Oldies won't ever be dead

[RadioMan203]

With all the current changes there are in the radio landscape I believe oldies will never be totally dead. I do, however, think it will have to take a new direction.

There are still some great oldies stations out there. I pick up WLNG off Long Island - a great station that has been around for years. Paul Sydney has a knack for serving the community and keeping things entertaining. (anybody know how he's doing, as I heard he had some major health issues in the past yesr).

Unfortunately the narrow-minded bean counters don't feel it's an audience worth targeting. I know many 20-somethings and 30-somethings who listen to oldies and I can't believe they would ignore their dollars. Oldies may not be a big leader as it once was, but I think some of the upper management should look at the audience before looking at the bottom line.

My own webcast, CapitalRadio.us, has picked up quite a bit since the CBS-FM / WJMK format changes. I get at least 2 - 3 emails a day thanking me for running the station. While I know it's a far cry from the legendary CBS-FM it proves to me that oldies will never die. There are still people who love them and people who feel strongly about them.

I recently spoke with former CBS-FM program director Joe McCoy when we were interviewed for a News 12 piece (unfortunately they felt "web radio" was not a good play on oldies with the local 300 song oldies machine down the street from them) and I wouldn't be surprised if Joe and a few of the former CBS-FM jocks were hired by some forward-thinking outlet. Only time will tell.

Bill

 

[gr8oldies]

There aren't enough 20 or 30 somethings that like oldies to make any kind of mass audience.


> With all the current changes there are in the radio
> landscape I believe oldies will never be totally dead. I do,
> however, think it will have to take a new direction.
>
> There are still some great oldies stations out there. I pick
> up WLNG off Long Island - a great station that has been
> around for years. Paul Sydney has a knack for serving the
> community and keeping things entertaining. (anybody know how
> he's doing, as I heard he had some major health issues in
> the past yesr).
>
> Unfortunately the narrow-minded bean counters don't feel
> it's an audience worth targeting. I know many 20-somethings
> and 30-somethings who listen to oldies and I can't believe
> they would ignore their dollars. Oldies may not be a big
> leader as it once was, but I think some of the upper
> management should look at the audience before looking at the
> bottom line.
>
> My own webcast, CapitalRadio.us, has picked up quite a bit
> since the CBS-FM / WJMK format changes. I get at least 2 - 3
> emails a day thanking me for running the station. While I
> know it's a far cry from the legendary CBS-FM it proves to
> me that oldies will never die. There are still people who
> love them and people who feel strongly about them.
>
> I recently spoke with former CBS-FM program director Joe
> McCoy when we were interviewed for a News 12 piece
> (unfortunately they felt "web radio" was not a good play on
> oldies with the local 300 song oldies machine down the
> street from them) and I wouldn't be surprised if Joe and a
> few of the former CBS-FM jocks were hired by some
> forward-thinking outlet. Only time will tell.
>
> Bill
>
<P ID="signature">______________
I'll get back to you when I think of a cute quote</P>

 

[RadioMan203]

Unfortunately, you're probably correct. Hey, you can argue that classical music has even less of an audience, but I've seen many of these listener supported public stations do quite well.

I refuse to believe that less people listen to oldies stations than classical music. If this was the case, New York's WQXR, a classical music mainstay, would have been gone a long, long time ago.

I guess if all the Infinity's, Cumulus' and Clear Channel's don't want me to give their advertisers money thet's there business.

Bill



> There aren't enough 20 or 30 somethings that like oldies to
> make any kind of mass audience.
>
>
> > With all the current changes there are in the radio
> > landscape I believe oldies will never be totally dead. I
> do,
> > however, think it will have to take a new direction.
> >
> > There are still some great oldies stations out there. I
> pick
> > up WLNG off Long Island - a great station that has been
> > around for years. Paul Sydney has a knack for serving the
> > community and keeping things entertaining. (anybody know
> how
> > he's doing, as I heard he had some major health issues in
> > the past yesr).
> >
> > Unfortunately the narrow-minded bean counters don't feel
> > it's an audience worth targeting. I know many
> 20-somethings
> > and 30-somethings who listen to oldies and I can't believe
>
> > they would ignore their dollars. Oldies may not be a big
> > leader as it once was, but I think some of the upper
> > management should look at the audience before looking at
> the
> > bottom line.
> >
> > My own webcast, CapitalRadio.us, has picked up quite a bit
>
> > since the CBS-FM / WJMK format changes. I get at least 2 -
> 3
> > emails a day thanking me for running the station. While I
> > know it's a far cry from the legendary CBS-FM it proves to
>
> > me that oldies will never die. There are still people who
> > love them and people who feel strongly about them.
> >
> > I recently spoke with former CBS-FM program director Joe
> > McCoy when we were interviewed for a News 12 piece
> > (unfortunately they felt "web radio" was not a good play
> on
> > oldies with the local 300 song oldies machine down the
> > street from them) and I wouldn't be surprised if Joe and a
>
> > few of the former CBS-FM jocks were hired by some
> > forward-thinking outlet. Only time will tell.
> >
> > Bill
> >
>

 

[cmatthews]

> Unfortunately, you're probably correct. Hey, you can argue
> that classical music has even less of an audience, but I've
> seen many of these listener supported public stations do
> quite well.
>
> I refuse to believe that less people listen to oldies
> stations than classical music. If this was the case, New
> York's WQXR, a classical music mainstay, would have been
> gone a long, long time ago.
>
> I guess if all the Infinity's, Cumulus' and Clear Channel's
> don't want me to give their advertisers money thet's there
> business.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> > There aren't enough 20 or 30 somethings that like oldies
> to
> > make any kind of mass audience.
> >
> >
> > > With all the current changes there are in the radio
> > > landscape I believe oldies will never be totally dead. I
>
> > do,
> > > however, think it will have to take a new direction.
> > >
> > > There are still some great oldies stations out there. I
> > pick
> > > up WLNG off Long Island - a great station that has been
> > > around for years. Paul Sydney has a knack for serving
> the
> > > community and keeping things entertaining. (anybody know
>
> > how
> > > he's doing, as I heard he had some major health issues
> in
> > > the past yesr).
> > >
> > > Unfortunately the narrow-minded bean counters don't feel
>
> > > it's an audience worth targeting. I know many
> > 20-somethings
> > > and 30-somethings who listen to oldies and I can't
> believe
> >
> > > they would ignore their dollars. Oldies may not be a big
>
> > > leader as it once was, but I think some of the upper
> > > management should look at the audience before looking at
>
> > the
> > > bottom line.
> > >
> > > My own webcast, CapitalRadio.us, has picked up quite a
> bit
> >
> > > since the CBS-FM / WJMK format changes. I get at least 2
> -
> > 3
> > > emails a day thanking me for running the station. While
> I
> > > know it's a far cry from the legendary CBS-FM it proves
> to
> >
> > > me that oldies will never die. There are still people
> who
> > > love them and people who feel strongly about them.
> > >
> > > I recently spoke with former CBS-FM program director Joe
>
> > > McCoy when we were interviewed for a News 12 piece
> > > (unfortunately they felt "web radio" was not a good play
>
> > on
> > > oldies with the local 300 song oldies machine down the
> > > street from them) and I wouldn't be surprised if Joe and
> a
> >
> > > few of the former CBS-FM jocks were hired by some
> > > forward-thinking outlet. Only time will tell.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> >
>


I think Oldies will have a new life with HD. With the ability to offer multiple formats/channels of the main, the radio landscape will soon be changing once again. HD radio's will be offered by automakers, so it will be accessible to the masses. One question I have...are the split off channels able to be rated by Arbitron?<P ID="signature">______________
Chuck Matthews Productions
www.KillerImaging.com
http://chuckmatthews1.voice123.com/</P>

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

Although I think it might backfire, I expect that those stations still doing oldies a year or two from now will have eliminated pre-1975 hits and focus on hits recorded between 1975 and 1990, especially those that test well with "soccer moms", to keep the format's appeal squarely focused on women between 25 and 54---the prime advertising demographic in America today and the only one many advertisers care about.

 

[radionut987]

> Although I think it might backfire, I expect that those
> stations still doing oldies a year or two from now will have
> eliminated pre-1975 hits and focus on hits recorded between
> 1975 and 1990, especially those that test well with "soccer
> moms", to keep the format's appeal squarely focused on women
> between 25 and 54---the prime advertising demographic in
> America today and the only one many advertisers care about.

That's partly why radio is in such sad shape today. It's all about that 25-54 demo. And about the money, too.
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by radionut987 on 07/01/05 02:29 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[cmatthews]

> Although I think it might backfire, I expect that those
> stations still doing oldies a year or two from now will have
> eliminated pre-1975 hits and focus on hits recorded between
> 1975 and 1990, especially those that test well with "soccer
> moms", to keep the format's appeal squarely focused on women
> between 25 and 54---the prime advertising demographic in
> America today and the only one many advertisers care about.
>

1975-1990? That's called "JACK".

Say what you will. Say I'm wrong...25-54 is old news. 35-64 is the new 25-54. SLOWLY media buyers and sales are realizing this fact. Programmers have known it for years. CC Chicago VP Programming (can't think of his name) was even quoted saying this very thing in regards to WRLL.<P ID="signature">______________
Chuck Matthews Productions
www.KillerImaging.com
http://chuckmatthews1.voice123.com/</P>

 

[clichemoth]

> I think Oldies will have a new life with HD. With the
> ability to offer multiple formats/channels of the main, the
> radio landscape will soon be changing once again. HD radio's
> will be offered by automakers, so it will be accessible to
> the masses. One question I have...are the split off channels
> able to be rated by Arbitron?
>

Why wouldn't they be? Presumably a new generation of PPMs would include the ability to differentiate between split feeds, and they'd show up in the diaries as long as people recorded them properly (ie writing WCBS2 instead of just WCBS).

 

[Oldbones]

> I think Oldies will have a new life with HD. With the
> ability to offer multiple formats/channels of the main, the
> radio landscape will soon be changing once again. HD radio's
> will be offered by automakers, so it will be accessible to
> the masses.

Assuming we live long enough to see HD radio. Outside of the industry no one even knows what it is.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

> Assuming we live long enough to see HD radio.

Or for us "commoners" to be able to afford it.

 

[OldiesCat]

not gonna happen

sorry, Joseph- but, what would be the point? Then, all you're doing is what
CBS-FM and others have already done. That REALLY won't be Oldies or anything even close to it.

It took about the past 5 years for Oldies stations to start to get a clue and get off the 50s and old-sounding 60s music- another 10 years of music shaved off in only a year or two doesn't make sense.

I'll repeat what may happen: the biggies (Cox, CC, Infinity) will be out of the Oldies business in the next couple of years and more mid/small-size groups will take it on, less effected by the 25-54 blindness and Wall Street pressure. They'll be OK having an audience that's mostly 45+ and they'll have more patience to develop sales "relationships" and use their Oldies stations for more local and direct accounts. It will still be a 1964-1975 (or close to that) music era (with a few of the right pre-64 and a few late 70's and early 80's).

> Although I think it might backfire, I expect that those
> stations still doing oldies a year or two from now will have
> eliminated pre-1975 hits and focus on hits recorded between
> 1975 and 1990, especially those that test well with "soccer
> moms", to keep the format's appeal squarely focused on women
> between 25 and 54---the prime advertising demographic in
> America today and the only one many advertisers care about.
>

 

[OldiesCat]

oldies demos

Agreed.

Here's another thing that's happening with regard to demo (and this could be a GOOD thing for oldies): it's been recently reported that 25-54 buys are down and it seems there's a shift going on to 18-49. That may actually help upper demos, FINALLY putting some focus on 35-64.

With regard to WRLL, their target demo isn't 35-64-- that's way too young for them. I don't know what their sales target is but their music focus would appeal most to those 60+. Do the math and it's pretty clear.

>
> 1975-1990? That's called "JACK".
>
> Say what you will. Say I'm wrong...25-54 is old news. 35-64
> is the new 25-54. SLOWLY media buyers and sales are
> realizing this fact. Programmers have known it for years. CC
> Chicago VP Programming (can't think of his name) was even
> quoted saying this very thing in regards to WRLL.
>

 

[Chuck]

> > Assuming we live long enough to see HD radio.
>
> Or for us "commoners" to be able to afford it.
>
For lots of Oldies stations, many of them fairly low power - Class A FM or local AM's, IBOC (HD Radio) creates more problems than it solves.

A digital system that causes lots of interference to adjacent channels, is not a very good neighbor. Many smaller stations stand a good chance of having their usable coverage area greatly reduced, if neighboring higher power stations go HD.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[bigwoody]

Re: not gonna happen

> I'll repeat what may happen: the biggies (Cox, CC,
> Infinity) will be out of the Oldies business in the next
> couple of years and more mid/small-size groups will take it
> on, less effected by the 25-54 blindness and Wall Street
> pressure. They'll be OK having an audience that's mostly
> 45+ and they'll have more patience to develop sales
> "relationships" and use their Oldies stations for more local
> and direct accounts. It will still be a 1964-1975 (or close
> to that) music era (with a few of the right pre-64 and a few
> late 70's and early 80's).
>


I agree with the above.

 

[fredflintstone]

Depends on how you define oldies

If by "Oldies," you mean music from about 10 to 40 years - music from when people in the money demos were young - then, yes, there will always be oldies.

If by "Oldies," you mean popular music from the late 50's, 60's and 70's, then Oldies dies with the people who grew up with that music. Early rock era music goes the way of swing era music, big band music, jazz age music and ragtime music. When was the last time you heard Miller, Goodman, or the Dorsey brothers on the radio?

 

[TheFonz]

Re: Depends on how you define oldies

> [If by "Oldies," you mean popular music from the late 50's,
> 60's and 70's, then Oldies dies with the people who grew up
> with that music. Early rock era music goes the way of swing
> era music, big band music, jazz age music and ragtime music.
> When was the last time you heard Miller, Goodman, or the
> Dorsey brothers on the radio?]



So what does that mean for the future of music radio? Like network TV, will commercial radio continue programming to a diminishing "choice demo". And will satellite radio attract everyone else, as cable/satellite TV has done?

 

[fredflintstone]

Re: Depends on how you define oldies

Yes, as long as commercial radio remains an advertiser-supported medium, it will continue to program to the listeners advertisers want to reach. Just like broadcast TV. Just like cable/satellite TV. They program to "choice demos," too. Notice how the time frame of the shows on TV Land and Nick at Nite keeps creeping forward (just lke music radio).


>
>
>
> So what does that mean for the future of music radio? Like
> network TV, will commercial radio continue programming to a
> diminishing "choice demo". And will satellite radio attract
> everyone else, as cable/satellite TV has done?
>

 

[TheFonz]

Re: Depends on how you define oldies

There are only about 6 or 7 major commercial TV networks, but there are 22 commercial radio stations on my dial. Today's twenty-somethings don't listen to commercial radio. As that "choice demo" shrinks (both in age and in numbers), how can all 22 stations survive? Won't 75% of them be playing the same music?




> Yes, as long as commercial radio remains an
> advertiser-supported medium, it will continue to program to
> the listeners advertisers want to reach. Just like
> broadcast TV. Just like cable/satellite TV. They program
> to "choice demos," too. Notice how the time frame of the
> shows on TV Land and Nick at Nite keeps creeping forward
> (just lke music radio).
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > So what does that mean for the future of music radio?
> Like
> > network TV, will commercial radio continue programming to
> a
> > diminishing "choice demo". And will satellite radio
> attract
> > everyone else, as cable/satellite TV has done?
> >
>

 

[radiorobert]

How about 1965-1985??? 35-64.

People who are in their 30's today were teens in the 80's, and people who are in their 40's thru early 50's today were in their 20's thru the mid to late 80's. No matter what, in the next few years, most oldies stations will have some 80's songs in their playlists. 90's? No. But 80's, yes.

Then, in the next 10-15 years I forsee the 60's being dropped altogeather and maybe then a few 90's tunes will start to be picked up.

On a personal note, it saddens me as a twenty something that people born between 1940 and 1965 are automatically the beloved class of people today. Pretty soon were all going to have to bow down to this age braket in all entertainment and culture. They, however, were pandered heavily to when they were in their 20's, but not us.

Notice how the new 25-54 is more heavily disregarded, but those who used to be are still 'special'. I'll bet not even the 35-64's before our time where p-andered to this heavily. Wow.

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

Clichemoth commented:

> Presumably a new generation of PPMs
> would include the ability to differentiate between split
> feeds, and they'd show up in the diaries as long as people
> recorded them properly (ie writing WCBS2 instead of just
> WCBS).

Even writing in "WCBS2" might cause problems---could the person end up being credited not with listening to a split feed of WCBS-FM, but with watching the CBS-owned television station in New York City, which happens to broadcast on Channel 2 and is branded "CBS-2"??