen to KRTH and you will hear Jingle "OLDIES Radio Kearth 101 many times during the day. Plus The imaging will say "Oldies Radio" as well. They are not afraid to say "Oldies"

Yeah, yeah...I know the jingle you mean...since I have a brain like a sponge, I could sing it for you. Just because the station uses the word "Oldies" occasionally does not make it a traditional "Oldies" station. It clearly is not, and most of their imaging does not use the "O" word.

David Eduardo bothered to point out (again) that "Oldies" are not "Classic Hits" and I responded that we were using the two words interchangeably...that's all.

And if KRTH is not afraid to occasionally use the O word, they are one of the few...I think most Classic Hits stations have added the O word to George Carlin's list of 7 words you can't say on air.

 

[landtuna]

Cracks me up that an argument ensues every time someone uses either "oldies" or "classic hits".

Clearly, those of us who like Be-Bop, Rock 'n Roll, Folk Rock, Pop Rock, and all the other rock variations from the late 50's through the early 80's, don't give a damn what the label is.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

Clearly, those of us who like Be-Bop, Rock 'n Roll, Folk Rock, Pop Rock, and all the other rock variations from the late 50's through the early 80's, don't give a damn what the label is.

But Tuna ... isn't Be-Bop a variation of Jazz?

(There's Cool Jazz, Traditional Jazz, Be-Bop Jazz, Smooth Jazz ... oh lord. Quick! Next post!!!)

 

[davideduardo]

Cracks me up that an argument ensues every time someone uses either "oldies" or "classic hits".

What would you say if someone called an AC station "urban?" Labels establish common ground; "oldies" is not the same format as "classic hits" because we know the definition applied to each.

Clearly, those of us who like Be-Bop, Rock 'n Roll, Folk Rock, Pop Rock, and all the other rock variations from the late 50's through the early 80's, don't give a damn what the label is.

The labels, as I have mentioned before, are mostly intended to allow time buyers in cities distant from a station to understand the focus of a station. Classic Hits means, to a buyer, a fresher batch of music as opposed to "oldies" which indicates a lot of 55+ spillage.

The labels also aid people who are not in a market to at least understand the competitive array, knowing that a Classic Hits station in oen market may be significantly different than one in another; KOLA and WOGL are good contrast comparisons (particularly since KOLA is, so far, the only PPM #1 25-54 Classic Hits station in its market).

 

[davideduardo]

I think we non-professionals have been using the labels "Oldies" and "Classic Hits" in this thread somewheat interchangeably. DJ started the thread by noting how well K-Earth was doing in the LA PPMs. I'm sure DJ knows that KRTH is "Classic Hits," not "Oldies," as does everyone else who posted a comment.

KRTH is the biggest station stradling the Oldies and Classic Hits fence. An era map shows about equal plays on either side of 1970, in fact. However, they are making it work in LA in part due to the non-music elements which are modern and more Hot AC-like than most Oldies stations have been.

In Riverside / San Bernardino, where most of the LA Mt. Wilson signals are very good (70% of local listening is to LA stations, in fact) KRTH, with one of the larger signals, gets a 2 share or less 25-54 to KOLA's 7 to 8 shares... KOLA is a true 70's based Classic Hits, while KRTH is a bit more mature musically.

 

[landtuna]

But Tuna ... isn't Be-Bop a variation of Jazz?

(There's Cool Jazz, Traditional Jazz, Be-Bop Jazz, Smooth Jazz ... oh lord. Quick! Next post!!!)

Unless you're pulling my chain.....no. Be-Bop was coined in the mid/late 50's to describe the type of music being played by Elvis, Rick Nelson, et al, and the Doo Wop crossover acts. I've never heard the term Be-Bop applied to any form of jazz. I didn't live within range of Freed so never heard his Rock 'n Roll definition until some years later but RnR seems to have replaced Be-Bop sometime around 1960.

Smooth Jazz always seemed to me to be more akin to Easy Listening/R&B combo than 'real' jazz (music with no beat). And BTW, you forgot Progressive Jazz which seemed to be a combination of "music with a purpose" combined with the wanderings of true/traditional jazz.

Disclaimer: I'm just a poor, old ordinary listener and didn't pay much attention to what the industry called the various formats. My definitions come from memory which I will admit in advance is not what it used to be and probably doesn't conform to industry 'standards', the Old Gringo version or anyone else's. Nor do I have an Arbitron dog in this fight. They're just labels to me and have lots of overlap.

 

[radio dx]

Just tag it "Hits & Memories" that should cover everything from oldies & classics to current.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

...as opposed to "oldies" which indicates a lot of 55+ spillage.

Did the Old Gringo just refer to some of us (55+) as "spillage"?

All Access headline: Shocker! Radio geeks insulted by insider!

I think an immediate apology is in order! Harrumph! Harrumph!
(Hey, I didn't get a "harrumph!" from you...)

But wait! Wouldn't that mean David is also "spillage"? ;D


Disclaimer: You all know this is tongue-in-cheek, right?
Most of us appreciate DE's insight and knowledge,
not to mention the yearbook archive.

 

[JEREMIAH]

LET'S BOP.

LAND TUNA.:THE ELVIS, CARL PERKINS TYPE OF MUSIC WAS CALLED "ROCKA BILLY) NOT BEBOP.

CHARLIE PARKER AND DIZZY GILLESPIE PLAYED BE BOP.


JERRY GORDON KNUU LAS VEGAS

 

[davideduardo]

Did the Old Gringo just refer to some of us (55+) as "spillage"?

All Access headline: Shocker! Radio geeks insulted by insider!

I understand the humor...

But you point out that some lurkers may not understand the term. When an agency makes a buy, they specifiy the demo on which the cost per point will be based, such as men 21 to 44. If a station has women, or men over 44 or under 21, all that is considered spillage and the price a station establishes has to meet the agency goal only in the target. Not one cent more will be paid for the out-of-demo listeners... so they are called spillage.

Thanks for the disclaimer... it's appreciated!

 

[davideduardo]

Unless you're pulling my chain.....no. Be-Bop was coined in the mid/late 50's to describe the type of music being played by Elvis, Rick Nelson, et al, and the Doo Wop crossover acts. I've never heard the term Be-Bop applied to any form of jazz. I didn't live within range of Freed so never heard his Rock 'n Roll definition until some years later but RnR seems to have replaced Be-Bop sometime around 1960.

I lived in the home of Alan Freed, in Cleveland, and listend to him, although I was quite young. He called the music rock 'n roll, and he has the credit for inventing the term in most circles. He never, as far as I can remember, called it bebop or bop. I worked, a few years later, at WJMO, which was R&B and WCUY which was real jazz. Bop and bebop were r&b and jazz terms.

 

[landtuna]

LAND TUNA.:THE ELVIS, CARL PERKINS TYPE OF MUSIC WAS CALLED "ROCKA BILLY) NOT BEBOP.

Rockabilly and Be-bop were music forms produced by groups like Bill Haley, Everly Brothers, Buddy Holly and Elvis (before he switched to ballads) having a mutual basis in Country (then called Hillbilly) music but Be-bop also contained much more Popular and remnants of Doo Wop that Rockabilly ever had.

CHARLIE PARKER AND DIZZY GILLESPIE PLAYED BE BOP.

With all due respect to Wikipedia, Be-bop was a form of Popular music and was not related to Jazz or Swing other than having a common basis in music evolution in general.

Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie are both historically described by their peers as jazz musicians. With the Wikipedia exception, I have never heard of either being related to be-bop in any way.

As I stated in my last post, I am not a radio or music expert of any kind but I did become of age in the 50's and remember very well the common terminology for radio-played music at that time. It may not mesh well with the professional description but I think if you ask anyone my general age you'd get a similar answer.

 

[SFStatic]

Most any professor of jazz will tell you that be-bop is a jazz genre, period. Jerry Gordon is correct. Miles and Diz played be-bop, Elvis never did. Diz was a nice guy, Miles was a dick, by the way.

 

[davideduardo]

Rockabilly and Be-bop were music forms produced by groups like Bill Haley, Everly Brothers, Buddy Holly and Elvis (before he switched to ballads) having a mutual basis in Country (then called Hillbilly) music but Be-bop also contained much more Popular and remnants of Doo Wop that Rockabilly ever had.

Bebop is jazz, pure and simple. See these references.

From the Encarta Encyclopedia


"bebop

be·bop [b bòp]
noun
fast complex jazz: fast jazz music with complex harmonies and melodies.
Charlie Parker was the most famous exponent of the style.

[Mid-20th century. An imitation of either the two-beat phrase of such music or the nonsense syllables of scat singing]

-be·bop·per, noun

Microsoft® Encarta® 2007. © 1993-2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Fronm the Oxford Concise American Dictionary

bebop
n noun a type of jazz originating in the 1940s and characterized by complex harmony and rhythms.

DERIVATIVES
bebopper noun

ORIGIN
1940s (originally US): imitative of the typical rhythm of this music.

 

[Radknowski]

Unless you're pulling my chain.....no. Be-Bop was coined in the mid/late 50's to describe the type of music being played by Elvis, Rick Nelson, et al, and the Doo Wop crossover acts. I've never heard the term Be-Bop applied to any form of jazz. I didn't live within range of Freed so never heard his Rock 'n Roll definition until some years later but RnR seems to have replaced Be-Bop sometime around 1960.

I lived in the home of Alan Freed, in Cleveland, and listend to him, although I was quite young. He called the music rock 'n roll, and he has the credit for inventing the term in most circles. He never, as far as I can remember, called it bebop or bop. I worked, a few years later, at WJMO, which was R&B and WCUY which was real jazz. Bop and bebop were r&b and jazz terms.

Historical note: Alan Freed, aka The Moondog, imported some of his act from George "Hound Dog" Lorenz who lit up Western New York and most of the east coast of America on the 50 thousand Watt blowtorch known as WKBW, Buffalo.

 

[davideduardo]

Historical note: Freed imported some of his act from George "Hound Dog" Lorenz who lit up Western New York and most of the east coast of America on the 50 thousand Watt blowtorch known as WKBW, Buffalo.

That would be rather unlikely and sounds a bit like an urban legend, as KB had no day or night signal in Cleveland... it is so directional at night that at Dunkirk and Jamestown and Erie you could not hear it at all at night... still can't. So, if Freed could not hear KB, it would be hard to copy someone there.

 

[cyberdad]

Strange as it may seem, and despite the severe nighttime pattern, KB was regularly audible most nights under KOMA where I was in college in Eastern Iowa in the late '60s. Sometimes it could even be a pest. Maybe it wasn't supposed to be going west...but it certainly managed to do just that.

 

[davideduardo]

Strange as it may seem, and despite the severe nighttime pattern, KB was regularly audible most nights under KOMA where I was in college in Eastern Iowa in the late '60s. Sometimes it could even be a pest. Maybe it wasn't supposed to be going west...but it certainly managed to do just that.

And I used to get KOMA in Cleveland much better than KB...

A friend's family had a weekend place outside Dunkirk, NY, and we could get KB in the daytime. At sunset, it was just gone. If you look at the patterns of both, they are very, very tight.

 

[landtuna]

Bebop is jazz, pure and simple. See these references.

Like I said before, you'd have a hard time proving the term to anyone, like me, who grew up in the 50's and heard songs like Rick Nelson's "Be Bop Baby".

Be Bop might have had it origins in jazz but it certainly wasn't jazz - at least not what was being played during that time. And I don't recall any form of jazz being dance music, which Be Bop certainly was (and probably related more to Swing dancing in that vein).

Guess we're just going to disagree on this definition. Oh well.....it won't change the world.

 

[Bob_Hudson]

Bebop is jazz, pure and simple. See these references.

Like I said before, you'd have a hard time proving the term to anyone, like me, who grew up in the 50's and heard songs like Rick Nelson's "Be Bop Baby".

Be Bop might have had it origins in jazz but it certainly wasn't jazz - at least not what was being played during that time. And I don't recall any form of jazz being dance music, which Be Bop certainly was (and probably related more to Swing dancing in that vein).

Guess we're just going to disagree on this definition. Oh well.....it won't change the world.

It's you against every musicologist: "Be Bop" as a music genre is jazz - in rock "be bop" was basically a nonsensical lyric as in Be Bop Baby, Be Bop A Lula. "Be Bop" jazz had only a back door influence on rock. Read the article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bebop