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Oldies return to Knoxville

S

SuperQ

Guest
98.7 Earl FM was going to beat Jack because it was local, not ABC satellite.

Now 98.7 WOKI is ABC satellite with Scott Shannon's True Oldies Channel.
 
SuperQ said:
98.7 Earl FM was going to beat Jack because it was local, not ABC satellite.

Now 98.7 WOKI is ABC satellite with Scott Shannon's True Oldies Channel.

Well, I guess Citadel had to do something considering a daytimer AM (WQBB) beat WOKI-FM in the Spring Book persons 12+.

Can't really see how it's even possible that happend. Or that EARL didn't beat JACK because in the Citadel letter to advertisers dates October 14, 2005 it said:

"Earl’s music and programming can be adjusted to the tastes of people right here in East
Tennessee, whereas Jack is a “one-size fits all” for markets all across the country. Additionally, Earl will be
programmed by award-winning Mike Hammond…" ::)
 
RussAllen said:
SuperQ said:
98.7 Earl FM was going to beat Jack because it was local, not ABC satellite.
Now 98.7 WOKI is ABC satellite with Scott Shannon's True Oldies Channel.

Well, I guess Citadel had to do something considering a daytimer AM (WQBB) beat WOKI-FM in the Spring Book persons 12+.
As in the Adult Standards/Music of Your Life WQBB? That would be something considering all the changes that have taken place at MOYL: Chuck Southcott stepped down as MOYL PD, along with his son Carl (Carl Hampton), Johnny Magnus and Wink Martindale. :eek:
 
RussAllen said:
SuperQ said:
98.7 Earl FM was going to beat Jack because it was local, not ABC satellite.

Now 98.7 WOKI is ABC satellite with Scott Shannon's True Oldies Channel.

Well, I guess Citadel had to do something considering a daytimer AM (WQBB) beat WOKI-FM in the Spring Book persons 12+.

Can't really see how it's even possible that happend. Or that EARL didn't beat JACK because in the Citadel letter to advertisers dates October 14, 2005 it said:

"Earl’s music and programming can be adjusted to the tastes of people right here in East
Tennessee, whereas Jack is a “one-size fits all” for markets all across the country. Additionally, Earl will be
programmed by award-winning Mike Hammond…" ::)

I am sure a lot of people are having a laugh about this.

Anyhow, I am no longer there so, in the words of Michael Vick, I have no dog in this hunt. I do feel bad for Joe Stutler and Angie Wilson. I know Angie will still be working because this was not all she did. No word on Joe yet. They are good people and I only wish them the best.

As for the format, we have it on KJMO and have a local morning show as well. That could be what they do. Who knows....I just do my thing here in Mid-MO and watch from nine hours away.
 
it's possible that this thread has a higher cume that WOKI so only 4-5 people may know about the flip. Does the receptionist over there know about it? ;D


i wonder if "one size fits all" will be in their advertiser piece this time around LOL
 
Well isn't that something, MusicRadio WLSQ screwed up by dumping their GOLD format last month and maybe WOKI could take the ball and jog with it. I knew Knoxville still had a thirst for a Classic Top 40 format, let's hope they don't just run Scott Shannon all day to save money. Some good local jocks that like and know that format would really make it fun! Come on Citadel you have a chance to revive and resuscitate! Get a vintage jingle package from JAM/PAMS get a few local jocks on, a bit of a promotional budget, maybe take what WLSQ was doing and do it better! We'll be listening.
 
First, I don't think the flip came as any surprise to anyone, especially Joe and Angie. Maybe the Oldies format was a surprise, but I think just about everyone knew that change of some kind was coming, especially since "Earl" has been gone for awhile and the station has been simply 98.7WOKI.

Second, are we even positive that this format is here to stay? Could it be a placeholder for a week, a month, or a book to seperate the "Earl" days from another format, say, HotAC? There are rumors swirling that a major syndicated CHR/HotAC morning show is headed for Knoxville. Until today's flip, it seemed as if 98.7 was the only real possibility for that show, considering the stability and popularity of the current shows at Star and B975, and the fact that Hot AC has twice failed on 95,7 & 106.7 twice in the last 10 years.
 
Given the most recent Arbitrons, I'm not surprised at all. Good for Citadel for switching. Of course "True Oldies" is ABC and ABC radio is now Citadel... funny how that all works out ;D As much as I hate satellite formats on FM, the "True Oldies" music mix is really good.. so I am very happy today. All Access says that no one was fired, so Joe and Angle might be on Monday morning.

As for whether or not the move is temporary, it would be very stupid to do that on a frequency that's known for frequent changes anyway. They will never get advertiser support if they keep changing. What advertiser would want to commit to a contract on a station that can't make up its mind on what it wants to be?

When you mention a syndicated CHR/Hot AC morning show, I sure hope you weren't referring to Bob & Sherri. They are just awful. They failed miserably in Nashville, and they would do just as poorly on a Knoxville signal. However, I think they could do very well on WSEV-FM Mix 105.5 in Sevier County. Their current morning show (The Redneck & the Redcoat) is just about the worst I've heard anywhere.
 
RMarino said:
When you mention a syndicated CHR/Hot AC morning show, I sure hope you weren't referring to Bob & Sherri. They are just awful. They failed miserably in Nashville, and they would do just as poorly on a Knoxville signal. However, I think they could do very well on WSEV-FM Mix 105.5 in Sevier County. Their current morning show (The Redneck & the Redcoat) is just about the worst I've heard anywhere.

No, not Bob and Sheri. I always figured they'd be a good fit for the Point, but just playing music in the morning works for them.

I don't know if the deal I was referring to is dead or not, very well may be with this news.
 
Geez! Way to take the cheap route Citadel? We all knew 98.7 would be changing, but come on, a cheap satellite format! Yuck! I was hoping they would flip to Hot AC as they've done with a couple of other stations in other markets recently. There is a definate hole for either a Hot AC or Rhythmic AC in the market now. Or even if they have to do oldies, at least do it locally (even if it's just a voicetracked jukebox). "Jack FM" can get away with satellite because it's jockless anyway and isn't really that noticeable, but I'm sure not in favor of a satellite format with jocks on a station in a market as big as Knoxville. There is no excuse for that at all. It's just plain old cheapness and uninspired programming on Citadel's part. If they aren't going to actually try and do anything with the 98.7 signal, I wish they had just sold it. Also, I actually wish Clear Channel had entered the Knoxville market years ago instead of Citadel. People may hate Clear Channel, but they do tend to show more interest and creativity in formats (even if they are voicetracked). Also, Clear Channel isn't afraid to do younger leaning formats either, and they have the know how and balls to go out and sell the younger formats and demos (something Citadel Knoxville seems to never have had a clue about). All they've ever been interested in are older male leaning formats. Knoxville is in bad need of more female targeted formats (like Hot AC, Rhythmic AC, etc.). In most markets, female targeted formats greatly outnumber male targeted ones, but Knoxville seems to be some weird anomolly to this. It's long been known that there is more ad dollars in targeting female listeners because they make more purchases. Why the big guys in Knoxville don't get this is a mystery to me.

I'm sorry, but 98.7 should be some form of AC. That is where the hole is in both programming and ad dollars. Man, I wish someone like Clear Channel would buy out Citadel in Knoxville. First thing they should do is clean house with the archaic old mentality that manages that place over there. WIVK is the only thing they know about programming, and the only reason that station is so huge is because of heritage. (They could play the sound of dog's farting all month and still pull a 20 share). There certainly are a lot slicker and better sounding country stations in other markets.

Anyway, sorry for the rant, but I've never liked Citadel's Knoxville cluster, and I just don't think they do a good job or really put the effort into it that a company that size in a market this size should. And using a cheap satellite format on 98.7 is yet another example of this.
 
You want another boring AC format instead of these wonderful '60s classics which have been missing from the airwaves for far too long now?

Clear Channel is not the saving grace of radio... I worked for Clear Channel for 9 years. You know what they would have done with 98.7? They would have done one of two things.. It would have been yet another CHR as "98.7 Kiss-FM" with jocks voice-tracked from other markets (probably Atlanta and Tampa) or it would have been another AC as "My 98.7" with voice-tracked jocks from other markets and the worst 300 songs from the '70s, '80s, '90s and today. We already have a fine CHR and AC here, why duplicate what we already have?

Who is to say that if WOKI becomes successful that it might not add jocks to compliment the "True Oldies" programming? It happened in Chicago. They have live mornings and afternoons hosted by Chicago legends, and guess what... WZZN is owned by Citadel too.

Give 'em some credit. They are reaching out to the 45+ audience while no one else has the guts to. And give it some time too. I can't believe its getting complaints and the format is barely 12 hours old yet.
 
I think Oldies is probably a good choice for the signal and it's best chance to go up in the ratings, even though it was not what we were all expecting. From a financial standpoint, going satellite makes sense, but it doesn't sound very good on a decent-sized market station like 98.7.
 
I'm telling you gang, you've got to do fun personality radio with this. Don't let SS play all day and night. I would put him on at night, get a local morning jock, and a local afternoon jock, do traffic reports on both AM & PM drives and see how that bills for now. I believe that the reason that WLSQ showed on the radar in Knoxville ratings wasn't just because of the music. It was the whole package they presented it nostalgically as it was 30+ years ago. That's why it showed up, it was exciting for boomers and maybe ear candy to the 30 somethings. It was fun! I thought that right before the change to Jack FM the summer of 2005 Oldies 95.7 & 106.7 were sounding fun. They were getting out that summer and doing things, car shows, blood drives. I was at their SeaDoo give away, all of the jocks were there even their weekend jock! It was sad when they changed in Oct. 2005. I had heard that SC received a ton of calls that day, people were mad. Well this will be an interesting time for the listeners and oldies fans. Let's see what happens.
 
RMarino said:
You want another boring AC format instead of these wonderful '60s classics which have been missing from the airwaves for far too long now?

Clear Channel is not the saving grace of radio... You know what they would have done with 98.7? They would have done one of two things.. It would have been yet another CHR as "98.7 Kiss-FM" with jocks voice-tracked from other markets (probably Atlanta and Tampa) or it would have been another AC as "My 98.7" with voice-tracked jocks from other markets and the worst 300 songs from the '70s, '80s, '90s and today

Yes, actually I WOULD have preferred either of those choices. I've always thought Clear Channel does the best job with CHR formats anyway, and their "Kiss FM" stations are some of the better sounding CHR's in the country. They GET that format and know how to produce it and really sell it. In other words, they don't try to lean older and veer from being a true CHR because they don't have the ability to sell the 18-34 demos. They have enough stations and experience in the CHR format that they are able to group them and sell them to the advertisers as real 18-34 CHR's. Also, with either of these formats you mentioned, they might have been voicetracked, but at least they would have been automated locally, have had good production, good sweepers, and a good jingle package. I'd certainly prefer this over a satellite fed format that should be relegated to small markets and suburban/rural signals. I'm not saying Clear Channel is better to work for, but from a listeners standpoint, I think they do a better job at sounding slicker and also at choosing and researching formats more wisely. You can even look down the road to Chattanooga where both companies own stations, and I just think the CC properties sound better (and more like larger market stations). Just look at the country format. Compare Citadel's WIVK against some of the area Country stations that Clear Channel owns. I would personally say that of the 3 CC countrys that are listenable in much of the area (WUSY Chattanooga, WGSQ Cookeville, and WKSF Asheville), all sound far better and more fun to listen to than WIVK.

But as far as oldies goes; Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against the format or the music at all and I really enjoy it. I simply wish they had done a local format (even if it is jockless and automated or voicetracked). And also, even though the numbers will certainly be better for the oldies format, you still have to recognize that the demos that the format reaches are not what the advertisers want anymore. People who were in their teens and early 20's when these hits were being played are now completely out of the coveted 25-54 demo. Just think, a person who was 20 in 1967 is now 60. And advertisers just do not buy the 55 plus demo. Even though it probably shouldn't be the case, they assume this demo is living on fixed incomes and that they are set in their ways and do not make a lot of purchases of newer products. It's always been that way with the ad agencies. There is nothing wrong with 60's oldies and the music is awesome so it is not personal, but the same thing happened with the previous generations and with formats like Easy Listening and Adult Standards. Those formats were relegated to smaller AM's and surburban signals and finally began to dissapear. Now the same thing is happening with oldies the last 3 or 4 years. It was inevitable as the demos edged older and older. In order to stay in even the very upper end of the 25-54 demo, you now have to go into the early and mid 70's era for hits. So as I said, don't get me wrong. I love the music, but from an advertising standpoint, I really don't see oldies as a wise move for the longhaul anyway. Maybe they will be able to sell it well to smaller, local advertisers, but the big agencies aren't going to be interested. And as far as ratings go, they really won't tell the whole story. When it comes to advertising dollars, I'd say a 1.5 share AC that reaches the 25-54 and 18-34 demos would be able to bill more than an oldies format with a 4 or 5 share that trends 55 plus.

Also, as I said in the earlier post, female targeted formats bill better than male targeted formats as well. Ad people will tell you that on the whole, females make a much larger percentage of spending decisions than males (the only exceptions being cars and homes). That's why most markets have so many AC's, CHR's, and other female leaning formats. And in that area, Knoxville is underserved. There is definately room and ad dollars for another female leaning format or two. (and I would argue that oldies typically leans more male in most studies). It just seems like Citadel Knoxville, is not interested in trying a female targeted format on any of their signals even if there is a market for it. This doesn't seem to be the case with Citadel as whole, but it is the case with their Knoxville cluster. Personally, I think both Journal and South Central do a better job with choosing formats and with the way they manage their local clusters in the Knoxville market. I still say that if we had ended up with Clear Channel instead of Citadel in the market (along with S. Central and Journal), it would have been a much more creative and fun radio market.

Anyway, just my two cents worth and some random thoughts. And btw, I also used to work in radio too, but am now purely a listener and fan and that is ususally the standpoint that I am looking at. I didn't work for Clear Channel and am only saying that I like their stations from a listener's standpoint. They may not be great as an employer, but I do admire a lot of their stations as a fan and listener.
 
BRice16 said:
I think Oldies is probably a good choice for the signal and it's best chance to go up in the ratings, even though it was not what we were all expecting. From a financial standpoint, going satellite makes sense, but it doesn't sound very good on a decent-sized market station like 98.7.

I will have to agree with you here. The "All Scott Shannon, all the time" is getting a bit old already. Let's take a look at some other markets which use "True Oldies Channel"

All 12+ numbers since that's all I have:
Chicago WZZN = 3.0-2.9 Tied for 13th place
Peoria WPMJ = 3.9-2.7 11th place
Tampa WJQB = 1.1-1.6 19th place

The numbers are not too impressive. Like I said before, WZZN has local drive time shifts. Meanwhile WJQB's situation is very similiar to WOKI. It's a weaker signal in the market (although it covers the city limits just fine) and they let the satellite run continuously. If nothing changes with WOKI (meaning if they don't try something local) then those are the numbers we can expect (the mid 1's)
 
>> Yes, actually I WOULD have preferred either of those choices. I've always thought Clear Channel does the best job with CHR formats anyway, and their "Kiss FM" stations are some of the better sounding CHR's in the country. They GET that format and know how to produce it and really sell it. In other words, they don't try to lean older and veer from being a true CHR because they don't have the ability to sell the 18-34 demos.<<

We already have an 18-34 CHR... WKHT Hot 104.5. 98.7 tried competing with them and failed.

>>Also, with either of these formats you mentioned, they might have been voicetracked, but at least they would have been automated locally, have had good production, good sweepers, and a good jingle package.<<

Ah ok, so it's not about a format being local, it's just about whether or not you like the music and production.

>>I'm not saying Clear Channel is better to work for, but from a listeners standpoint, I think they do a better job at sounding slicker and also at choosing and researching formats more wisely. You can even look down the road to Chattanooga where both companies own stations, and I just think the CC properties sound better (and more like larger market stations). Just look at the country format. Compare Citadel's WIVK against some of the area Country stations that Clear Channel owns. I would personally say that of the 3 CC countrys that are listenable in much of the area (WUSY Chattanooga, WGSQ Cookeville, and WKSF Asheville), all sound far better and more fun to listen to than WIVK.<<

I had no problem working for Clear Channel. I think they are a fine company. Funny that you mention their country stations. I spent 8 years working at a CC country station. Every Clear Channel country station sounds EXACTLY the same to me. WIVK sounds fresh to my ears while WUSY, WGSQ, WKSF, and WSIX all sound exactly the same. But I'll admit I probably have some bias in that department since I've been exposed to it more than the average listener.

>>I love the music, but from an advertising standpoint, I really don't see oldies as a wise move for the longhaul anyway. Maybe they will be able to sell it well to smaller, local advertisers, but the big agencies aren't going to be interested. And as far as ratings go, they really won't tell the whole story. When it comes to advertising dollars, I'd say a 1.5 share AC that reaches the 25-54 and 18-34 demos would be able to bill more than an oldies format with a 4 or 5 share that trends 55 plus. <<

Good point, although they probably would have had to struggle to get that 1.5 with an AC format, including hiring local jocks and buying advertising. That's money that Citadel doesn't want to spend. Meanwhile, they put oldies on, have the format exclusive to them, and won't have to spend a dime on marketing.

>>That's why most markets have so many AC's, CHR's, and other female leaning formats. And in that area, Knoxville is underserved. There is definately room and ad dollars for another female leaning format or two.<<

It's not easy to bring down a heritage AC. That's why most markets just have one and they are located near the top of the Arbitron list. Look how long it took someone to compete with WLTW in New York. Finally it's being done, but like I said before, it won't be a cheap battle.

>>and I would argue that oldies typically leans more male in most studies<<

I would not agree, at least for '60s oldies, it's even. I worked for 4 years at an oldies station and our numbers didn't tilt one way or the other. '70s oldies would be different. Pop-leaning '70s (like what WJXB plays on the weekend or what WLSQ played) would lean female. Rock-leaning '70s (like WRQQ Nashville or WSRV Atlanta) would lean male.

>>Personally, I think both Journal and South Central do a better job with choosing formats and with the way they manage their local clusters in the Knoxville market. I still say that if we had ended up with Clear Channel instead of Citadel in the market (along with S. Central and Journal), it would have been a much more creative and fun radio market.

No doubt that Journal and SC do a good job here. Citadel's mission is to protect the cash cow, WIVK. Just like in Chattanooga, CC's mission is to protect WUSY... so what did they do? They put on a classic country station "The Legend." Something tells me that if it were CC that owned these Citadel stations in Knoxville, we'd have "98.7 The Legend" voice-tracked from Chattanooga (assuming Chattanooga's Legend has jocks)

Anyhow, it's not that I disagree with everything you say about what should be done with 98.7, it's just that Clear Channel is not as good as you think it is. I loved working for them, but they are not the saving grace.
 
WELCOME BACK OLDIES! They couldn't keep it down in NYC and they won't here either. Lots of people LOVE this music and it's almost inconceivable to me how any market could go without it. Way to go Citadel Knoxville! Radio people like us may be critical of syndication, but the average oldies listener doesn't care... they'll just be glad to have their music back! Given time there's no reason not to take this station live, at least during drive time and midday. Middays can be really strong with the listen at work crowd. If Citadel knows what they're doing they'll promote the heck out of oldies being back!
 
The more I think about this, the more I believe that the switch was not made with 98.7's best intentions. This was a corporate move to put "True Oldies Channel" on another signal to clear national advertising for themselves. Let's face it, local Citadel management never really cared about making the 98.7 signal succeed.

By the way, I haven't heard any local WOKI sweepers this weekend or even a legal ID.
 
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